Drew HIMSELF laughed this, how on one side he has Dark Energy fans who are absolutely sure he would "save" ME3 while on the other side many Revan fans think he "ruined" Revan lolMorocco Mole wrote...
Drew did not invent the Mass Effect setting. It was the collaborative effort of a many writers and artists. And to be honest, if it belongs to anyone its probably Casey Hudson.
I wouldn't call Mass Effect's plot stellar at all. Since I think 3 has a better one and 2 (which Drew did a lot of work on as co-lead writer) didn't have much of anything in plot.
He's overrated because people like to **** on Walters (despite Walters doing as much good for the setting as Drew has) due to his own questionable writing in the series and because they think if Drew stuck around the series would have not had the writing issues it developed (but considering he wrote a lot of 2, which introduced a lot of plot problems in 3, he really wouldn't have)I'm not exactly sure, either. Most of the contention seems to come from his work on some Star Wars books, which apparently are not anything spectacular or less than average.
His Mass Effect books are also terrible
Drew Karpyshyn provides a few more details about the Dark Energy ending
#101
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 02:39
-
- Members
- 16 373 messages
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 02:42
-
- Members
- 583 messages
Argentoid wrote...
Masterpiece.
I love this.
#103
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:02
-
- Members
- 359 messages
#104
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:07
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
I hadn't seen this article--it only confirms what a terrible idea "Dark Energy" ever was.
#105
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:18
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
#106
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:28
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
StreetMagic wrote...
At least Dark Energy is a widely accepted concept in science. It's easier to play with. The tech singularity isn't. It's religion and ideology posing as science. Much bigger can of worms, imo.
Mass Effect "dark energy" would not be anything like scientific dark energy.
Further, on the topic of religion, The Prothean Beacons, the Cipher, and "indoctrination" were far more religious in nature than either dark energy and tech singularities, and came before either.
Actually, i take that back. ME1 mentioned tech singularities in the beginning.
#107
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:33
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
EntropicAngel wrote...
Actually, i take that back. ME1 mentioned tech singularities in the beginning.
That isn't a singularity. That's just conflict. That quest doesn't point to the near religious idealism common in "Singulartarianism" (real word, apparently lol).
The Singularity is not all that different than Protestant Christianity's rapture. A moment when all the true believers are whisked away into utopia/heaven/ideal life. Complete with the "true believers" preparing themselves for the moment in the here and now. It's more rooted in escapism. Not conflict. Except here it's a technological utopia, rather than spiritual.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 05 décembre 2013 - 04:35 .
#108
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:51
-
- Members
- 1 505 messages
#109
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:54
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
StreetMagic wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
Actually, i take that back. ME1 mentioned tech singularities in the beginning.
That isn't a singularity. That's just conflict. That quest doesn't point to the near religious idealism common in "Singulartarianism" (real word, apparently lol).
The Singularity is not all that different than Protestant Christianity's rapture. A moment when all the true believers are whisked away into utopia/heaven/ideal life. Complete with the "true believers" preparing themselves for the moment in the here and now. It's more rooted in escapism. Not conflict. Except here it's a technological utopia, rather than spiritual.
That's as much of a singularity as ME3 ever has. ME3's ending is precisely what is described by that computer:
"The AI is scornful of organics like Shepard, claiming it is not naive; it understands organic life must always enslave or destroy synthetics, but it refuses to die alone."
Lol, wat? It's nothing alike. What's your definition of a tech singularity? According to Wikipedia, it's the moment when artificial intelligence surpasses human intelligence. There's nothing even remotely religious about that.
#110
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:06
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
EntropicAngel wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
Actually, i take that back. ME1 mentioned tech singularities in the beginning.
That isn't a singularity. That's just conflict. That quest doesn't point to the near religious idealism common in "Singulartarianism" (real word, apparently lol).
The Singularity is not all that different than Protestant Christianity's rapture. A moment when all the true believers are whisked away into utopia/heaven/ideal life. Complete with the "true believers" preparing themselves for the moment in the here and now. It's more rooted in escapism. Not conflict. Except here it's a technological utopia, rather than spiritual.
That's as much of a singularity as ME3 ever has. ME3's ending is precisely what is described by that computer:
"The AI is scornful of organics like Shepard, claiming it is not naive; it understands organic life must always enslave or destroy synthetics, but it refuses to die alone."
Lol, wat? It's nothing alike. What's your definition of a tech singularity? According to Wikipedia, it's the moment when artificial intelligence surpasses human intelligence. There's nothing even remotely religious about that.
That's only half of the story for people who espouse the Singularity. It's never really been about AI. It's more about how humans cope with AI. Slight difference. Ultimately, the Singularity ends up being more about transhumanism and a turning point in history when we can escape from all of our real world troubles (health, political, social, etc). Technology becomes a vehicle for bringing about apotheosis (becoming gods).
Mass Effect ends up nudging in this direction too. Railroading all of the motivations of organics as seeking "perfection through technology". That we can evolve no further without it's help. The Catalyst and Shepard, if willing, are the two Titans who can give birth to new gods. And if not, it's "inevitable" anyways.
The one good thing about the dark energy ending is that it didn't put technology on a pedestal. Biotics, for example, were another type of singularity in it's own right. There were different pathways to "perfection" in this scheme, and different dangers for betting on one or the other.
#111
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:26
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
StreetMagic wrote...
That's only half of the story for people who espouse the Singularity. It's never really been about AI. It's more about how humans cope with AI. Slight difference. Ultimately, the Singularity ends up being more about transhumanism and a turning point in history when we can escape from all of our real world troubles (health, political, social, etc). Technology becomes a vehicle for bringing about apotheosis (becoming gods).
Mass Effect ends up nudging in this direction too. Railroading all of the motivations of organics as seeking "perfection through technology". That we can evolve no further without it's help. The Catalyst and Shepard, if willing, are the two Titans who can give birth to new gods. And if not, it's "inevitable" anyways.
The one good thing about the dark energy ending is that it didn't put technology on a pedestal. Biotics, for example, were another type of singularity in it's own right. There were different pathways to "perfection" in this scheme, and different dangers for betting on one or the other.
Do you have a source for any of what you're claiming about the singularity?
And where, exactly, did you see ME as "organics can evolve no further without synthetic help"? I must have missed that throughout the entirety of ME1, ME2, and 95% of ME3.
And I'll point out in response to your last sentence, that is literally what we got with RGB. Literally.
Red: Destroy the Reapers, in the hopes that the Catalyst is wrong
Blue: Control the Reapers, in the hopes that you actually CAN control them
Green: Change everything. Everything.
Modifié par EntropicAngel, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .
#112
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:28
-
- Members
- 1 505 messages
#113
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:32
-
- Members
- 4 163 messages
#114
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:35
-
- Members
- 1 505 messages
#115
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:35
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
EntropicAngel wrote...
Do you have a source for any of what you're claiming about the singularity?
Yeah, read any article or book by Ray Kurzweil. He's the goddamn pope of the Tech Singularity. http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0143037889. Good luck.
![=]](https://lvlt.forum.bioware.com/public/style_emoticons/default/sideways.png)
Or try this wiki page for a brief starter on the ideologies around the subject.
It isn't about science. It's ultimately about hope and escape. "Singularity" is just another placeholder in a long line of many for people to place their hopes. A magical wonderland free of pain, if we just believe it hard enough.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:36 .
#116
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:39
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
StreetMagic wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
Do you have a source for any of what you're claiming about the singularity?
Yeah, read any article or book by Ray Kurzweil. He's the goddamn pope of the Tech Singularity. http://www.amazon.co...d/dp/0143037889. Good luck.
Or try this wiki page for a brief starter on the ideologies around the subject.
It isn't about science. It's ultimately about hope and escape. "Singularity" is just another placeholder in a long line of many for people to place their hopes. A magical wonderland free of pain, if we just believe it hard enough.
Alright. And I'll point out again that that never ocurred in Mass Effect.
Quite the opposite: The Catalyst notes Shepard, an organic, and his/her ability to make it to him as the first ever, in millenia.
The closest ME has is that organics and synthetics resolve towards war, not that synthetics outsmart their owners. They rebel.
If there's anything religious about it, it's painting Shepard as a messiah figure, not that technology is the ultimate answer (that was the Catalyst's viewpoint, but Shepard's existence there was a point against it).
#117
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:40
-
- Members
- 1 593 messages
#118
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:40
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
CosmicGnosis wrote...
StreetMagic, should I assume that you are not a fan of 2001: A Space Odyssey? Or any story that advocates for some kind of "ascension"?
Feck no. That movie sucks big hairy ape balls.
#119
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:41
-
- Members
- 23 806 messages
ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Maybe nothing will change. Perhaps AI will sit next to their Organic creators as they watch football and junk movies?
I believe that THIS is the ideal solution. Transcendence is massively overrated. Mundane coexistence is where the party's at!
Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:42 .
#120
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:42
-
- Members
- 1 505 messages
#121
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:43
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
EntropicAngel wrote...
If there's anything religious about it, it's painting Shepard as a messiah figure, not that technology is the ultimate answer (that was the Catalyst's viewpoint, but Shepard's existence there was a point against it).
I really want to believe that, but they threw in the whole "inevitable" bit anyways. Pretty sure Destroy is a feeble, temporary victory in their minds.
#122
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:47
-
- Members
- 4 163 messages
KaiserShep wrote...
ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Maybe nothing will change. Perhaps AI will sit next to their Organic creators as they watch football and junk movies?
I believe that THIS is the ideal solution. Transcendence is massively overrated. Mundane coexistence is where the party's at!
Friends, good food, wine, pretty women -- arguing with strangers on the internet. Existence as it is right now is great as is.
#123
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:48
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
ImaginaryMatter wrote...
KaiserShep wrote...
ImaginaryMatter wrote...
Maybe nothing will change. Perhaps AI will sit next to their Organic creators as they watch football and junk movies?
I believe that THIS is the ideal solution. Transcendence is massively overrated. Mundane coexistence is where the party's at!
Friends, good food, wine, pretty women -- arguing with strangers on the internet. Existence as it is right now is great as is.
I... I love you, man.
#124
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:48
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
-
- Guests
StreetMagic wrote...
I really want to believe that, but they threw in the whole "inevitable" bit anyways. Pretty sure Destroy is a feeble, temporary victory in their minds.
I disagree strongly. The "inevitable" part is the Catalyst's belief, and the Catalyst as we know is openly pushing for Synthesis. That's not Bioware talking, that's a character talking.
In the end that itself comes down to whether or not you believe their writers have the ability to separate themselves from their characters, and do so.
Modifié par EntropicAngel, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:49 .
#125
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 05:49
-
- Members
- 6 523 messages
StreetMagic wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
If there's anything religious about it, it's painting Shepard as a messiah figure, not that technology is the ultimate answer (that was the Catalyst's viewpoint, but Shepard's existence there was a point against it).
I really want to believe that, but they threw in the whole "inevitable" bit anyways. Pretty sure Destroy is a feeble, temporary victory in their minds.
there is too much theology in the game that symbolizes Shepard as that messianic figure. From the standpoint of thematic elements, that is the best assesment you can make to their actions, From a logic standpoint, you are right regarding destroy, although it could end in simple hubris then.
