876 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Morocco Mole wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Duh: Karpyshyn would've wrote it, so clearly it would've been flawless, void of holes, and utterly gratifying for "true" ME fans.

I will never get this opinion. Nor why people have elevated Drew to that level. He is at best, on Walters level at writing a coherent story from the novels he has written that i have read.

My opinion is that Drew is a good writer but neither Drew not Mac should be put on lead writer, or narrative director (Mac)

[Argentoid]

AresKeith wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Duh: Karpyshyn would've wrote it, so clearly it would've been flawless, void of holes, and utterly gratifying for "true" ME fans.

I will never get this opinion. Nor why people have elevated Drew to that level. He is at best, on Walters level at writing a coherent story from the novels he has written that i have read.

My opinion is that Drew is a good writer but neither Drew not Mac should be put on lead writer, or narrative director (Mac)

Mac....

Narrative Director...

[KaiserShep]

Dear gods, it's beautiful.

[Hazegurl]

AlanC9 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Cows (and fire) aren't shooting at me, trying to thwart my plans for survival by the use of tactics, blowing up factories, transforming my friends and family into half cows to psychologically torture me, sending leaders to guide armies to kill me, instructing their lackeys to purchase a dead body to use, et al.....
.

Oh, sure.... cows don't do those things to us. But we do at least some of those things to them.

So what makes organized killing "war"? Is it war if the targets fight back? If so, I haven't been at war with cows, but I have been at war with a certain hornet's nest.... unfortunately for hornets, they're not a party to the Geneva Convention, so I used a WMD on them.

Since war is more of a competition then it's war if the target fights back. With that said, yeah those hornets were going to war with you, you just had more advanced tech that could wipe them out. You were the Reaper.

[CosmicGnosis]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

Technological singularity and its risks aren't really the essence of the threat, IMO. The creation of the Catalyst and its decision to initiate the cycles was the result of the Leviathans' selfishness and arrogance. It was one more case of someone deciding to exploit other sapient beings and having the consequences spin out of control, which we've seen plenty of in Mass Effect - ExoGeni and the thorian, Project Overlord, the krogan uplift and genophage, Jack and the other children at Pragia, rachni experiments on Noveria, TIM's schemes, and some others I'm probably not thinking of at the moment.

I don't generally like villains that are "beyond our comprehension" or that "only understand force and must be destroyed," yet at the same time bear some resemblance to real people in their thought processes and communications. If they were going that route, they'd have needed to make the Reapers completely uncommunicative and behaving as more of an elemental force than a collection of living beings, and that ship sailed the moment Sovereign opened its mouth.

Which ending do you think exploits sapient beings the least?

[ruggly]

Argentoid wrote...




Masterpiece.

I missed this picture so, so much.

[Hazegurl]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I don't see how you guys can complain about the current endings being dark when the dark energy ones are "sacrifice an entire species" or "let the galaxy die"

I can't say DE is good or perfect but I do like the dilemma it forces the player into.  I will say that it's better than the whole "synthetics killing organics to save organics from being killed by synthetics" line of reasoning.

[Hazegurl]

StreetMagic wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Cows (and fire) aren't shooting at me, trying to thwart my plans for survival by the use of tactics, blowing up factories, transforming my friends and family into half cows to psychologically torture me, sending leaders to guide armies to kill me, instructing their lackeys to purchase a dead body to use, et al.....
.

Oh, sure.... cows don't do those things to us. But we do at least some of those things to them.

So what makes organized killing "war"? Is it war if the targets fight back? If so, I haven't been at war with cows, but I have been at war with a certain hornet's nest.... unfortunately for hornets, they're not a party to the Geneva Convention, so I used a WMD on them.

Since war is more of a competition then it's war if the target fights back. With that said, yeah those hornets were going to war with you, you just had more advanced tech that could wipe them out. You were the Reaper.

It's definitely a competition at the very least. Synthetics and organics struggling for primacy on the evolutionary chain. The Reapers just don't know they're actually struggling, until the last minute. When the Catalyst sees what you did with the Crucible, he's throwing in the towel "Clearly, organics are more resourceful than we realized."

I can also see it as him throwing in the towel at the end. He had no choice but to accept destruction or control. But if he could talk Shep into talking his most desired path. Synthesis, then he will give it a shot. No harm in trying.   

[Oni Changas]

I thought it should go without saying that I meant the DE IDEA was thematically perfect. Leave it to children to misinterpret things in black or white. The DE plot as outlined is clearly an unfinished product that exists at best as an idea formed by prescripting and brainstorming. Hence my saying "with some changes."

[dreamgazer]

OniTYME wrote...

I thought it should go without saying that I meant the DE IDEA was thematically perfect. Leave it to children to misinterpret things in black or white. The DE plot as outlined is clearly an unfinished product that exists at best as an idea formed by prescripting and brainstorming. Hence my saying "with some changes."

The idea is far from perfect, too, even "with some changes".  No misinterpretation from the "children", sorry. 

I do wonder how the "thematically revolting" crowd feels about the fact that Karpyshyn had a sacrifical ending in mind, though. 

[Mr.House]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I don't see how you guys can
complain about the current endings being dark when the dark energy ones
are "sacrifice an entire species" or "let the galaxy die"

]Drew fanboys.  The worse kind of fanboys.

Modifié par Mr.House, 04 décembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[Deathsaurer]

Hazegurl wrote...

I can't say DE is good or perfect but I do like the dilemma it forces the player into.  I will say that it's better than the whole "synthetics killing organics to save organics from being killed by synthetics" line of reasoning.

Except, you know, the mass relays are the biggest source of dark energy in the galaxy teaching the younger races to make more tech that makes dark energy so they can find a solution to dark energy...

[Hazegurl]

Melting organics into space goo isn't teaching them about dark energy.

[Display Name Owner]

Aren't Biotics and Mass Effect technology basically the same thing? Biotics is just using ME fields by hand isn't it? Aren't Reapers effectively giant Biotics themselves?

Meh. Anyway, the dark energy plot might have worked, but it's hard to say. It would require a hell of a lot of tweaking, and imo that "humanity is the key" thing needs to go right out the window. The other thing about the DE plot is that contrary to being "beyond our comprehension" as more than one Reaper put it, it's very much comprehensible.

If you ask me it needn't have been any one thing. Why not just make it about the whole lot? Dark energy regulation, population regulation, Reaper reproduction, keeping a check on resource consumption in the galaxy, etc etc. Not particularly intriguing, but it makes some kind of sense right?

[Linkenski]

I really do not understand all the "drew is so overrated" talk. I mean, aren't we all here because we grew in love with particularly Mass Effect 1 in the first place? He made the goddamn plot for that game and even though I like ME2 better overall I cannot deny that ME1 had the better more coherent plot. I don't think Drew is an amazing writer and it definitely shows in a lot of dialogue in ME1 as well, but he's much better and keeping things straight than [Mac Walters] is.

[Inappropriate comment edited.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

Linkenski wrote...

I really do not understand all the "drew is so overrated" talk. I mean, aren't we all here because we grew in love with particularly Mass Effect 1 in the first place? He made the goddamn plot for that game and even though I like ME2 better overall I cannot deny that ME1 had the better more coherent plot. I don't think Drew is an amazing writer and it definitely shows in a lot of dialogue in ME1 as well, but he's much better and keeping things straight than superhack is.

I'm not exactly sure, either. Most of the contention seems to come from his work on some Star Wars books, which apparently are not anything spectacular or less than average. Although I'm completely speculating here, based off a few posts from people over the internet, I don't see how this necessarily damns him as a bad writer or a hack because video games and books are two completely different mediums. I mean he seems to be heavily involved in enough of BioWare's works (that people seem to like) that he must be doing something right. Then again he could be coasting off of other writers' efforts that he is generally given credit for.

[JamesFaith]

Linkenski wrote...

I really do not understand all the "drew is so overrated" talk. I mean, aren't we all here because we grew in love with particularly Mass Effect 1 in the first place? He made the goddamn plot for that game and even though I like ME2 better overall I cannot deny that ME1 had the better more coherent plot. I don't think Drew is an amazing writer and it definitely shows in a lot of dialogue in ME1 as well, but he's much better and keeping things straight than superhack is.

Problem is that ME universe is mostly child of two men - Drew Karpyshyn and Casey Hudson, plus many others.

And when first one is now glorified by many people on BSN partialy thanks to his absence in ME3 and second one's work is marginalized because of his work on endings of ME3, this unbalance naturally raised many critical voices of people with different opinion.

Not my case, I like his work (and dislike DE plot), but I understand it.

Modifié par JamesFaith, 05 décembre 2013 - 01:40 .

[goose2989]

Would it have been so bad to just make the Reapers a bunch of self-concerned buttholes? They never needed a complex motivation like this, or what we got. They were just the villains, not the main characters.

[durasteel]

Drew was the Lead Writer for KotOR and Mass Effect, both of which were amazing games--and not because of their combat mechanics.

Have you read many Star Wars novels? Many (maybe most) of them are so poorly written they're almost unreadable. Karpyshyn is one of the better novelists of that pack.