876 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Technically, the citadel wouldn't be abandoned. It's doubtful that the fleets would retreat so far beyond the Sol system (though this raises the question as to where the hell Joker was going), but we do see them return afterward.

[Seboist]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Its funny people keep blaming Walters for ME2. Because the end credits still show Drew sharing lead writer credits with him. So he shares some of the blame for stupid twists like Reapers being made of liquid people and the prothean collectors

I like how they tried to make it seem like the collectors being former protheans was supposed to be some big deal, as if it makes any difference what a bunch of mindless reaper drones used to be.

[Mr.House]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Its funny people keep blaming Walters for ME2. Because the end credits still show Drew sharing lead writer credits with him. So he shares some of the blame for stupid twists like Reapers being made of liquid people and the prothean collectors

Hell Drew even outright admitted they had no idea what to do, it was just several ideas that and Cerberus was outright changed and shoehorned in. People like to blame Mac for everything but the the cold hard truth? Drew can also be blamed, even more then Mac as it was Drew who started to make player choices useless.

[Zjarcal]

Morocco Mole wrote...

But the endings we got force Shepard to do something horrific. You simply get to choose the horror. And in one case, can maybe live through it.

You are forced to sacrifice the entire human race or condemn the galaxy to a slow death.

If you people can't even headcanon the breath scene as Shepard being alive you people would have gone into depression induced catatonia from that.

But, but, you get to see Shep and your Waifu holding hands so clearly everything is good!

Seriously though, it's comical to think that the people who can't find hope in the Destroy ending, are now claiming that they would somehow be able to find hope in and ending that either kills everyone right away or will surely kill everyone eventually... it's absolutely laughable.

Morocco Mole wrote...

I honestly never saw this as a terrible thing. You want Shepard to survive? Well, the downside is that the geth and EDI have to die for it. 

 

EDI even downright says she's willing to die for the cause.

Besides, we're talking about Synthetics here, hardly impossible to see them being brought back, especially when that already happened once for EDI as the rogue VI on Luna.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:32 .

[Iakus]

Mr.House wrote...
You see a fricken slide with a repaired Citadel, which means they went back to the Citadel. If you can not headcanon that, there is no way in hell you could headcanon hope into Drews ending WHICH is far darker then what Mac did.

Except those slides are supposed to be years, if not decades later.  For all we know, they found a skeleton in charred armor months after teh fact.

[Sion1138]

iakus wrote...

Didn't you hear?  Games are like tv shows.  It's like Breaking Bad and all our Shepards are Walter White. Players have no ownership of thier characters in an rpg 

Yeah, that's a bad mistake.

Although, if you are referring to the Mac Walters interview published not too long ago, he did admit that he underestimated this aspect and learned his lesson.

[Iakus]

Zjarcal wrote...

But, but, you get to see Shep and your Waifu holding hands so clearly everything is good!

Seriously though, it's comical to think that the people who can't find hope in the Destroy ending, are now claiming that they would somehow be able to find hope in and ending that either kills everyone right away or will surely kill everyone eventually... it's absolutely laughable.

I'm just saying there's no way to know.  It might not make any difference, or it might have been presented in a more palatable fashion.

[Iakus]

Sion1138 wrote...

Yeah, that's a bad mistake.

Although, if you are referring to the Mac Walters interview published not too long ago, he did admit that he underestimated this aspect and learned his lesson.

He also said he wouldn't have changed anything, that this was in fact the best way to end the trilogy simply because it happened to work for some players.  So I question that anything was actually learned.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Yeah, that's a bad mistake.

Although, if you are referring to the Mac Walters interview published not too long ago, he did admit that he underestimated this aspect and learned his lesson.

He also said he wouldn't have changed anything, that this was in fact the best way to end the trilogy simply because it happened to work for some players.  So I question that anything was actually learned.

He actually said he wouldn't change anything about Shepard's ultimate fate specifically, the point of the discussion you're referring to. Let's not misconstrue the statements here.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:44 .

[Deathsaurer]

So uh back on topic, what is the best handwave someone can come up with for the mass relays for this ending?

[KaiserShep]

Deathsaurer wrote...

So uh back on topic, what is the best handwave someone can come up with for the mass relays for this ending?

Let's not forget the cores of just about every ship, fighter, shuttle, and even the tanks. It seems as though every single vehicle in the MEU uses eezo to some extent. I'd bet even the multitude of sky cars on the Citadel do. There's also the massive collector base, which has been active for at least 50k years in order to survive the extreme conditions of the galactic core.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Argentoid]

Linkenski wrote...

I know Karpyshyn is formulaic and isn't "impressive" in his writing. You could say Mac might be more... ambitious... I guess? But I don't know because when you read his comics the characterization is just as repetetive as Drew's plot formula is. Everyone is acting edgy and intentionally using bad grammar to sound like d-bags and such.

But more to the point. I like how people are like "Duuh, Karpyshyn is writing gold? Hell no!" But you have games like KotOR and Mass Effect where the plot is pretty coherent and clear at all times, the plot twists don't feel hamfisted (minus saren/Sovereign's merge bossfight :3) and on the other hand you have two games written by Mac.

Karpyshyn wrote the storyline for ME2. He lend Cerberus and sub-plots (and characters) to Mac Walters to supervise.


Dark Energy foreshadow

The Human Reaper

Hoomans are spishiul

Collectors = Protheans

Cerberus being your new ally

Are all Drew's work.

Modifié par Argentoid, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:51 .

[Deathsaurer]

KaiserShep wrote...

Let's not forget the cores of just
about every ship, fighter, shuttle, and even the tanks. It seems as
though every single vehicle in the MEU uses eezo to some extent. I'd bet
even the multitude of sky cars on the Citadel do.

The relays are the source of all of that. The relays are the source of biotics since they teach everyone to use eezo.

There's also the
massive collector base, which has been active for at least 50k years in
order to survive the extreme conditions of the galactic core.

Ah yes, Collectors...

Modifié par Deathsaurer, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[KaiserShep]

Deathsaurer wrote...

The relays are the source of all of that. The relays are the source of biotics since they teach everyone to use eezo.

Sure, but the point is that they should all have a cumulative effect if the manipulation of eezo is having an entropic effect on the universe.

But anyway, you're right. There is no good handwavium to work around the relays in the dark energy plot. It's just too bad that it made its way into ME2 at all.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:55 .

[CronoDragoon]

Morocco Mole wrote...

There isn't one.

Its why these endings are worse the ones we actually got.

"Dark energy is bad and needs to be gotted rid of"

*Builds giant dark energy factories and forces species down the path to use more dark energy*

I can see the yo dawg meme now, and unlike the current one it'd actually be justified.

[Deathsaurer]

KaiserShep wrote...

Sure, but the point is that they should all have a cumulative effect if the manipulation of eezo is having an entropic effect on the universe.

Well yeah, that was my point. The relays need a good handwave because they tought everyone how to make it worse. Everyone following the system makes sense. The Reapers setting this system up has issues to say the least.

[KaiserShep]

This makes Mass Effect 2 all the more problematic. It's not mentioned too often in the game, but the whole dark energy thing is brought up just enough and you see its effects that it stands out reasonably enough in the game's scant plotting.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Deathsaurer wrote...

So uh back on topic, what is the best handwave someone can come up with for the mass relays for this ending?

I kinda have one but it involves my head cannon for a dark energy ending.

That a long, long time ago the Reapers were an Organic race who saw the consequences of a Dark Energy build up. At first they tried to reason with the other races (or not). However, eventually they decided to upload themselves to the Reaper form, kill every one else and completely destroying all technology, then use their new AI form to hibernate until the Dark Energy build up dissipated.

Unfortunately, for them when they woke up they had found that new life had already evolved into dozens of entirely new races seperated throughout the galaxy. The Reapers then began to kill all these new guys too. However, because the new races were so far apart in such a big place like the galaxy it took tens of thousands of years to wipe out these new races as well. Again the Reapers went into hibernation to let the Dark Energy dissipate.

Again when the Reapers woke up even more races had appeared. At this point the Reapers decided to find a better solution. After more extinction and such they eventually came up with the solution of the Mass Relays and the Citadel. Perhaps the Relays were build to be economical (that's pretty hand wavy, right?). The important part though was that the races would settle in the Citadel the hub of the network. This way when the Reapers attacked all the data of the races would be available so they didn't have to search all around the galaxy for the new races to destroy.

[Deathsaurer]

If you want to make the relays to you can kill the stupid kids before they muck something up that's one thing. I'd go as far as saying the activation of a relay being the signal that it's time to kill a race before they break something makes some degree of sense. That way most of the network stays offline at any given time. Or you could just pack up and move to the next galaxy and let the stupid kids kill themselves. They're not your problem.

The current set up of the cycles however... needs a lot of work to make it sound reasonable. This ending could have worked, much like I think the current endings could have worked, if the story was structured slightly different.

[Mr.House]

KaiserShep wrote...

This makes Mass Effect 2 all the more problematic. It's not mentioned too often in the game, but the whole dark energy thing is brought up just enough and you see its effects that it stands out reasonably enough in the game's scant plotting.

Dark energy is only brought up in Tali's two misisons and that person from Novaria. Three missions you can not do which means this susposed build up might never be seen. Had dark energy been brought up alot like HUMANS ARE SPECIAL there would be more ground, but it's not. 

[CronoDragoon]

Isn't the current series explanation for why the Reapers are interested in humans that Shepard destroyed Sovereign? If so, that's much much better than "humans are genetically diverse" which is, at best, flat out wrong.

[AlanC9]

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, the citadel wouldn't be abandoned. It's doubtful that the fleets would retreat so far beyond the Sol system (though this raises the question as to where the hell Joker was going), but we do see them return afterward.

There are only a couple of destinations available from the Charon Relay. Arcturus, Demeter depending on how one interprets some ambiguous Codex language.. that's about it. Assuming Demeter is within the Charon Relay's range, it's at most a few weeks away from Sol via standard FTL.

There are also a couple of garden worlds that aren't on the relay network but are known to be within easy FTL range of Sol --- Benning and the Alpha Centauri system.

[Mr.House]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Isn't the current series explanation for why the Reapers are interested in humans that Shepard destroyed Sovereign? If so, that's much much better than "humans are genetically diverse" which is, at best, flat out wrong.

If Mac did anything right, it was dropping that plot because it was stupid as heck.