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[CosmicGnosis]

www.pcgamer.com/2013/06/20/mass-effect-3-series-former-lead-writer-reveals-original-ending-ideas/

This article is kind of old, but I've only now discovered it. It presents a few more details about the dark energy ending. Honestly, it seems to rely on space magic even more than the final product (not counting Synthesis). From a scientific standpoint, I'm not comfortable with the idea that dark energy, a very real force in the universe, is only accessible to organic beings.

"Dark Energy was something that only organics could access because of various techno-science magic reasons we hadn't decided on yet," Karpyshyn said. "Maybe using this Dark Energy was having a ripple effect on the space-time continuum. Maybe the Reapers kept wiping out organic life because organics keep evolving to the state where they would use biotics and dark energy and that caused an entropic effect that would hasten the end of the universe. Being immortal beings, that's something they wouldn't want to see.

"Then we thought, let's take it to the next level. Maybe the Reapers are looking at a way to stop this. Maybe there's an inevitable descent into the opposite of the Big Bang (the Big Crunch) and the Reapers realise that the only way they can stop it is by using biotics, but since they can't use biotics they have to keep rebuilding society - as they try and find the perfect group to use biotics for this purpose. The Asari were close but they weren't quite right, the Protheans were close as well.

"Again it's very vague and not fleshed out, it was something we considered but we ended up going in a different direction."

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:34 .

[Mcfly616]

Yeah this has been discussed. This is why "humans are different" was bashed over our heads in ME2. Culminating in the human Reaper. Which makes sense perfectly fine.


Reapers purpose was to find a way to stop Dark Energy from destroying the galaxy. Which is why they harvest advanced organic civilizations. Organics being the only ones capable of using biotics (aka manipulating dark energy). The final choice culminating in harvesting the human race into a Reaper in order to eliminate or stop dark energy OR blowing the Reapers to hell and hoping for the best. (I like that part. It has weight.)

Modifié par Mcfly616, 03 décembre 2013 - 07:02 .

[Mcfly616]

They weren't "hinting" at anything. They planted seeds. The Dark Energy plot was never set in stone, nor was it ever planned and then dropped. It was a possibility. An idea. Nothing more. Nothing less.


And the way things ended up is still consistent with what we've learned previously in the series. Especially with everyone's favorite Sovereign speech.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

(I like that part. It has weight.)

It warms my heart to hear you quote ME2. :happy:

I love ME2. More than most games. It's just my least favorite of the trilogy. Mostly because it completely dropped much of what made me fall in love with the first game.

I love Star Wars. I love Halo...but ME2 is like Return of the Jedi or Halo 2. It's just the odd one of the bunch. Something is missing that I find essential to said universes.

[Mcfly616]

StreetMagic wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

They weren't "hinting" at anything. They planted seeds.

All I meant. No reason to be so fastidious. Unless you hate my guts and are looking for any excuse to "put me in my place". That's your business then.

no no. Chill out Magic. I'm simply saying, that it wasn't like they were foreshadowing where they were planning on going.....they were "planting seeds", so in case they went that way it'd make sense. That's all.

[Deathsaurer]

All this does is make me wish they had some basic outline for the ending before they started.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Nothing is worse than what we got.

[Sion1138]

It's similar to the several instances in Star Trek where it was claimed that warp fields destroy space-time.

It makes sense, in the realm of science-fiction at least.

[Linkenski]

"Karpyshyn left BioWare shortly before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2"
To everyone who keep saying stuff like "Mac just didn't live up to his own potential in ME3" need to remember that this confirms that the way they decided to show the Human Reaper (Terminator) at the end of ME2 was written by Walters and not Karpyshyn. Maybe he had the idea but Mac thought "hey, it'd be cool if it was just like this huge human robot"

Anyway, I really, really dig the idea of the "Big Crunch" being the big threat, and even though I still think his ending would've become something divisive for fans, it would be much less so than the bullcrap Casey and Mac came up with. I still feel the pain every time I think about ME3, from back when I initially beat it. It's still the biggest dissapointment I've had in my entire life when it comes to gaming.

[Rasofe]

Dark Energy would only slow down the big crunch, and this has absolutely nothing to do with the central theme of the story, just like Synthesis.
Don't get overly daydreamy, guys. I can see a hundred ways to turn this idea into something as baffling as Organics vs Synthetics is solved through perfection!

[AlanC9]

Linkenski wrote...

"Karpyshyn left BioWare shortly before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2"
To everyone who keep saying stuff like "Mac just didn't live up to his own potential in ME3" need to remember that this confirms that the way they decided to show the Human Reaper (Terminator) at the end of ME2 was written by Walters and not Karpyshyn. Maybe he had the idea but Mac thought "hey, it'd be cool if it was just like this huge human robot".

It's actually not at all clear what "before the conclusion of Mass Effect 2" means. Before they wrote as far as the ending? Before script approval? Before edits made during development? Before the game went gold?

[StarcloudSWG]

Drew had already left ME 2 for writing work on SW: KotOR the MMORPG long before he left Bioware, and he left Bioware while ME 2 was still in development.

[AlanC9]

Right, but at what point in ME2 development? I think Linkenski's probably right that the human-Reaper fight came about late, though. IIRC the original plan was for a much longer time in the Collector base post-reveal, with more details about the human-Reaper. Anyone else remember that?

[Clayless]

Rasofe wrote...

Dark Energy would only slow down the big crunch, and this has absolutely nothing to do with the central theme of the story, just like Synthesis.

Yeah. The Reapers plan wouldn't stop the end of the universe, only slightly slow it, and it most definately wouldn't stop the end of the universe if it was contained to the Milky Way.

Modifié par Robosexual, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:37 .

[Rasofe]

It makes more sense to me that they were going to study humanity through Reaper form, because it also makes sense to me that the catalyst is retarded and would "study" things like a shark does. Why does it call it ascension? I don't bloody know. Just like I don't know why arsonists exist.
Speaking of which, "when fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict?" Would probably make it into this ending, too.

Modifié par Rasofe, 03 décembre 2013 - 06:18 .

[Mcfly616]

I love when people bring up the "when fire burns..." line. Considering the Catalyst is making an analogy that makes sense, I'm not so sure what the problem is. Maybe people just wanted the Reapers to just be pure evil machines hell-bent on destruction. That would be so much more original.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Whatever the reapers motives were, from the viewpoint of those being killed it's a simple matter of survival. The reapers were the alpha predator and to survive it was adapt and eliminate the alpha predator or become extinct. Did it really matter what their motives were? If your house is on fire do you stand around and wonder what philosophy the fire espouses? Or do you put out the damned fire?

[Obadiah]

Jack has a biotic Verrin pet in Citadel.

[Wulfram]

I'm increasingly convinced that the technological singularity was a much better choice for the why or reapers.

Just needed to be handled in a not so stupid way.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Wulfram wrote...

I'm increasingly convinced that the technological singularity was a much better choice for the why or reapers.

Just needed to be handled in a not so stupid way.

IDK, technological singularity is stronger as a cyberpunk theme than far-future space opera theme. And ME is more towards the latter. When you already have EDI or the Geth or the "rogue" A.I.s as regular fixtures of the ME universe (quite a few side missions in ME1&2 revolved around these already), singularity doesn't seem so strong a theme to end on, since the Reapers should've been something bigger than that and not just another part of what was already happening in regular galactic life.

Personally, I feel a more space-magicy ending would've been better for ME3, even if it made even less sense. The Reapers are "cosmicist" villans (space-Cthulthlus) so it would've been more effective if their motivations remained slightly incomprehensible IMO. Bringing them down to the level of technological singularity makes them too 'human'. I mean, it's cool to explore this theme through Agent Smith vs Neo, or Roy Batty vs Rick Deckard, but it loses a lot of effect when you have billion year old techno-gods worrying telling you they wanna kill you because they can't stop your ipod from growing a brain (and killing you).