1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They can't. Otherwise they wouldn't let Hawke, Merrill, Anders and Bethany walk around freely in the Gallows and Kirkwall in general. Or all the other Apostates there for that matter.

DAII is the same game that had Templars unable to sense Veil disturbances when DAO clearly established this as part of a Templar's repertoire, per Ser Otto and a Templar Warden's comment following what Ser Otto says.

I'd hardly treat DAII as evidence of anything.

DAII's the same game that has a Templar, on the Docks, say "I seek any information on suspected apostates" when you could literally cast magic in front of his friggin' face.

Malcolm taught me well. 

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Wait. Am I the only one who remembers that some poor shmuck passed out from the deep-fried food earlier, and never actually came to?

Oh, yeah. Food coma. Called an ambulance for that guy hours ago.

Did it ever show up?

[ScarMK]

 If I recall right, it was your deep fried food he passed out from.  So...possible murder.  

[Silfren]

ScarMK wrote...

 If I recall right, it was your deep fried food he passed out from.  So...possible murder.  

But all he did was look at it!  I can't be held responsible for that!

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:23 .

[Silfren]

Br3ad wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They can't. Otherwise they wouldn't let Hawke, Merrill, Anders and Bethany walk around freely in the Gallows and Kirkwall in general. Or all the other Apostates there for that matter.

DAII is the same game that had Templars unable to sense Veil disturbances when DAO clearly established this as part of a Templar's repertoire, per Ser Otto and a Templar Warden's comment following what Ser Otto says.

I'd hardly treat DAII as evidence of anything.

DAII's the same game that has a Templar, on the Docks, say "I seek any information on suspected apostates" when you could literally cast magic in front of his friggin' face.

Malcolm taught me well. 

Did he make the templars deaf, blind, and stupid, too? 

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:23 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And there is no way to detect a mage. So you can very easily accuse someone of being an Apostate. I'd imagine when the case gets particularly foggy, that the Templars would have to make the decission of either leaving the accused be, and risking eltting a mage free, or take him to a place like Aeonar, and see if he actually is a mage or not.

Since when is there no way to detect a mage?  I thought it was part of the established lore that Templars could indeed detect a mage.  What they cannot detect is the active use of blood magic.

They can't. Otherwise they wouldn't let Hawke, Merrill, Anders and Bethany walk around freely in the Gallows and Kirkwall in general. Or all the other Apostates there for that matter.
What is in question is wether or not a Templar can sense trace amount of magic, since we got Ser Otto in Ferelden who claims he could "sense" foul magic around the Alienage. Though that might just be boiled down to good intuition, or him being a bit of a looney (you don't get a claim to sanity when you in near blind condition want to fight demons).

I really thought that Templars could sense magic, but I certainly don't think we can use Hawke or any of her associates as proof of this one way or the other, and you know better than that anyway, given that you know just as well as the rest of us that the only reason the Templars don't recognize them as mages is because the plot didn't let them.  Nothing to do with not sensing magic.

The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They can't. Otherwise they wouldn't let Hawke, Merrill, Anders and Bethany walk around freely in the Gallows and Kirkwall in general. Or all the other Apostates there for that matter.

DAII is the same game that had Templars unable to sense Veil disturbances when DAO clearly established this as part of a Templar's repertoire, per Ser Otto and a Templar Warden's comment following what Ser Otto says.

I'd hardly treat DAII as evidence of anything.

DAII's the same game that has a Templar, on the Docks, say "I seek any information on suspected apostates" when you could literally cast magic in front of his friggin' face.

EDIT: As he's saying that!

DA2 would have been a very short game if the Templars were to react to any stupidity from the players' side.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Yes, there would.  It would simply be a matter of keeping your distance.  Bethany herself states that she had to know who the templars were so that she could run and hide.  I took that to mean she couldn't simply interact with them because they'd be able to sense her magic.  If it was just a matter of taking care not to cast spells where templars could sence magical energy, then I wouldn't think she would need to actively avoid Templars at all. 

Also, note that Ser Bryant recognizes a mage warden as such.  You could dismiss it as him noticing the robes and staff, but I always figured the entire purpose of that line was to tell players that templars could sense the magic within a mage.

DA2 would have been a very short game if the Templars were to react to any stupidity from the players' side.

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:31 .

[Br3admax]

Silfren wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They can't. Otherwise they wouldn't let Hawke, Merrill, Anders and Bethany walk around freely in the Gallows and Kirkwall in general. Or all the other Apostates there for that matter.

DAII is the same game that had Templars unable to sense Veil disturbances when DAO clearly established this as part of a Templar's repertoire, per Ser Otto and a Templar Warden's comment following what Ser Otto says.

I'd hardly treat DAII as evidence of anything.

DAII's the same game that has a Templar, on the Docks, say "I seek any information on suspected apostates" when you could literally cast magic in front of his friggin' face.

Malcolm taught me well. 

Did he make the templars deaf, blind, and stupid, too? 

Illusions. 

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren, riddle me this. If they could sense mages, why in the world would they need a phylactery to track them down? Wouldn't they be able to theoretically "sniff" out the mages, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...
Illusions. 

In all honesty, we need more magic like this.

[PMC65]

Silfren wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

 If I recall right, it was your deep fried food he passed out from.  So...possible murder.  

But all he did was look at it!  I can't be held responsible for that!

*comes to, looks at fried heaven buffet, passes out*

[TEWR]

DA2 would have been a very short game if the Templars were to react to any stupidity from the players' side.

Given that the devs had originally intended for the Templars to notice but they couldn't implement that because of time constraints, you really can't say "It's for the players' enjoyment!".

The Templars of Kirkwall (most) are grossly incompetent at doing their job, if they're not abusing the mages there.

Or even the Tranquil (and I ain't talking about Alrik here. Tranquil shop owner in the Gallows gets beaten if other people steal her merchandise).

Also, note that Ser Bryant recognizes a mage warden as such. You could dismiss it as him noticing the robes and staff, but I always figured the entire purpose of that line was to tell players that templars could sense the magic within a mage.

More then likely so, given that the line would probably still trigger for a Warden Mage wearing armor and using conventional weaponry.

[TEWR]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren, riddle me this. If they could sense mages, why in the world would they need a phylactery to track them down? Wouldn't they be able to theoretically "sniff" out the mages, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

Phylacteries help minimize the distance. A mage could be out in the wilderness and the Templars wouldn't know unless they used the phylactery.

You can hardly expect a Templar to be able to sense a mage from a thousand miles away. Since they glow brighter and brighter the closer they are to the mage in question -- my belief is that the blood is mixed with lyrium, which is known to glow (Javaris) -- I imagine there's a sort of base glow effect regardless of distance. Might be hard to see, but it's probably there.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:44 .

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren, riddle me this. If they could sense mages, why in the world would they need a phylactery to track them down? Wouldn't they be able to theoretically "sniff" out the mages, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

Phylacteries help minimize the distance. A mage could be out in the wilderness and the Templars wouldn't know unless they used the phylactery.

You can hardly expect a Templar to be able to sense a mage from a thousand miles away.

What Evil said. 

[Silfren]

PMC65 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

 If I recall right, it was your deep fried food he passed out from.  So...possible murder.  

But all he did was look at it!  I can't be held responsible for that!

*comes to, looks at fried heaven buffet, passes out*

*glares*  You!  Don't you dare die over my food!  I'll kill you myself! 

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren, riddle me this. If they could sense mages, why in the world would they need a phylactery to track them down? Wouldn't they be able to theoretically "sniff" out the mages, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

Phylacteries help minimize the distance. A mage could be out in the wilderness and the Templars wouldn't know unless they used the phylactery.

You can hardly expect a Templar to be able to sense a mage from a thousand miles away. Since they glow brighter and brighter the closer they are to the mage in question -- my belief is that the blood is mixed with lyrium, which is known to glow (Javaris) -- I imagine there's a sort of base glow effect regardless of distance. Might be hard to see, but it's probably there.

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Silfren wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

 If I recall right, it was your deep fried food he passed out from.  So...possible murder.  

But all he did was look at it!  I can't be held responsible for that!

*comes to, looks at fried heaven buffet, passes out*

*glares*  You!  Don't you dare die over my food!  I'll kill you myself! 

Yes, die over her food.
Cause mine would be so much better.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren, riddle me this. If they could sense mages, why in the world would they need a phylactery to track them down? Wouldn't they be able to theoretically "sniff" out the mages, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

Phylacteries help minimize the distance. A mage could be out in the wilderness and the Templars wouldn't know unless they used the phylactery.

You can hardly expect a Templar to be able to sense a mage from a thousand miles away. Since they glow brighter and brighter the closer they are to the mage in question -- my belief is that the blood is mixed with lyrium, which is known to glow (Javaris) -- I imagine there's a sort of base glow effect regardless of distance. Might be hard to see, but it's probably there.

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Meh, hypocritcal or not, I would still say it is very handy against a maleficar.

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Wait, really? Where was the idea of casting spells using a phylactery brought up? Because I agree that it smacks of hypocrisy more then just "magic blood in a vial".

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:49 .

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Silfren wrote...

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Wait, really? Where was the idea of casting spells using a phylactery brought up? Because I agree that it smacks of hypocrisy more then just "magic blood in a vial".

World of Thedas, I believe.  Lemme dig it out.

ETA: Found it.  Page 100. 

"Every Circle apprentice provides a sample of blood to be kept in a phylactery, a special vial imbued with magic. The phylactery can be used to track down or even remotely cast a spell on a fugitive mage. 

The holder of a mage's phylactery essentially controls that mage."

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:54 .

[Ryzaki]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Actually one of the templars in the Chantry is suspicious of Morrigan but let's it go with a don't start some won't be none attitude. Pretty sure he suspected she wasn't normal he just didn't have time to be bothered.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:58 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Silfren wrote...

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

But Cullen DID find out Hawke was a mage... And not by "sensing" him.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Meh, hypocritcal or not, I would still say it is very handy against a maleficar.

Sure, and I think it's a good idea, certainly.  But I'm not okay with the Chantry refusing to acknowledge that it is applying blood magic.  I'd have more respect if the Chantry simply taught that blood magic was dangerous and something to be wary of, without condemning it across the board, since it DOES have legitimately benign applications--and, y'know, the Chantry is more than willing to use it when it suits its own ends.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

But Cullen DID find out Hawke was a mage... And not by "sensing" him.

Which means nothing since Cullen and the other templars should have been able to figure it out by the fact that Hawke was using magic with abandon.  Someone like Thrask or the old templar suffering from advanced lyrium addiction might have let it slide, but there's no way that Meredith or Cullen or the hard-liners like Alrik or Kerras would have let it go.

[Ryzaki]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

But Cullen DID find out Hawke was a mage... And not by "sensing" him.

Which means nothing since Cullen and the other templars should have been able to figure it out by the fact that Hawke was using magic with abandon.  Someone like Thrask or the old templar suffering from advanced lyrium addiction might have let it slide, but there's no way that Meredith or Cullen or the hard-liners like Alrik or Kerras would have let it go.

To be fair Alrik you kill and Kerras doesn't actually see you use magic (and if he does see you use it you kill him with it).

What boggles my mind is why Grace doesn't snitch on you after threatening too. It's not like she has any qualms about screwing you over.