786 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...

It's off topic in regard that is continuely prompted by an out of universe character and the majority of discussion was about said character.

I try to keep relevant examples. Both games done by bioware. Seclusion is very similar to the circle. 

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

You have a gross simplification of the issue in my eye.

Why make it complicated? You are either a carring person or an as$. I personally don't care to which degree the as$holness goes. 

Ignoring 90% of the facts merely to suit your view isn't an effective way to wage an agrument in my eye.

That said complicated subjects should remain complicated, simplification in this case leads creedence to the agrument that there is an actual comparision between these two entities and besides in the loosest of senses, in so far that they both have templar orders there is little in common with the Chantry Templars and Imperium.

Finally; I wouldn't view myself as overly caring considering i view the mage rebellion as something to be crushed utterly, their warleaders executed and surviving enchanters imprisioned until the circles reformed. I propose a compromise situation because any other outcome is either unlikely or isn't viable.

As for being an ass? Well that's debatable i am firm in my own belief and conviction.

Make of that what you will.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. Based on your logic, why should the A-Y life take priority over their? If life some be about being cin comfert and doing what ever you want, would not people who want to do so want anyone who can cut there lives short because of an illness be locked away?

On a serious note, the fact an A-Y is drawn to kill means it better to teach them to have self control in an environment where mistakes won't happen.

2.No, we have a clear understanding hoe strong she is. And she will not be stronger for a while.

3.How is she wanting to sleep with Shepard being suicidal? That would kill the only person who can stop her due to being unable to control. It's not suicidal at all.

5. How does that logic work? They never forced her to be a serial killer.

6. Her motive is to stay alive long enough to get to her next feeding.

1) Exactly, and they would be right! BUT so is Morinth in the situation she was put into. You get what you give. 

2) Your interpritation of the amount of lore that was given on Morinth up until that point ( no meta-gaming )

3) Olol.. If she wanted to kill Shepard she would've done it right there in her appartement right after she killed Samara. Shepard - no armor, no weapons, biotics inferior. She would easily crush him/her with her biotics and be done with it. But nope, instead she asks to help on a freaking suicide mission. 

5) No, but they never gave her the proper freedom, and thus there is no counter weight for her to consider not becoming one. 

6) Which would involve just walking on Shepard after Samara would be dead and living her life how she wants to, There is absolutely nothing Shepard would be able to do to stop her from just turning around and leaving. 

1. No she is not right. Had she left on her own and live a peaceful life with out harming anyone, then I would be empathetic. But she went full serial killer with a mile wide death count all over the galexy. Sorry, but she is clearly wrong.

2.Arn't you doing the same as well? A "you'll never know, maybe" is not a sound fact.

3.No, she could not. This is commader Shepard with a cyborg body that punches though wall. If she attack Shepard, Shepard would kill her right them. Even more so because she is weak after the fight with her mother. And shepard is not bioticly inferior.

5. She left on her own to start a killing sper of her own will. If she left to try and harm know one you would have a point. She did not so you don't. She had 400 year of freedom to prove she is not a danger and fail horribly.

6.You mean Shepard the cyberb Supersoldier that can ether:
Chage her into a way, move in super speed to brake her neak, set her on fire, stun her with tech, or over take her with biotics.

Which is easy for Shepard to do being she is weak after fighting her mother to the death.

Sorry, but Shepard would clearly be walking over her body.

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

It's off topic in regard that is continuely prompted by an out of universe character and the majority of discussion was about said character.

I try to keep relevant examples. Both games done by bioware. Seclusion is very similar to the circle. 

Eh i really don't see a comparision personally.

The circles seem like a far cry from the Monestry featured in ME 3.

Namely in the fact that the A-Y were granted a bit more freedom, Were generally admitted into said lifestyle by choice, and apart from having Justicars as a example to Templars you do not have an "abusive" authority figure comparision.

So ultimately in my opinion it wouldn't be relevant but that is my own opinion, And the space vampire really has nothing to do however with the topic of the thread. The subject that prompted her mentioning was going off topic.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

You heard it here first. A slave state is better then a state that make sure people with magic powers learn how to control them, not to turn into monsters and not to misuse them.

It's REALLY not better, it's equal. And as I said I just like shinny spells, so there we go, a little something for me to choose a side. 

No it's not equal, It has ether one side dominate another. That is not equal. iF YOU WANT EQUAL, COMPRIMISE.

[KainD]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ignoring 90% of the facts merely to suit your view isn't an effective way to wage an agrument in my eye.

That said complicated subjects should remain complicated, simplification in this case leads creedence to the agrument that there is an actual comparision between these two entities and besides in the loosest of senses, in so far that they both have templar orders there is little in common with the Chantry Templars and Imperium.

Finally; I wouldn't view myself as overly caring considering i view the mage rebellion as something to be crushed utterly, their warleaders executed and surviving enchanters imprisioned until the circles reformed. I propose a compromise situation because any other outcome is either unlikely or isn't viable.

As for being an ass? Well that's debatable i am firm in my own belief and conviction.

Make of that what you will.

LoL, I wasn't reffering to you specifically. But ok. 

Comparison is very simple, both parties are supremacists, both parties consider the well being of MAGES/mundanes more important than mages/MUNDANES, both parties don't treat all people equal. 

[Master Warder Z_]

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Ignoring 90% of the facts merely to suit your view isn't an effective way to wage an agrument in my eye.

That said complicated subjects should remain complicated, simplification in this case leads creedence to the agrument that there is an actual comparision between these two entities and besides in the loosest of senses, in so far that they both have templar orders there is little in common with the Chantry Templars and Imperium.

Finally; I wouldn't view myself as overly caring considering i view the mage rebellion as something to be crushed utterly, their warleaders executed and surviving enchanters imprisioned until the circles reformed. I propose a compromise situation because any other outcome is either unlikely or isn't viable.

As for being an ass? Well that's debatable i am firm in my own belief and conviction.

Make of that what you will.

LoL, I wasn't reffering to you specifically. But ok. 

Comparison is very simple, both parties are supremacists, both parties consider the well being of MAGES/mundanes more important than mages/MUNDANES, both parties don't treat all people equal. 

I would advise direction then, given that your statement was broad in its reference and bound to cause confusion.

As i said 90% i didn't say that there wasn't some sliver of creedence to the agrument only that it was a gross simplification.

And given that once you go into an actual indepth comparision? Well supporting the Templars over the imperium makes my pragmatic self look like a saint.

Modifié par Master Warder Z , 03 décembre 2013 - 05:31 .

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

KainD wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

It's off topic in regard that is continuely prompted by an out of universe character and the majority of discussion was about said character.

I try to keep relevant examples. Both games done by bioware. Seclusion is very similar to the circle. 

Eh i really don't see a comparision personally.

The circles seem like a far cry from the Monestry featured in ME 3.

Namely in the fact that the A-Y were granted a bit more freedom, Were generally admitted into said lifestyle by choice, and apart from having Justicars as a example to Templars you do not have an "abusive" authority figure comparision.

So ultimately in my opinion it wouldn't be relevant but that is my own opinion, And the space vampire really has nothing to do however with the topic of the thread. The subject that prompted her mentioning was going off topic.

Well, the circle does have the same freedoms the monestry has before the whole mage rebellion mess. Mage could go any where they want to in the tower like the A-Y's in the monestry.(Except the A-y could not gather together with out supervion.) Both have similar consern being in a way both can turn in monsters, but one was on a social level and the other is an actual one.( The former could also be turn in to an actual monster by the reapers bit that some else.)

They both have the same consern of protecting both sides from them selves and others.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1. No she is not right. Had she left on her own and live a peaceful life with out harming anyone, then I would be empathetic. But she went full serial killer with a mile wide death count all over the galexy. Sorry, but she is clearly wrong.

2.Arn't you doing the same as well? A "you'll never know, maybe" is not a sound fact.

3.No, she could not. This is commader Shepard with a cyborg body that punches though wall. If she attack Shepard, Shepard would kill her right them. Even more so because she is weak after the fight with her mother. And shepard is not bioticly inferior.

5. She left on her own to start a killing sper of her own will. If she left to try and harm know one you would have a point. She did not so you don't. She had 400 year of freedom to prove she is not a danger and fail horribly.

6.You mean Shepard the cyberb Supersoldier that can ether:
Chage her into a way, move in super speed to brake her neak, set her on fire, stun her with tech, or over take her with biotics.

Which is easy for Shepard to do being she is weak after fighting her mother to the death.

Sorry, but Shepard would clearly be walking over her body.

1) Ahahha. This one really made me laugh. I am a 16 year old little girl ( by asari year standards ), I have no pasport, no money, police and justicars want me dead, I move around with smuglers and deal with underground world. Let's live a peaceful life! 
Even if she could live a peaceful life, why would she? Why would she care for other people? 

2) Let's drop this one - it's more of an opinion. 

3) Get off your high horse PLEASE. I know the opinion of the majority is not the criteria for truth, but if it holds any meaning to you personally - SO many people understand that Samara is stronger than Shepard in a 1v1, and there were discussions about squadmate power level. And Morinth is her equal. You just don't compare, the level of Morinth biotic power would crush Shepard, cyborg or not. 

5) Look 1.

6) Look 3.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

D.Kain your continued defense of a thoroughly debased sex vampire is always entertaining.

With the helpful side effect of demolishing any point you try to argue.

[KainD]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain your continued defense of a thoroughly debased sex vampire is always entertaining.

With the helpful side effect of demolishing any point you try to argue.

Yeah, you seem to be enjoying yourself. 

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1. No she is not right. Had she left on her own and live a peaceful life with out harming anyone, then I would be empathetic. But she went full serial killer with a mile wide death count all over the galexy. Sorry, but she is clearly wrong.

2.Arn't you doing the same as well? A "you'll never know, maybe" is not a sound fact.

3.No, she could not. This is commader Shepard with a cyborg body that punches though wall. If she attack Shepard, Shepard would kill her right them. Even more so because she is weak after the fight with her mother. And shepard is not bioticly inferior.

5. She left on her own to start a killing sper of her own will. If she left to try and harm know one you would have a point. She did not so you don't. She had 400 year of freedom to prove she is not a danger and fail horribly.

6.You mean Shepard the cyberb Supersoldier that can ether:
Chage her into a way, move in super speed to brake her neak, set her on fire, stun her with tech, or over take her with biotics.

Which is easy for Shepard to do being she is weak after fighting her mother to the death.

Sorry, but Shepard would clearly be walking over her body.

1) Ahahha. This one really made me laugh. I am a 16 year old little girl ( by asari year standards ), I have no pasport, no money, police and justicars want me dead, I move around with smuglers and deal with underground world. Let's live a peaceful life! 
Even if she could live a peaceful life, why would she? Why would she care for other people? 

2) Let's drop this one - it's more of an opinion. 

3) Get off your high horse PLEASE. I know the opinion of the majority is not the criteria for truth, but if it holds any meaning to you personally - SO many people understand that Samara is stronger than Shepard in a 1v1, and there were discussions about squadmate power level. And Morinth is her equal. You just don't compare, the level of Morinth biotic power would crush Shepard, cyborg or not. 

5) Look 1.

6) Look 3.

1.Which is the point to bring her to a monistary and make sure she can control herself. Her going around killing others is just prove them right to put A-Y's into monistaries. And Yes, she can live a peaceful life. Just go to a farming colony far away from the treks of the galexy.

3. This is not being on a high horse this is a fact. This is commander Shepard. A perso who could just:
Chage her into a wall, move in super speed to brake her neak, set her on fire, stun her with tech, or over take her with biotics.
 And No Samara is not strong 1 on 1.

And No Morniths biotics would crush Shepard. We fight collectors with stronger biotics then her. We face hordes of Krogan Bezerks and battle masters, we kill maws on foot, armies of Geth, face collonies of rachni, we killed beings that think they are goods ..

And some how you think one Asari can take Shepard down just because she can mind control...Which does not even work on Shepard.
Lol, This is not to thing to argue about. Shepard would be walking over her body.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...

1.Which is the point to bring her to a monistary and make sure she can control herself. Her going around killing others is just prove them right to put A-Y's into monistaries. And Yes, she can live a peaceful life. Just go to a farming colony far away from the treks of the galexy.

2) Lol, This is not to thing to argue about. Shepard would be walking over her body.

1) The point is - she wanted freedom, and would rather die than live in the monistary. Point is she was given a choice between death and something worse than death and all because she was born a specific way. She has no reason to care for anyone or live a peaceful life after that. 

2) You are ignorant of Shepard capabilities. If you don't learn to segregate gameplay from the lore, you will never understand the story fully. 

Modifié par KainD, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Br3admax]

1. That's the worst reasoning for being a serial killer that I have ever heard. And how is being in a monastery worse than death? How is Morinth proving herself worthy of that freedom by murdering people?

2. Real talk, Shepard is comparable to an asari in terms of biotic power. Morninth may be stronger, but in a fight, Shepard would easily beat just about anyone. Biotics or no.

Modifié par Br3ad, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:53 .

[KainD]

Br3ad wrote...

1. That's the worst reasoning for being a serial killer that I have ever heard. And how is being in a monastery worse than death? How is Morinth proving herself worthy of that freedom by murdering people?

2. Real talk, Shepard is comparable to an asari in terms of biotic power. Morninth may be stronger, but in a fight, Shepard would easily beat just about anyone. Biotics or no.

1) She is worthy of freedom by being born. Justicars made the first offensive step - imprisoned her before she became a killer. Freedom might not mean much for you but it did for Morinth, SHE thought it was worse than death to live in seclusion. 

2) No, Shepard is a good tactician, a charismatic leader, someone who never gives up, he/she has all those awesome qualities and many more, he/she is the main protagonist, but he/she is not the strongest fighter. Half of Shepards ME2 crew are stronger than Shepard in combat. ( Lore wise ) 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

KainD wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

1. That's the worst reasoning for being a serial killer that I have ever heard. And how is being in a monastery worse than death? How is Morinth proving herself worthy of that freedom by murdering people?

2. Real talk, Shepard is comparable to an asari in terms of biotic power. Morninth may be stronger, but in a fight, Shepard would easily beat just about anyone. Biotics or no.

1) She is worthy of freedom by being born. Justicars made the first offensive step - imprisoned her before she became a killer. Freedom might not mean much for you but it did for Morinth, SHE thought it was worse than death to live in seclusion. 

Which gives her exactly zero right to sex murder oodles of people over several centuries.

[KainD]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Which gives her exactly zero right to sex murder oodles of people over several centuries.

Why is she supposed to care? 

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

1.Which is the point to bring her to a monistary and make sure she can control herself. Her going around killing others is just prove them right to put A-Y's into monistaries. And Yes, she can live a peaceful life. Just go to a farming colony far away from the treks of the galexy.

2) Lol, This is not to thing to argue about. Shepard would be walking over her body.

1) The point is - she wanted freedom, and would rather die than live in the monistary. Point is she was given a choice between death and something worse than death and all because she was born a specific way. She has no reason to care for anyone or live a peaceful life after that. 

2) You are ignorant of Shepard capabilities. If you don't learn to segregate gameplay from the lore, you will never understand the story fully. 

1.That not how it works. It not ok to run away and kill a mountain of people and say"I did this because they won't let me live as a want as a kid." It's one thing to not want to live at a monostray but to do so and kill others just for personal enjoyment  is wrong and proves their point.
2. Shepard punch two guys  who wearing full armor out with his /her bare fist regualess of class.  It 's not a  segregation of game play issue.  It a lore fact that Shepard is a force to reckon with which most people die if the face them on because Shepard is a fantastic fighter.
 Shepard will, with no question of fact, walk over Morniths corpes.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:12 .

[TEWR]

I like how the original topic is now lost and forlorn as the ME topic has taken control.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

KainD wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Which gives her exactly zero right to sex murder oodles of people over several centuries.

Why is she supposed to care? 

Because "Bad things happened to me" does not excuse murderous psychopathy?

Because "Lolz their deaths make me stronger" is not an acceptable defense or justification?

Of course you'll brush all that off with your usual tripe so it doesn't really matter and she dies either way so I'm content.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:08 .

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

1. That's the worst reasoning for being a serial killer that I have ever heard. And how is being in a monastery worse than death? How is Morinth proving herself worthy of that freedom by murdering people?

2. Real talk, Shepard is comparable to an asari in terms of biotic power. Morninth may be stronger, but in a fight, Shepard would easily beat just about anyone. Biotics or no.

1) She is worthy of freedom by being born. Justicars made the first offensive step - imprisoned her before she became a killer. Freedom might not mean much for you but it did for Morinth, SHE thought it was worse than death to live in seclusion. 

2) No, Shepard is a good tactician, a charismatic leader, someone who never gives up, he/she has all those awesome qualities and many more, he/she is the main protagonist, but he/she is not the strongest fighter. Half of Shepards ME2 crew are stronger than Shepard in combat. ( Lore wise ) 

1.So it make sense she because a serial killer because they thought their was a chance she could become one. So it's their fault  she is proving them right?
2. Wrong, Lore wise Shapard is a fantastic fighter reguardless to class. The fact there is a mission dlc which Shepard ripes through guards like they are paper prove it.(Arival).

Modifié par leaguer of one, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
What if it's a templars first day on the job? Hasn't oppressed a single mage, or given a single tranquility, or spilt a single drop of mage blood, nor raised a single fist against any mage at all.

The act of joining in the first place already indicates that they support the oppression of mages.

Would you kill them? What if they went into the order to be with their mage sibling, so that the two could still be close and watch eachothers backs? Still kill them anyway? What about a templar who is looking out for their mage child and keeping them safe? Kill them anyway?

Firstly, I don't believe for a moment that an intelligent person with those goals would join the Templar Order, because their position as a Templar wouldn't give them the power to do any of that. If the order knew that a potential recruit had a mage relative in the local circle, then (if they were smart), they'd either not hire that candidate in the first place, or make sure the two family members were separated by shipping them off to different circles.

Secondly; if that is the case, then they should've defected from the Templar Order when war broke out. Why would they stay in the Templar Order when their reason for joining is now null and void?

Third, in the middle of a goddamn war, why would I stop to question every single Templar to find out if this is the case? And if I did, how would I ever be able to verify their stories?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:13 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Plaintiff wrote...



Third, in the middle of a goddamn war, why would I stop to question every single Templar to find out if this is the case? And if I did, how would I ever be able to verify their stories?

Because it would show a startling subversion of your usual "I must project my Real Life issues onto the Mage/Templar war because Vidya games are truly the best front to fight for true equality." trend.

That won't happen and I'm sure you'll continue to get buttmad about the same things but it makes for a nice fantasy.

[Steelcan]

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Clearly the templar who let Wynne ride on his shoulders and took her away from a soon to be lynch mob was a terrible terrible person

Modifié par Steelcan, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:16 .

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

Would you kill them? What if they went into the order to be with their mage sibling, so that the two could still be close and watch eachothers backs? Still kill them anyway? What about a templar who is looking out for their mage child and keeping them safe? Kill them anyway?

Firstly, I don't believe for a moment that an intelligent person with those goals would join the Templar Order, because their position as a Templar wouldn't give them the power to do any of that. If the order knew that a potential recruit had a mage relative in the local circle, then (if they were smart), they'd either not hire that candidate in the first place, or make sure the two family members were separated by shipping them off to different circles.

Secondly; if that is the case, then they should've defected from the Templar Order when war broke out. Why would they stay in the Templar Order when their reason for joining is now null and void?

Third, in the middle of a goddamn war, why would I stop to question every single Templar to find out if this is the case? And if I did, how would I ever be able to verify their stories?

1. They show that there ae a mountain of templer join just becaus eof those cases and actully doing something for there mage family.

2.Which Templer order, because it's clearly divide now that the war broke out.

3. Because it's you job. Not every templer is on the same side. As Inquistor, it's your job to set things straight, not point everyone with the same brush.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:20 .