1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

MisterJB wrote...
 "Rare" is not "non-existant". If there are ways of preventing ocurrences, why should they be ignored?

Rare is rare. What we saw in the games are nothing but gameplay... to entertain us with action.

MisterJB wrote...
1-A single crow is not as dangerous as an Abomination.
2-Crows require years of extensive training. Five year old mage kids can become Abominations on the spot and kill everyone around them.
3-Most assassination jobs usually involve killing a person or two who, due to being important enough to actually earn enemies wealthy enough to hire the Crows, most likely did something that merited death.
You're going to tell me that's worse than what happened in Redcliff. People losing their loves ones; whether it be a son or a brother, a father, a husband; and then have those loved ones come back as undead who will try to eat them?

The Crows still profit off of murder no matter how many years of experience they have. Murder is murder. What happen at Redcliff was the fault of the parents. You as a pro-templar should knowledge that what  Arl Eamon and Isolde did was highly illegal, for harboring a blood mage that is wanted by the templars.  They took him in and they had him tutor their secret mage child. That is punishable by death. Jowan was nowhere in the postion to teach. If you get things from the blackmarket to save money don't expect quality.

It's the other way around. It's the mages who lose freedoms and the normals who will lose their lives.
And you still haven't anwered my question. Why are the freedoms of mages more important than the lives of normals.
Is Connor being home with his mother worth every single child in Redcliff who lost their parents?

You confuse me. Are you implying that if mages are free that the "normals" will lose their lives? Where did you get this idea from anyways? Can you direct me to a codex or send me a link to Davids twitter or post that confirms this? Im afraid you're voicing your opinion because it's been proven that mages and "normals" can coexist with each other. Look at Hawke and Amell. Old man Hawke was a blood mage apostate, and all he did was produce 2 children and wanted to live a normal life with his wife, a normal.

As far as Connor goes I've already explained it on top.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 04 décembre 2013 - 06:44 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

ahaha abominations rare thats good what next lore claiming that alrik was nice guy .

Sorry but that doesn't have sense abomnations aren't rare you can cry and scream but simple everything that we seen shows otherwise if devs had vision that abomnations are rare they failed awfully without rectcons they can't change that.

Besides i don't even mention that malcolm hawke had to have hide his magic before everyone not just only templars otherwise peoples would just burn him when she slept.No non-mages and mages can't coexist simple becuase of human nature part where other hate or fear you because you are different and mages are very prone prove that they are dangerous ,so no walking unstable bombs never will find
acceptance among mages. pff peoples will hate you because you are not "straight" , that same
skin color or nationality i don't mention walking bombs.

Besides now free unstable nuclear bomb to city full of peoples you can start count before many peoples lost their lifes so mages freedom=abomnations running around.

Damn even circles when strict don't do good job to prevent disaters caused by mages it is time to ultimate solution:whistle: .

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ahaha abominations rare thats good what next lore claiming that alrik was nice guy .

Sorry but that doesn't have sense abomnations aren't rare you can cry
and scream but simple everything that we seen shows otherwise if devs
had vision that abomnations are rare they failed awfully without
rectcons they can't change that.

Abominations ARE rare, per the lore.  Full stop.  I've already referenced the lore saying as much, but here, I'll spell it out.

Codex Entry on Abominations "Thankfully, abominations are rare."

World of Thedas, page 172. "Although rare, abominations are usually created when a mage of weak constitution enters the Fade and is directly exposed to a demon's influence."

And before you say it, I've ALREADY addressed the Broken Circle and Kirkwall.  They were unusual situations and cannot be used as evidence of what is typical.

Beyond that, I would agree that Bioware should have made--and kept--actual abominations as a rare mob to fight in either game, but as it is, there IS the argument that gameplay can't/shouldn't be used to argue against the lore.  And whether you accept it or not, that abominations are rare IS what the lore plainly states.

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 07:55 .

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Besides i don't even mention that malcolm hawke had to have hide his magic before everyone not just only templars otherwise peoples would just burn him when she slept.No non-mages and mages can't coexist simple becuase of human nature part where other hate or fear you because you are different and mages are very prone prove that they are dangerous ,so no walking unstable bombs never will find acceptance among mages. pff peoples will hate you because you are not "straight" , that same skin color or nationality i don't mention walking bombs.

And yet Wilhelm found acceptance among his neighbors.  So did his son, Matthias.  So did Anders find acceptance among the people when he was in Darktown.  The Rivaini seers found acceptance in their communities.  Many people in Kirkwall were willing to risk Templar wrath in order to help mages.  Dalish accept their mages.  So do the Chasind.  Then there are people like Kester, who think that the Maker created mages for a reason.  Mages have parents, children, siblings, and spouses who love them and don't fear or hate them.

For every example of anti-mage hatred you find in the games, there are counter-examples of people who do NOT hate them and aren't predisposed to "burn them when they sleep."  It is by no means at all a given that mages will be hated across the board and have no sympathizers or supporters at all. 

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:01 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ahaha abominations rare thats good what next lore claiming that alrik was nice guy .

Sorry but that doesn't have sense abomnations aren't rare you can cry
and scream but simple everything that we seen shows otherwise if devs
had vision that abomnations are rare they failed awfully without
rectcons they can't change that.

Abominations ARE rare, per the lore.  Full stop.  I've already referenced the lore saying as much, but here, I'll spell it out.

Codex Entry on Abominations "Thankfully, abominations are rare."

World of Thedas, page 172. "Although rare, abominations are usually created when a mage of weak constitution enters the Fade and is directly exposed to a demon's influence."

And before you say it, I've ALREADY addressed the Broken Circle and Kirkwall.  They were unusual situations and cannot be used as evidence of what is typical.

Beyond that, I would agree that Bioware should have made--and kept--actual abominations as a rare mob to fight in either game, but as it is, there IS the argument that gameplay can't/shouldn't be used to argue against the lore.  And whether you accept it or not, that abominations are rare IS what the lore plainly states.

As i said lore can say that arlik was nice guy claiming that abomnations are rare is just ridiculous and untrue.As far everything shows otherwise broken circle , connor , quest with possessed mage, unbound , baroness , kirkwall (army of mages) , meredith sister, fenric and all of this with strict circles if this is rare then my a** i don't know how much would you want to you state that isn't rare ,but you probably end pointing that lore states that abomnations are rare even if every single damn mage turn into abomnation.

So nope abomnations aren't rare and since that we have plenty unusual situation what is only excuse well abomnations aren't rare too late. But you are type who loves point that something is written somewhere even if that is contrary to final products that bio created. 

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Besides
i don't even mention that malcolm hawke had to have hide his magic
before everyone not just only templars otherwise peoples would just burn
him when she slept.No non-mages and mages can't coexist simple becuase
of human nature part where other hate or fear you because you are
different and mages are very prone prove that they are dangerous ,so no
walking unstable bombs never will find acceptance among mages. pff
peoples will hate you because you are not "straight" , that same skin
color or nationality i don't mention walking bombs.

And
yet Wilhelm found acceptance among his neighbors.  So did his son,
Matthias.  So did Anders find acceptance among the people when he was in
Darktown.  The Rivaini seers found acceptance in their communities.
 Many people in Kirkwall were willing to risk Templar wrath in order to
help mages.  Dalish accept their mages.  So do the Chasind.  Then there
are people like Kester, who think that the Maker created mages for a
reason.  Mages have parents, children, siblings, and spouses who love
them and don't fear or hate them.

For every example of anti-mage
hatred you find in the games, there are counter-examples of people who
do NOT hate them and aren't predisposed to "burn them when they sleep." 
It is by no means at all a given that mages will be hated across the
board and have no sympathizers or supporters at all. 

Yeah Wilhelm was hated as far i remember by his neighbors and was only tolerated because everyone feared him. :whistle:You mean his son he wasn't mage as far i remember.As i said you are hero as long peoples need you when they don't they will hate you that was in adners case.

"Many people in Kirkwall were willing to risk Templar wrath in order to
help mages."


Dalish and rivani treat their mages as superior something like primitive culture do with other fantasy put them as shamans. 

"Then there
are people like Kester, who think that the Maker created mages for a
reason.  Mages have parents, children, siblings, and spouses who love
them and don't fear or hate them."
Yeah few most leaves them after they are taken to the circle and well thedas don't help that almost every person is religious and religious peoples just love burn peoples on stakes with chantry stance that magic is curse.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ahaha abominations rare thats good what next lore claiming that alrik was nice guy .

Sorry but that doesn't have sense abomnations aren't rare you can cry
and scream but simple everything that we seen shows otherwise if devs
had vision that abomnations are rare they failed awfully without
rectcons they can't change that.

Abominations ARE rare, per the lore.  Full stop.  I've already referenced the lore saying as much, but here, I'll spell it out.

Codex Entry on Abominations "Thankfully, abominations are rare."

World of Thedas, page 172. "Although rare, abominations are usually created when a mage of weak constitution enters the Fade and is directly exposed to a demon's influence."

And before you say it, I've ALREADY addressed the Broken Circle and Kirkwall.  They were unusual situations and cannot be used as evidence of what is typical.

Beyond that, I would agree that Bioware should have made--and kept--actual abominations as a rare mob to fight in either game, but as it is, there IS the argument that gameplay can't/shouldn't be used to argue against the lore.  And whether you accept it or not, that abominations are rare IS what the lore plainly states.

As i said lore can say that arlik was nice guy claiming that abomnations are rare is just ridiculous and untrue.

Which is the most idiotic argument you could make since the lore does NOT say that.  It does f*ck all to refute my point.  I am not simply claiming that abominations are rare.  I showed you the lore that says flat out that they are. 

Argue that the game mechanics seem to contradict the lore if you want, but you don't get to pretend tthat I'm making a baseless claim, and you also don't get to pretend that the lore doesn't exist just because you personally think it's wrong.  Deal with it.

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Silfren wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

ahaha abominations rare thats good what next lore claiming that alrik was nice guy .

Sorry but that doesn't have sense abomnations aren't rare you can cry
and scream but simple everything that we seen shows otherwise if devs
had vision that abomnations are rare they failed awfully without
rectcons they can't change that.

Abominations ARE rare, per the lore.  Full stop.  I've already referenced the lore saying as much, but here, I'll spell it out.

Codex Entry on Abominations "Thankfully, abominations are rare."

World of Thedas, page 172. "Although rare, abominations are usually created when a mage of weak constitution enters the Fade and is directly exposed to a demon's influence."

And before you say it, I've ALREADY addressed the Broken Circle and Kirkwall.  They were unusual situations and cannot be used as evidence of what is typical.

Beyond that, I would agree that Bioware should have made--and kept--actual abominations as a rare mob to fight in either game, but as it is, there IS the argument that gameplay can't/shouldn't be used to argue against the lore.  And whether you accept it or not, that abominations are rare IS what the lore plainly states.

As i said lore can say that arlik was nice guy claiming that abomnations are rare is just ridiculous and untrue.

Which is the most idiotic argument you could make since the lore does NOT say that.  It does f*ck all to refute my point.  I am not simply claiming that abominations are rare.  I showed you the lore that says flat out that they are. 

Argue that the game mechanics seem to contradict the lore if you want, but you don't get to pretend tthat I'm making a baseless claim, and you also don't get to pretend that the lore doesn't exist just because you personally think it's wrong.  Deal with it.

Dude you arguing with you looks that
Me "arlik is rapist"
You "not lore says that he isn't"
Me"but we saw that he is"
you "lore lore lore gameplay mechanic doesn't count"
me"what do you even know what gameplay and story is and that they are two different things?"
you"noooo gameplay don't count"
me"sigh"

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Dude you arguing with you looks that
Me "arlik is rapist"
You "not lore says that he isn't"
Me"but we saw that he is"
you "lore lore lore gameplay mechanic doesn't count"
me"what do you even know what gameplay and story is and that they are two different things?"
you"noooo gameplay don't count"
me"sigh"

I got here late, but I don't believe Silfren was arguing the lore says Alrik isn't a rapist. I believe that was you trying to make her (edit: or their, now that I've caught up) argument ridiculous.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:37 .

[ScarMK]

TheKomandorShepard wrote..

It doesn't help when your posts are incredibly hard to read.  Your spelling and grammar is on par with a 10 year old.

[Hellion Rex]

ScarMK wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote..

It doesn't help when your posts are incredibly hard to read.  Your spelling and grammar is on par with a 10 year old.

Language barrier, Scar. Let's not be mean, please.

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yeah Wilhelm was hated as far i remember by his neighbors and was only tolerated because everyone feared him. :whistle:You mean his son he wasn't mage as far i remember.As i said you are hero as long peoples need you when they don't they will hate you that was in adners case.

You remember incorrectly.  Both Wilhelm and his son Matthias were mages.  On this the lore is clear and there is no argument to be had. 

Where is it ever indicated anywhere that Wilhelm was hated to the point where he was only tolerated out of fear?  I don't recall an such evidence that this was the case, but I am nevertheless compelled to point out to you that it kind of refutes your own claim, since clearly nobody killed Wilhelm in his sleep.

But now you say it's just because he was a hero to the people.  I wouldn't argue with that because it's true that people will appreciate someone a lot more when that person has a history of helping their community.  I'm not sure you are aware, however, that you're NOT helping your own case, because it is, regardless of people's reasons, a case of people not hating a mage to the point of wanting to kill them in their sleep.

"Many people in Kirkwall were willing to risk Templar wrath in order to help mages.":lol:

I guess you missed the many instances in DA2 of people expressing contempt for the templars.  When you approach Lirene's Imports to ask about him, you're later approached by a mob willing to fight you to the death to protect Anders from being reported to the Templars.  Cullen refers to Kirkwall citizens no longer being willing to help the Templars track down rogue mages and in fact being, prepared to actively resist such efforts.  The game is littered with references to people going out of their way to protect individual mages.  So I don't know what you mean by responding with , but that, again, is solid lore and you can't pretend it isn't there.

Dalish and rivani treat their mages as superior something like primitive culture do with other fantasy put them as shamans. 

Which does nothing to refute my point and much to support it.  I wouldn't say that the Dalish or Rivain actually consider mages to be inherently superior to them, though. But even if that's the case, it remains an example of people who do not hate their mages and want to kill them. 

"Then there are people like Kester, who think that the Maker created mages for a reason.  Mages have parents, children, siblings, and spouses who love them and don't fear or hate them."
Yeah few most leaves them after they are taken to the circle and well thedas don't help that almost every person is religious and religious peoples just love burn peoples on stakes with chantry stance that magic is curse.

Irrelevant.  I named examples of people who don't think mages are inheretly evil. 

And, yet again, I'm going to ask you to make an effort to cut down the size of your posts.  There's need to keep quoting material we've already addressed.  And it has NOTHING to do with how many quotes you're quoting, but the overall size of the post itself.  Please do the courteous thing and keep them reasonable.  So far, you have not.

[ScarMK]

eluvianix wrote...
Language barrier, Scar. Let's not be mean, please.

This is the internet where there are a wide variety of translators at one's finger tips, they may not be perfect, but they do well enough that someone can get a gist of what one is saying.  Language barrier is not an excuse.  But, I will stop here since you asked nicely.

Modifié par ScarMK, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:43 .

[Silfren]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Dude you arguing with you looks that
Me "arlik is rapist"
You "not lore says that he isn't"
Me"but we saw that he is"
you "lore lore lore gameplay mechanic doesn't count"
me"what do you even know what gameplay and story is and that they are two different things?"
you"noooo gameplay don't count"
me"sigh"

Oh, don't even...!

YOU are trying to use "the lore could totally say that alrik is a nice guy but that won't make it true,"  to argue against the FACT that the lore DOES say abominations are rare.  I am saying that the lore does NOT say anything about him being a nice guy so your entire attempt at using this hypothetical for your argument is invalid from the start.

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:43 .

[Silfren]

ScarMK wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Language barrier, Scar. Let's not be mean, please.

This is the internet where there are a wide variety of translators at one's finger tips, they may not be perfect, but they do well enough that someone can get a gist of what one is saying.  Language barrier is not an excuse.  But, I will stop here since you asked nicely.

Online translators are crap, in my experience, and only marginally more coherent than a person struggling with a language they don't know so well, so it's not necessarily a viable alternative.  I would agree that there's no need to bash someone for not having full command of the language, even though I get frustrated over it, too.  Thank you for letting it be.

[Silfren]

I'm charging my camera battery as we speak. When it's done, I'm armed with whipped cream, batter, and frying oil.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

I'm charging my camera battery as we speak. When it's done, I'm armed with whipped cream, batter, and frying oil.

Ummm....
Down girl?

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I'm charging my camera battery as we speak. When it's done, I'm armed with whipped cream, batter, and frying oil.

Ummm....
Down girl?

Dude.  I'm gonna deep-fry whipped cream, and you can't stop me!

Wait.  Did you somehow miss last night's food detour?

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:58 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Wait.  Did you somehow miss last night's food detour?

I wonder how that post would sound in that context?

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 04 décembre 2013 - 08:59 .

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...
Rare is rare. What we saw in the games are nothing but gameplay... to entertain us with action.

And rare doesn't men "non-existant"
Rare though they maybe, Abominations still exist. And measures should be taken to ensure the damage caused by them is lessened.

The Crows still profit off of murder no matter how many years of experience they have. Murder is murder.

 I'm not disagreeing that the Crows aren't morally upstanding citizens. But they are not as dangerous as mages nor are their actions as devastating as those of Abominations.

What happen at Redcliff was the fault of the parents. You as a pro-templar should knowledge that what  Arl Eamon and Isolde did was highly illegal, for harboring a blood mage that is wanted by the templars.  They took him in and they had him tutor their secret mage child. That is punishable by death. Jowan was nowhere in the postion to teach. If you get things from the blackmarket to save money don't expect quality.

So...what? Do you agree Connor should have been sent to the Circle in the first place?

You confuse me. Are you implying that if mages are free that the "normals" will lose their lives? Where did you get this idea from anyways? Can you direct me to a codex or send me a link to Davids twitter or post that confirms this? Im afraid you're voicing your opinion because it's been proven that mages and "normals" can coexist with each other. Look at Hawke and Amell. Old man Hawke was a blood mage apostate, and all he did was produce 2 children and wanted to live a normal life with his wife, a normal.

Look, once and for all, I am NOT saying that mages have a greater tendency towards harmful actions than normal people do. They have the same, yes.
And this means that, even if there are many mages who might do nothing but live normal lives if given the chance, there are also a great many number of mages who would abuse their powers. And then there is also the fact that mages can have their bodies taken over by demons in which case, it won't matter how righteous the mage may or may not be. He'll become a force of destruction.
So, will ALL mages harm normal people if given freedom? No but many will. Both out of their own volution and not. This is simply unavoidable.
Therefore, my question is as follows.
We know that if a mage is sent to the Circle, that mages will have their freedoms greatly diminished. And we also know that if a mage becomes an Abomination, many normal, innocent people will die.
Based on this, why is it that what mages stand to lose (their freedom), is more valuable than what normals stand to lose (their lives)?

As far as Connor goes I've already explained it on top.

It's a good example. Because Isolde couldn't be separated from her child, many Redcliff children lost their parents.

Modifié par MisterJB, 04 décembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Wait.  Did you somehow miss last night's food detour?

I wonder how that post would sound in that context?

Started slightly more than halfway down page 12.  Worth the read, especially Plaintiff's reaction on about page 16 to American Southerners' tendency to deep fry everything we can get our hot little hands on.

Modifié par Silfren, 04 décembre 2013 - 09:01 .

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Wait.  Did you somehow miss last night's food detour?

I wonder how that post would sound in that context?

Started slightly more than halfway down page 12.  Worth the read, especially Plaintiff's reaction on about page 16 to American Southerners' tendency to deep fry everything we can get our hot little hands on.

Oh. I thought you were gonna attack that poster you were fighting with earlier. My bad...

[Cainhurst Crow]

Post those pics man. Dont leavr us hangin.

[Lord Raijin]

Silfren, Are you Andraste? You've saved me a lot of time and trouble explaining the facts. I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself over and over again. It's tiresome.

Without a doubt some of the Pro-templars on this forum are so closed minded that when you try to show them facts and lore proving them that they're wrong, they still disagree with it. It's unbelievable that it's not even funny anymore.

The fact is abominations are RARE by fact of lore yet the pro-Templar's think that every mage who is free will become an abomination, and kill the innocent "normal" people.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Silfren, Are you Andraste? You've saved me a lot of time and trouble explaining the facts. I'm getting tired of having to repeat myself over and over again. It's tiresome.

Without a doubt some of the Pro-templars on this forum are so closed minded that when you try to show them facts and lore proving them that they're wrong, they still disagree with it. It's unbelievable that it's not even funny anymore.

The fact is abominations are RARE by fact of lore yet the pro-Templar's think that every mage who is free will become an abomination, and kill the innocent "normal" people.

Granted, much of DA2 was spent fighting too many God damn blood mages and abominations. I thought Broken Circle in DAO was ok, but DA2's amount was just freaking ridiculous.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Wait.  Did you somehow miss last night's food detour?

I wonder how that post would sound in that context?

Started slightly more than halfway down page 12.  Worth the read, especially Plaintiff's reaction on about page 16 to American Southerners' tendency to deep fry everything we can get our hot little hands on.

Oh. I thought you were gonna attack that poster you were fighting with earlier. My bad...

.....Are you suggesting I would waste deep-fry batter in such a fashion? How dare you!  What kind of a woman do you think I am?!?