786 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Steelcan wrote...

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Hell, One fathered her child.

[KainD]

leaguer of one wrote...
1.That not how it works. It not ok to run away and kill a mountain of people and say"I did this because they won't let me live as a want as a kid." It's one thing to not want to live at a monostray but to do so and kill others just for personal enjoyment  is wrong and proves their point.
2. Shepard punch two guys  who wearing full armor out with his /her bare fist regualess of class.  It 's not a  segregation of game play issue.  It a lore fact that Shepard is a force to reckon with which most people die if the face them on because Shepard is a fantastic fighter.
 Shepard will, with no question of fact, walk over Morniths corpes.

Meh, I just disagree. I really got caught up again, don't want another huge discussion, everything has already been said before.

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Because "Bad things happened to me" does not excuse murderous psychopathy?
Because "Lolz their deaths make me stronger" is not an acceptable defense or justification?
Of course you'll brush all that off with your usual tripe so it doesn't really matter and she dies either way so I'm content.

Yeah I'll brush it off. Lol
And actually yes, her death in ME3 was one of the sadest moments for me personally.

leaguer of one wrote...
1.So it make sense she because a serial killer because they thought their was a chance she could become one. So it's their fault  she is proving them right?
2. Wrong, Lore wise Shapard is a fantastic fighter reguardless to class. The fact there is a mission dlc which Shepard ripes through guards like they are paper prove it.(Arival).

1) Yes. 
2) He is fantastic but he is not the strongest. There are bigger fish out there, and Morinth would be one of them. But let's agree to disagree here. 

Modifié par KainD, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:30 .

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1.That not how it works. It not ok to run away and kill a mountain of people and say"I did this because they won't let me live as a want as a kid." It's one thing to not want to live at a monostray but to do so and kill others just for personal enjoyment  is wrong and proves their point.
2. Shepard punch two guys  who wearing full armor out with his /her bare fist regualess of class.  It 's not a  segregation of game play issue.  It a lore fact that Shepard is a force to reckon with which most people die if the face them on because Shepard is a fantastic fighter.
 Shepard will, with no question of fact, walk over Morniths corpes.

Meh, I just disagree. 

There's nothing to disagree about.

Point 1 is common sense. She  has not right to kill others for personal enjoyment. And If it was a case to prove she should not be held captive, she should not be harming and killing others.

Point 2 was hammering in form day one of othe series. Even more so in ME2. Even is Shepard is a great Tactician , He / she is also a great fighter...A Legendary one. So it's a fact Shepard would be walking over Morniths corpes.

[leaguer of one]

KainD wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1.That not how it works. It not ok to run away and kill a mountain of people and say"I did this because they won't let me live as a want as a kid." It's one thing to not want to live at a monostray but to do so and kill others just for personal enjoyment  is wrong and proves their point.
2. Shepard punch two guys  who wearing full armor out with his /her bare fist regualess of class.  It 's not a  segregation of game play issue.  It a lore fact that Shepard is a force to reckon with which most people die if the face them on because Shepard is a fantastic fighter.
 Shepard will, with no question of fact, walk over Morniths corpes.

Meh, I just disagree. I really got caught up again, don't want another huge discussion, everything has already been said before.

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
Because "Bad things happened to me" does not excuse murderous psychopathy?
Because "Lolz their deaths make me stronger" is not an acceptable defense or justification?
Of course you'll brush all that off with your usual tripe so it doesn't really matter and she dies either way so I'm content.

Yeah I'll brush it off. Lol
And actually yes, her death in ME3 was one of the sadest moments for me personally.

leaguer of one wrote...
1.So it make sense she because a serial killer because they thought their was a chance she could become one. So it's their fault  she is proving them right?
2. Wrong, Lore wise Shapard is a fantastic fighter reguardless to class. The fact there is a mission dlc which Shepard ripes through guards like they are paper prove it.(Arival).

1) Yes. 
2) He is fantastic but he is not the strongest. There are bigger fish out there, and Morinth would be one of them. But let's agree to disagree here. 

1. Seriously, no that makes no sense.
2. No She is not. It's a fact Shepard would simply killer her and thats that.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:43 .

[Plaintiff]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. They show that there ae a mountain of templer join just becaus eof those cases and actully doing something for there mage family.

When?

2.Which Templer order, because it's clearly divide now that the war broke out.

The regular Templar Order. I'm doubly skeptical of the idea that anyone would have a sympathetic reason for joining the Red Templars.

3. Because it's you job. Not every templer is on the same side. As Inquistor, it's your job to set things straight, not point everyone with the same brush.

No, as Inquisitor its my job to deal with the Veil tears, not to fix the problems of every Sally Sob-Story that crosses my path.

If these Templars joined the order to 'protect' various mage relatives, why the hell are they still in the Templar Order now, when its stated goal is to attack mages?

[Plaintiff]

Steelcan wrote...

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Clearly the templar who let Wynne ride on his shoulders and took her away from a soon to be lynch mob was a terrible terrible person

Wynne certainly does have 'issues' with the Templars. She makes it pretty damn clear in Awakening that her reasoning for wanting to prevent a secession is not because she thinks it's morally wrong, but because she fears the Chantry's retaliation.

When circumstances forced her hand in Asunder, she sided with the rebellious mages.

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. They show that there ae a mountain of templer join just becaus eof those cases and actully doing something for there mage family.

When?

2.Which Templer order, because it's clearly divide now that the war broke out.

The regular Templar Order. I'm doubly skeptical of the idea that anyone would have a sympathetic reason for joining the Red Templars.

3. Because it's you job. Not every templer is on the same side. As Inquistor, it's your job to set things straight, not point everyone with the same brush.

No, as Inquisitor its my job to deal with the Veil tears, not to fix the problems of every Sally Sob-Story that crosses my path.

If these Templars joined the order to 'protect' various mage relatives, why the hell are they still in the Templar Order now, when its stated goal is to attack mages?

1. The templer who wanted to have mages and Templer work together in act 3 joined because his daughter was a mage for one.

2.You're just talking about the red templers?

3. Sorry, but it is your job...Why, because it gets people to help you with the veil and quickly and the most ammount of people possible.

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Clearly the templar who let Wynne ride on his shoulders and took her away from a soon to be lynch mob was a terrible terrible person

Wynne certainly does have 'issues' with the Templars. She makes it pretty damn clear in Awakening that her reasoning for wanting to prevent a secession is not because she thinks it's morally wrong, but because she fears the Chantry's retaliation.

When circumstances forced her hand in Asunder, she sided with the rebellious mages.

1. What happen in Asunders was the fault of the manipulation of a faction of mages. Mages are also at fault as well.

2. The chantry has a right to be conserned.

[Plaintiff]

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Clearly the templar who let Wynne ride on his shoulders and took her away from a soon to be lynch mob was a terrible terrible person

Wynne certainly does have 'issues' with the Templars. She makes it pretty damn clear in Awakening that her reasoning for wanting to prevent a secession is not because she thinks it's morally wrong, but because she fears the Chantry's retaliation.

When circumstances forced her hand in Asunder, she sided with the rebellious mages.

1. What happen in Asunders was the fault of the manipulation of a faction of mages. Mages are also at fault as well.

2. The chantry has a right to be conserned.

That's your opinion. I was just pointing out that Wynne is not 'pro-Chantry' or even a moderate. She made it clear more than once that she wanted the Circle to be independant; she was just afraid of slaughter.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:46 .

[Plaintiff]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. The templer who wanted to have mages and Templer work together in act 3 joined because his daughter was a mage for one.

One isn't a 'mountain'. Thrask's daughter is already dead by Act 3. He didn't join the Templar Order to protect her, he found out she was a mage after he became a Templar.

2.You're just talking about the red templers?

No. This whole thread is about the regular Templars.

3. Sorry, but it is your job...Why, because it gets people to help you with the veil and quickly and the most ammount of people possible.

You still haven't answered my question: If these Templars joined the order to 'protect' various mage relatives, why the hell are they still in the Templar Order now, when its stated goal is to attack mages?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
What if it's a templars first day on the job? Hasn't oppressed a single mage, or given a single tranquility, or spilt a single drop of mage blood, nor raised a single fist against any mage at all.

The act of joining in the first place already indicates that they support the oppression of mages.

Would you kill them? What if they went into the order to be with their mage sibling, so that the two could still be close and watch eachothers backs? Still kill them anyway? What about a templar who is looking out for their mage child and keeping them safe? Kill them anyway?

Firstly, I don't believe for a moment that an intelligent person with those goals would join the Templar Order, because their position as a Templar wouldn't give them the power to do any of that. If the order knew that a potential recruit had a mage relative in the local circle, then (if they were smart), they'd either not hire that candidate in the first place, or make sure the two family members were separated by shipping them off to different circles.

Secondly; if that is the case, then they should've defected from the Templar Order when war broke out. Why would they stay in the Templar Order when their reason for joining is now null and void?

Third, in the middle of a goddamn war, why would I stop to question every single Templar to find out if this is the case? And if I did, how would I ever be able to verify their stories?

I love that you ignore the exsistence of Thrask and Carver just to make your discrimination easier to swallow.

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. The templer who wanted to have mages and Templer work together in act 3 joined because his daughter was a mage for one.

One isn't a 'mountain'. Thrask's daughter is already dead by Act 3. He didn't join the Templar Order to protect her, he found out she was a mage after he became a Templar.

2.You're just talking about the red templers?

No. This whole thread is about the regular Templars.

3. Sorry, but it is your job...Why, because it gets people to help you with the veil and quickly and the most ammount of people possible.

You still haven't answered my question: If these Templars joined the order to 'protect' various mage relatives, why the hell are they still in the Templar Order now, when its stated goal is to attack mages?

1. Where is it state he found out she was a mage after he became a templer? 
2. Then my point stands.
3.Sorry, but that is not the state goal for every order of templer. Remeber, it's divided now. Some are with the chantry, some are rogue, some are red templers and others are with the mages. It not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I love that you ignore the exsistence of Thrask and Carver just to make your discrimination easier to swallow.

Thrask was a Templar before he ever found out his daughter was a mage. If she hadn't been, then he wouldn't have ever questioned his path.

Carver joined the Templars deliberately to hurt his family. Just because he stops short of selling you out specifically doesn't mean he was 'protecting' you in any way.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I love that you ignore the exsistence of Thrask and Carver just to make your discrimination easier to swallow.

Thrask was a Templar before he ever found out his daughter was a mage. If she hadn't been, then he wouldn't have ever questioned his path.

Carver joined the Templars deliberately to hurt his family. Just because he stops short of selling you out specifically doesn't mean he was 'protecting' you in any way.

What, you mean after you basically undercut him at every turn? Have him walk in your shadow and you expect him not to try and follow his own path? Maybe do something to try and bring in a steady income for your family and probably watch your back to make sure the templars don't come after you while you go galavanting in the deep roads for treasure you might not even find? Sounds like he was trying to look out for what was best while you were out trying to make a name for yourself.

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I like how even some Circle mages who are the ones "being oppressed" get along with Templars, by Wynne's account she didn't have any issues with them, Greagor and Irving get along well enough to keep things running.

The only time we see an issue between templars and mages who aren't both being led by lunatics is with Cullen who was just tortured.

Clearly the templar who let Wynne ride on his shoulders and took her away from a soon to be lynch mob was a terrible terrible person

Wynne certainly does have 'issues' with the Templars. She makes it pretty damn clear in Awakening that her reasoning for wanting to prevent a secession is not because she thinks it's morally wrong, but because she fears the Chantry's retaliation.

When circumstances forced her hand in Asunder, she sided with the rebellious mages.

1. What happen in Asunders was the fault of the manipulation of a faction of mages. Mages are also at fault as well.

2. The chantry has a right to be conserned.

That's your opinion. I was just pointing out that Wynne is not 'pro-Chantry' or even a moderate. She made it clear more than once that she wanted the Circle to be independant; she was just afraid of slaughter.

Wait....Your are saying that a person who argued with someone who use to live in a chantry about how to follow a religion properly is not pro-chantry?

[Plaintiff]

leaguer of one wrote...
1. Where is it state he found out she was a mage after he became a templer?

Becoming a templar takes many years of training. Thrask likely joined the order before his daghter was even born.

2. Then my point stands.

What point is that supposed to be?

3.Sorry, but that is not the state goal for every order of templer. Remeber, it's divided now. Some are with the chantry, some are rogue, some are red templers and others are with the mages. It not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

If they're with the mages, then they're not templars anymore, are they.

[TEWR]

If they're with the mages, then they're not templars anymore, are they

Arguable as to what makes one truly a Templar.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would argue a mage who devotes themselves to the spirit tree in the spirit sheild and mana drain trees would be pretty much a templar. And if they're loyal to their fellow templars in subduing mages, then they're pretty much templars in everything but lyrium.

Templars aren't just sword and shield wielding guys. It's a cause, one that is suppose to stand on pillars of defending the weak and protecting those born differently from the outside world and from themselves. Templars can be warriors, rouges and probably mages if they so choose to use their talents for their cause.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 03 décembre 2013 - 07:14 .

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
1. Where is it state he found out she was a mage after he became a templer?

Becoming a templar takes many years of training. Thrask likely joined the order before his daghter was even born.

2. Then my point stands.

What point is that supposed to be?

3.Sorry, but that is not the state goal for every order of templer. Remeber, it's divided now. Some are with the chantry, some are rogue, some are red templers and others are with the mages. It not as black and white as you are making it out to be.

If they're with the mages, then they're not templars anymore, are they.

1.A good point but nothing is on had one way or another.
2.Which Templer order, because it's clearly divide now that the war broke out.
3.Not true. They are still Templers but not of the same order like how Tevinter has templers.

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
What, you mean after you basically undercut him at every turn?

My Hawkes never did that. Carver just has an incredible inferiority complex.

Have him walk in your shadow and you expect him not to try and follow his own path?

It's also not Hawke's fault that people admire him while ignoring Carver. Or that they like Hawke and dislike Carver. Carver brings their dislike on himself by being a childish sulk about literally everything.

Carver had many 'paths' he could've followed, he deliberately chose the one that he knew would most hurt his family.

Maybe do something to try and bring in a steady income for your family

Apprentice to a merchant, learn a trade, take up bodyguard work, do manual labour down at the docks. 

and probably watch your back to make sure the templars don't come after you while you go galavanting in the deep roads for treasure you might not even find?

Is that what he's doing when he brings them to our house? When he sides against me in Act 3? Watching my back? Well he's doing a bang-up job!

If that was his plan all along, why didn't he wait for Hawke to return so he could disclose that to him? Or hell, even to his mother, who begged him not to go?

Sounds like he was trying to look out for what was best while you were out trying to make a name for yourself.

Right, and Carver's not concerned with making a name for himself at all. Except, oh wait, he's constantly whining about how Hawke is well-known and popular, while his own local fame only derives from being Hawke's younger brother. He complains about not having any friends, but when people try to reach out to him, he's rude and aggresive, and then he wonders why nobody likes him.

The only time Carver does anything to indicate that he cares about Hawke is when he sides with him during the final confrontation; but if he's with the Templars, then he already went into battle not half an hour earlier, knowing full well that he might be called upon to kill his brother.

[CynicalShep]

KainD wrote...

Yeah I'll brush it off. Lol
And actually yes, her death in ME3 was one of the sadest moments for me personally.

I'll bet you think a certain controversial German leader was misunderstood, too.

[CynicalShep]

Plaintiff wrote...

It's also not Hawke's fault that people admire him while ignoring Carver. Or that they like Hawke and dislike Carver. Carver brings their dislike on himself by being a childish sulk about literally everything.

Kind of like Anders?

[Plaintiff]

CynicalShep wrote...

KainD wrote...

Yeah I'll brush it off. Lol
And actually yes, her death in ME3 was one of the sadest moments for me personally.

I'll bet you think a certain controversial German leader was misunderstood, too.

Otto the Red?

[The Hierophant]

CynicalShep wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

It's also not Hawke's fault that people admire him while ignoring Carver. Or that they like Hawke and dislike Carver. Carver brings their dislike on himself by being a childish sulk about literally everything.

Kind of like Anders?

Hey give Carver a break. At least he's not a cannibal.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm curious about something, so I ask a moment of your time.

Do the people who hate templars think someone is a bad person for loving a templar?