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Would You Have Liked To See An All-Out Attack On A Reaper Capital Ship?


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#1
ElSuperGecko

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OK, so we got the Rannoch Reaper battle.  And saw the mother of all thresher maws take down another one.  And the missile attack on the Destroyer on Priority Earth.  But doesn't an all-out space battle with a Reaper capital ship seem like a real missed opportunity?

I remember playing Lucasart's X-Wing back in the day. The first one.  Years ago. 

Within the game, Star Destroyers were (naturally) built up as nearly indestructible and not to be messed with. But in the second campaign... you get to launch an attack on one and take one down.

It wasn't a single mission. It was a series of interconnected missions which played out in almost a narrative style.
The Intrepid is stranded in an isolated system, the Alliance (in one mission) manages to intercept information on this. The follow up missions have you intercept a repair task force, destroy the Intrepid's escort ships before finally waging an final assault on the crippled vessel itself.

And it was awesome.  Abso-frickin-lutely AWESOME.

This is a 20 year old game, and it was one of the first to make me feel like I was actually taking part in an on going campaign rather than just playing a video game. 

I would have loved to have seen something similar take place with a full-scale attack on a Reaper capital ship (or even Harbinger itself). Not a "video-gamey" boss fight, or even a boss mission, but am actual campaign. Almost a Suicide Mission version #2.

1:  Maybe we do a mission where we infiltrate a Cerberus base and recover the schematics/remains/reversed engineered designs for the Klendagon super weapon (which we know TIM recovered), and recover various Cerberus research projects that are used to create a one-shot weapon capable of disabling an active Reaper.

2:  We follow this up with a statement from Hackett that he his science teams need Reaper intel for the Crucible's design - schematics, deployment patterns, anything that will help devise a targetting solution.  The lead researcher informs us that the only way we'll get the necessary data is from an active Reaper, so we have to lure a Sovereign-class Reaper into a trap.

3:  We're assigned to help evacuate a colony that is under attack by a single Reaper using the Normandy as bait, and the Klendagon weapon is deployed in a nearby system.  The Normandy flees the planet, with the Reaper in close pursuit.  We arrive at the isolated system, and the Klendagon weapon fires, glancing and disabling the Reaper, and we then take the battle to the Reaper itself.

4:  The Alliance forces engage the Reaper's defences from distance while several Alliance strike teams shuttle to the Reaper's hull itself to initiate a boarding action.  We fight the Reaper forces across it's hull - maybe even utilising zero-G combat - before breaching and entering the superstructure.

5:  Inside the Reaper, we battle our way to the core, holding off more Reaper forces and salvaging tech/data caches in the process. We maybe even get offered choices - such as choosing between saving a squad mate or recovering significant data on the Reaper fleet.

6:  We battle a never-before-been-seen Reaper sub creature - the remains of a harvested race - in the core as our squad mates attempt to arm several dark matter charges.  The longer we can hold out against the creature for, the more charges our squad are able to successfully arm.

7:  We then flee back to the shuttle, maybe again having to make vital decisions along the route - mount a rear guard action while the Alliance teams evacuate for higher war assets but risk team casualties.

8:  The Reaper starts to recover full power just as we reach the Normandy, and pursues us as we attempt to escape the system.  Depending on the actions we've taken during the mini-campaign (Klendagon weapon strength, time taken to breach the Reaper's hull, actions taken on board and number of charges successfully set) the Reaper is completely destroyed (full success), completely destroyed but manages to take some of the Alliance fleet with it as the Normandy escapes (success, but you lose Alliance war assets), or the Reaper survives the attack and flees (mission failure), or survives the attack and turns it's rage on the remaining Alliance forces as you escape (mission failure & you lose war assets)

Done right, it could have been absolutely amazing.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 02 décembre 2013 - 03:03 .


#2
Eryri

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Absolutely. The lack of interaction with the Reapers themselves was something of a missed opportunity, in my opinion.

#3
Linkenski

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Yes. I hated the dominance of Reaper Destroyers in missions because it seemed like "Let's make a Reaper that's smaller and beatable just to make a realisitc scenario where you get to kill a Reaper"

They should've had two Destroyers, and then on Earth the big fight should've been trying to bring down a Sovereign-class Reaper or even Harbinger.

One of the reasons I thought the Reaper threat felt a bit disconnected sometimes was because there were only 2 or 3 missions with the huge-ass Reapers in the background and they never complicated things for Shepard's mission objectives.

#4
AlanC9

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I found that X-Wing campaign to be a bit contrived, myself. OTOH, I get that feeling a lot when playing the LA space sims.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 décembre 2013 - 08:58 .


#5
Deathsaurer

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I've never really considered this kind of thing. If you get the barriers down it's better to just blow it up to be done with. Boarding a live Reaper is absurdly high risk very low reward for several reasons.

1) The platforms and airlocks in the derelict Reaper were installed by the Cerberus team so you have no paths to follow. Add to this no two Sovereign class Reapers have the same layout beyond everything is in this general direction and you've got a mess.

2) Everyone that boards it is risking indoctrination. Don't need a bunch of highly skilled commandos suddenly turning on their friends in a major battle.

3) The entire Geth Consensus after upgrades couldn't make sense of a single thought from a Reaper so you're not going to hack anything of real value doing this. Hacking anything at all might me a no go. Not to mention all data could be fake.

4) Even if none of the above happens it can just self destruct to prevent anyone from getting off and realistically it should as soon as its security is compromised unless it's setting a trap via other means.

#6
Mcfly616

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All out attack? Reaper Capital Ship? See: ME1


On a side-note, I would love a Rogue Squadron type game set in the MEU.

#7
TheMyron

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Character Hijacking #3 that I hate a lot: Who are the badguys? Cerberus or the Reapers?

In the first two games we have Sovereign and then Harbinger bragging to our face about how infallible and indestructible they are even against a united galaxy, and yet in ME3, Bioware decides, "oh, they must use "divide and conquer", and thus we fight Cerberus for 60% of the game...

#8
TheMyron

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Deathsaurer wrote...

I've never really considered this kind of thing. If you get the barriers down it's better to just blow it up to be done with. Boarding a live Reaper is absurdly high risk very low reward for several reasons.

1) The platforms and airlocks in the derelict Reaper were installed by the Cerberus team so you have no paths to follow. Add to this no two Sovereign class Reapers have the same layout beyond everything is in this general direction and you've got a mess.

2) Everyone that boards it is risking indoctrination. Don't need a bunch of highly skilled commandos suddenly turning on their friends in a major battle.

3) The entire Geth Consensus after upgrades couldn't make sense of a single thought from a Reaper so you're not going to hack anything of real value doing this. Hacking anything at all might me a no go. Not to mention all data could be fake.

4) Even if none of the above happens it can just self destruct to prevent anyone from getting off and realistically it should as soon as its security is compromised unless it's setting a trap via other means.


Sovereign himself already had accommodations built into him to house Saren and his Krogan friends so he could pay the Geth a visit. Plus, indoctrination takes much longer than just a few minutes to complete.

#9
Rasofe

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Shepard face to face vs Harbinger, armed with nothing but a Paladin.
Now there's a battle.

#10
Deathsaurer

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TheMyron wrote...

Sovereign himself already had accommodations built into him to house Saren and his Krogan friends so he could pay the Geth a visit. Plus, indoctrination takes much longer than just a few minutes to complete.


The derelict Reaper would suggest otherwise. Saren had been running around with Sovereign for awhile, no reason to think based off what we've seen that the chair wasn't added. Either that or it's unique to Sovereign because of its duties. And of course rapid indoctrination is possible.

#11
AlexMBrennan

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The problem is that, unlike Star Wars, Mass Effect wasn't written to allow for any interesting space combat. You get an codex entry explaining this once you gain control of the Normandy in ME1 so if you have been hoping for epic space battles all this time then, frankly, you are delusional.

Also, your plan assumes that we have unlimited supply of superweapons that can disable Reapers, in which case there would be absolutely no point in this - just mount these gun on our ships and we're done.

#12
JamesFaith

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TheMyron wrote...

Sovereign himself already had accommodations built into him to house Saren and his Krogan friends so he could pay the Geth a visit.


We saw just one room from Sovereign interior. It should easily be some isolated compartment for transport of living creatures.

On other hand derelict Reapers was full of big spaces without any infrastructures except those built by Cerberus.

#13
NeonFlux117

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If you saved the collector base back in ME2, there should have been the option of Shepard piloting the human proto reaper and boss fight against Harby, Pacific Rim style.

Mech smash!!!

#14
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

If you saved the collector base back in ME2, there should have been the option of Shepard piloting the human proto reaper and boss fight against Harby, Pacific Rim style.

Mech smash!!!


Just equip some thrusters on it's tail end, and some Thanix cannons for arms, and we'd be ready to rock.

#15
NeonFlux117

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StreetMagic wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

If you saved the collector base back in ME2, there should have been the option of Shepard piloting the human proto reaper and boss fight against Harby, Pacific Rim style.

Mech smash!!!


Just equip some thrusters on it's tail end, and some Thanix cannons for arms, and we'd be ready to rock.


Yes!!! But it's "to videogamey" and doesn't have enough 'art' and "high level" stuff, so.....Yeah. Scrap that one. 

What we need is to find a way to do this segment and still have the ultimate integrity and artistic prose. 

#16
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

If you saved the collector base back in ME2, there should have been the option of Shepard piloting the human proto reaper and boss fight against Harby, Pacific Rim style.

Mech smash!!!


Just equip some thrusters on it's tail end, and some Thanix cannons for arms, and we'd be ready to rock.


Yes!!! But it's "to videogamey" and doesn't have enough 'art' and "high level" stuff, so.....Yeah. Scrap that one. 

What we need is to find a way to do this segment and still have the ultimate integrity and artistic prose. 


I'd suggest they just book a party with other artists. Like.. say.. Keith Richards. If you can't get him, try Iggy Pop. Maybe they'll stop taking things so seriously afterwards.

#17
NeonFlux117

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I just want Keith to rip Start Me Up at the begining of the battle. Then tear into Jumping Jack Flash.


And then....... BioWare can do whatever they want, cause my dreams will have been reached

#18
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

I just want Keith to rip Start Me Up at the begining of the battle. Then tear into Jumping Jack Flash.


And then....... BioWare can do whatever they want, cause my dreams will have been reached


I think if Patrick Weekes had written some of this, it would have more potential for goofiness. He sounds crazy. I was just reading a funny comment the other day about Drew Karpyshyn saying one of his fondest (or scariest) memories is Weekes showing up at a Halloween party dressed as Jack (the bra strap version). That's the kind of art we need.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 02 décembre 2013 - 11:50 .


#19
Darks1d3

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StreetMagic wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

I just want Keith to rip Start Me Up at the begining of the battle. Then tear into Jumping Jack Flash.


And then....... BioWare can do whatever they want, cause my dreams will have been reached


I think if Patrick Weekes had written some of this, it would have more potential for goofiness. He sounds crazy. I was just reading a funny comment the other day about Drew Karpyshyn saying one of his fondest (or scariest) memories is Weekes showing up at a Halloween party dressed as Jack (the bra strap version). That's the kind of art we need.


:lol:

I wonder if that was the inspiration for the log in Overlord concerning lanigan

“Halloween was yesterday. Lanigan ran around wearing spare geth parts.
Spooked the **** out of everyone. Now I definitely hate him.”


I like this Lanigan.

#20
dreamgazer

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

If you saved the collector base back in ME2, there should have been the option of Shepard piloting the human proto reaper and boss fight against Harby, Pacific Rim style.

Mech smash!!!


LOLwut?

#21
Michotic

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I was hoping the final battle was going to be between Shepard and Harbinger. The squad mates (past and present) that aren't in your immediate party also lend a hand to destroying him, so the more living squad mates you had, the more assistance you got.

#22
Farangbaa

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Michotic wrote...

I was hoping the final battle was going to be between Shepard and Harbinger. The squad mates (past and present) that aren't in your immediate party also lend a hand to destroying him, so the more living squad mates you had, the more assistance you got.


You're kidding.. right?

That would be like fighting a T-Rex... with a broken toothpick.

#23
Straken-SWE

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Psychevore wrote...

That would be like fighting a T-Rex... with a broken toothpick.

Hahah, like that comparison :D

#24
Han Shot First

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I think the biggest problem with having a battle within a fully intact and operational Reaper, is that you are going to less whoever survives the attack to indoctrination. In order to have had a Reaper ship level, the game would have first needed to introduce a counter to indoctrination in the lore.

#25
Bfler

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ElSuperGecko wrote...

I remember playing Lucasart's X-Wing back in the day. The first one.  Years ago. 

Within the game, Star Destroyers were (naturally) built up as nearly indestructible and not to be messed with. But in the second campaign... you get to launch an attack on one and take one down.


They were far from invincible. You only had to destroy the two round shield generators above the bridge and then fire at the bottom part near the hangar. You could do it with your own fighter, without any support. I did it x-times, because one of the missions, where you had to protect some repair vessels from waves of TIE-fighters,bombers of an incoming SD was bugged and did never end.

I would say, it was more difficult to destroy a Nebulon frigate than a SD .