1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Meh, hypocritcal or not, I would still say it is very handy against a maleficar.

Sure, and I think it's a good idea, certainly.  But I'm not okay with the Chantry refusing to acknowledge that it is applying blood magic.  I'd have more respect if the Chantry simply taught that blood magic was dangerous and something to be wary of, without condemning it across the board, since it DOES have legitimately benign applications--and, y'know, the Chantry is more than willing to use it when it suits its own ends.

As Justinia puts it, "A convenient tale, so we may sleep better at night."
God, I love this Divine more and more each time I read Asunder. She had some great dialogue.

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

But Cullen DID find out Hawke was a mage... And not by "sensing" him.

Which means nothing since Cullen and the other templars should have been able to figure it out by the fact that Hawke was using magic with abandon.  Someone like Thrask or the old templar suffering from advanced lyrium addiction might have let it slide, but there's no way that Meredith or Cullen or the hard-liners like Alrik or Kerras would have let it go.

To be fair Alrik you kill and Kerras doesn't actually see you use magic (and if he does see you use it you kill him with it).

What boggles my mind is why Grace doesn't snitch on you after threatening too. It's not like she has any qualms about screwing you over.

Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ryzaki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Actually one of the templars in the Chantry is suspicious of Morrigan but let's it go with a don't start some won't be none attitude. Pretty sure he suspected she wasn't normal he just didn't have time to be bothered.

I know that, however it doesn't prove that Templars can sense mages. On the contrary, If he could "sense" she was a mage, he would have apprehended her right there and then. All he could was suspect her.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

You can also use their phylacteries to cast spells on them from a distance, which makes it an even more hypocritical use of blood magic, in my view.

Meh, hypocritcal or not, I would still say it is very handy against a maleficar.

Sure, and I think it's a good idea, certainly.  But I'm not okay with the Chantry refusing to acknowledge that it is applying blood magic.  I'd have more respect if the Chantry simply taught that blood magic was dangerous and something to be wary of, without condemning it across the board, since it DOES have legitimately benign applications--and, y'know, the Chantry is more than willing to use it when it suits its own ends.

As Justinia puts it, "A convenient tale, so we may sleep better at night."
God, I love this Divine more and more each time I read Asunder. She had some great dialogue.

I like her for the most part, too, but there's still some discrepancy in her character.  I'd like to know how the woman we meet in Asunder can possibly be the same woman who was, according to Leliana, willing to raze Kirkwall to the ground.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Not the point; what is the point is that you can't use Cullen's failure to recognize Hawke as a mage as proof of templars lacking that ability, given all the ways that DA2 gameplay blatantly disregards lore.

But Cullen DID find out Hawke was a mage... And not by "sensing" him.

Which means nothing since Cullen and the other templars should have been able to figure it out by the fact that Hawke was using magic with abandon.  Someone like Thrask or the old templar suffering from advanced lyrium addiction might have let it slide, but there's no way that Meredith or Cullen or the hard-liners like Alrik or Kerras would have let it go.

To be fair Alrik you kill and Kerras doesn't actually see you use magic (and if he does see you use it you kill him with it).

What boggles my mind is why Grace doesn't snitch on you after threatening too. It's not like she has any qualms about screwing you over.

Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

Unless of course Templars, as all evidence points towards, CAN'T sense mages..

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Actually one of the templars in the Chantry is suspicious of Morrigan but let's it go with a don't start some won't be none attitude. Pretty sure he suspected she wasn't normal he just didn't have time to be bothered.

I know that, however it doesn't prove that Templars can sense mages. On the contrary, If he could "sense" she was a mage, he would have apprehended her right there and then. All he could was suspect her.

Not really.  In that scenario, there's a plausible reason why the templars might have other concerns, especially with Ser Bryant's apparent respect for the Wardens being exempted from Chantry authority.  As Ryzaki said, he did take the attitude of "don't start some won't be none." 

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:09 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Silfren wrote...

I like her for the most part, too, but there's still some discrepancy in her character.  I'd like to know how the woman we meet in Asunder can possibly be the same woman who was, according to Leliana, willing to raze Kirkwall to the ground.

She was contemplating it. Obviously she ultimately was unwilling to do so, since an Exalted March never happened.

[Steelcan]

I'm looking forward to another hypocrite playthrough.

Wonder if I can one up Hawke and get a blood mage made king or something.

[Hellion Rex]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I like her for the most part, too, but there's still some discrepancy in her character.  I'd like to know how the woman we meet in Asunder can possibly be the same woman who was, according to Leliana, willing to raze Kirkwall to the ground.

She was contemplating it. Obviously she ultimately was unwilling to do so, since an Exalted March never happened.

In fact, Leliana never uses the term Exalted March either. It was Elthina IIRC.

[Silfren]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

Unless of course Templars, as all evidence points towards, CAN'T sense mages..

*sigh*  Except that my point was that you can be obvious about being a mage, what with your robe and staff and the flinging of spells, and they don't recognize you even then.  Or, you know, how you blatantly cast spells about while on the quest where you meet Cullen, and later, even when you walk about the Gallows, he still says and does nothing.  None of that has anything to do with sensing mages at all, so it does nothing for your argument.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Actually one of the templars in the Chantry is suspicious of Morrigan but let's it go with a don't start some won't be none attitude. Pretty sure he suspected she wasn't normal he just didn't have time to be bothered.

I know that, however it doesn't prove that Templars can sense mages. On the contrary, If he could "sense" she was a mage, he would have apprehended her right there and then. All he could was suspect her.

It's possible that a situation akin to Fire Emblem Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn is afoot. In those games, the children of laguz (beastfolk of a sort) and beorc (humans) create Branded (part laguz, part beorc, but belonging to neither species though human in appearance with great capabilities). The laguz can sense the Branded if they're near them.

Some, however, cannot pinpoint what exactly is amiss, despite knowing something very much is. Most can, however.

And of course, the Templars had bigger fish to fry then worrying about mages. Those were Ser Bryant's orders. Focus on the evacuation effort.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:13 .

[Ryzaki]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
I know that, however it doesn't prove that Templars can sense mages. On the contrary, If he could "sense" she was a mage, he would have apprehended her right there and then. All he could was suspect her.

Actually the templars have a panicking populace and approaching horde to deal with it's quite easy to see why he just goes don't do anything to upset the peace and I'll be watching you. Even Sten was just thrown in a cage for the darkspawn or hungry/thirst to deal with and it was called a day. Heck even if you break Sten out their reaction is "ugh just don't start anything." they have way too much to deal with to be worried about one mage that's not causing a disturbance.

There's no time to be starting a unneeded fight when you've got far too many problems already to deal with.

Silfren wrote...
Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

The only time you can start a fight in the gallows is in act 3 I think (Well that and the beginning of the game but there's no templars hanging out there then.) So it makes plenty of sense mage Hawke can walk freely around the gallows. It's not like he/she is starting fires and crap.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:14 .

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I like her for the most part, too, but there's still some discrepancy in her character.  I'd like to know how the woman we meet in Asunder can possibly be the same woman who was, according to Leliana, willing to raze Kirkwall to the ground.

She was contemplating it. Obviously she ultimately was unwilling to do so, since an Exalted March never happened.

In fact, Leliana never uses the term Exalted March either. It was Elthina IIRC.

That she was contemplating it still doesn't seem to jive with the character of Justinia as shown in the book, even so. 

Elthina was the one who mentioned an Exalted March?  Now that is interesting indeed.  I always thought that Elthina was a manipulative old bat. 

Though Leliana does say something about not letting Kirkwall fall to magic.  I'd have to look at those scenes again, but it still doesn't do much to paint Justinia in the same light as from the book, Asunder.

[TEWR]

The
only time you can start a fight in the gallows is in act 3 I think
(Well that and the beginning of the game but there's no templars hanging
out there then.) So it makes plenty of sense mage Hawke can walk freely
around the gallows. It's not like he/she is starting fires and crap.

Well, there are certain magical abilities you can do at all times. Heal, Blood Magic, and a few others.

So.... yeah.

Plus, the Templars are pretty much in Hightown in Act 3.

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

The only time you can start a fight in the gallows is in act 3 I think (Well that and the beginning of the game but there's no templars hanging out there then.) So it makes plenty of sense mage Hawke can walk freely around the gallows. It's not like he/she is starting fires and crap.

Again, though, that doesn't explain Cullen.  Or, you know, the STAFF.  Even if Hawke walks around in plainclothes...you can't hide the damn staff in your pocket.

Why do people always forget the staff?

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:16 .

[TEWR]

Yeah, Cullen's pretty bad. About the only thing I could except is him knowing Hawke/Bethany is a Mage after that confrontation and though he tries to be all hard-liner now he lets Hawke/Bethany run about for the time being because of lingering sentiments.

But then that falls flat because of his "I've heard disturbing rumors about you/your sister, Hawke. I hope they're not true."

[TEWR]

Why do people always forget the staff?

It wouldn't even be so bad if we saw civilians with walking sticks.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Why do people always forget the staff?

It wouldn't even be so bad if we saw civilians with walking sticks.

I totally want a gold walking stick topped with a naked woman!  Somebody buy me one!

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I like her for the most part, too, but there's still some discrepancy in her character.  I'd like to know how the woman we meet in Asunder can possibly be the same woman who was, according to Leliana, willing to raze Kirkwall to the ground.

She was contemplating it. Obviously she ultimately was unwilling to do so, since an Exalted March never happened.

In fact, Leliana never uses the term Exalted March either. It was Elthina IIRC.

That she was contemplating it still doesn't seem to jive with the character of Justinia as shown in the book, even so. 

Elthina was the one who mentioned an Exalted March?  Now that is interesting indeed.  I always thought that Elthina was a manipulative old bat. 

Though Leliana does say something about not letting Kirkwall fall to magic.  I'd have to look at those scenes again, but it still doesn't do much to paint Justinia in the same light as from the book, Asunder.

Now that I think about it, Justinia had Pharamond begin experimenting 5 years before Asunder, right? Asunder is in 9:40, so that leaves Pharamond starting right around in 9:35. DA2 ends in what, 9:37? So the quest Faith, which takes place in Act 3 happens during 9:37 most likely...crap. Yeah, I am just gonna chalk it up to David not having written the book by the time all these other pieces were said and done. Because otherwise, that is a bit of an issue with her character.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Why do people always forget the staff?

It wouldn't even be so bad if we saw civilians with walking sticks.

I totally want a gold walking stick topped with a naked woman!  Somebody buy me one!

Vivienne was shown with one in the PAX demo so you might get your wish.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Silfren wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

Unless of course Templars, as all evidence points towards, CAN'T sense mages..

*sigh*  Except that my point was that you can be obvious about being a mage, what with your robe and staff and the flinging of spells, and they don't recognize you even then.  Or, you know, how you blatantly cast spells about while on the quest where you meet Cullen, and later, even when you walk about the Gallows, he still says and does nothing.  None of that has anything to do with sensing mages at all, so it does nothing for your argument.

Why do you expect the game lore to somehow be able to break the gameplay? The game was not PROGRAMMED to let Templars recognize a mage, even if they cast a spell right in front of them. Even right on TOP of them. That doesn't mean the Templars were blind and deaf, it simply means the developers thought that the players had the brainpower to either not do somehting as abjecly stupid or suspend their disbelief and realize it was a case of gameplay superceding lore...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The Templars of Lothering never took Morrigan for a mage either. And the Templars in DA2 did eventually find out about Hawke, Anders and Bethany. Not sure about Merrill...
The thing is, that Apostates should be even more rare if Templars could actually sense wether or not they were mages. There would be no hiding from them.

Actually one of the templars in the Chantry is suspicious of Morrigan but let's it go with a don't start some won't be none attitude. Pretty sure he suspected she wasn't normal he just didn't have time to be bothered.

I know that, however it doesn't prove that Templars can sense mages. On the contrary, If he could "sense" she was a mage, he would have apprehended her right there and then. All he could was suspect her.

It's possible that a situation akin to Fire Emblem Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn is afoot. In those games, the children of laguz (beastfolk of a sort) and beorc (humans) create Branded (part laguz, part beorc, but belonging to neither species though human in appearance with great capabilities). The laguz can sense the Branded if they're near them.

Some, however, cannot pinpoint what exactly is amiss, despite knowing something very much is. Most can, however.

And of course, the Templars had bigger fish to fry then worrying about mages. Those were Ser Bryant's orders. Focus on the evacuation effort.

If the Templars are able to sense ambient magic and trace amounts of it, that would explain why a Templar would be able to recognize a mage. After casting a spell the mage could possibly still have some lingering magical residue around them, which the Templars could react to. However, there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL, that suggests a Templar can sense a mage jedi-style.
The only cases we got of Templars recognizing mages, is where the Mage has either cast a spell right in front of him, the Templar has found out through investigation, or is left ambiguous and unexplained.
If you bring up Ser Bryant, then please point me to the part where he specifically says that all Templars can sense mages, because I sure don't remember him saying so. All he says is "I'd be a poor Templar if I couldn't recognize a mage when I see one", or something to that effect. Basically he just say that with experience comes intuition.

Templars are not Jedi.

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, there are certain magical abilities you can do at all times. Heal, Blood Magic, and a few others.

So.... yeah.

Plus, the Templars are pretty much in Hightown in Act 3.

Well yeah but I'm pretty sure the game assumes you're Hawke's smart enough to *not* spam those abilities in front of a horde of templars. That's kind of Darwin Award material.

though a critical mission failure if you activated bloodmagic *would* be amusing.

Silfren wrote...
Again, though, that doesn't explain Cullen.  Or, you know, the STAFF.  Even if Hawke walks around in plainclothes...you can't hide the damn staff in your pocket.

Why do people always forget the staff?

Cullen's explained by plot dumb. All staffs don't look the same plus mine looked like a blade on a stick. Just because polearms seem unnecessarily abscent in gameplay doesn't mean no one uses them (Dwarves for instance have staves and I'm pretty sure they don't use magic with them).

As for all templars not being able to sense mages that makes sense. Only the decent templars can.

It could also be explained by Kirkwall being a hellmouth. There's so much torn veil crap already there the templar's natural mage sensing abilities are all over the place so they tend to ignore them.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:25 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Well, given that a mage Hawke can traipse about the Gallows, I figure that those templars would probably be hanging about the area too.  There's no way to rationalize it.  It makes no sense that a mage Hawke can walk freely about the Gallows without being accosted by templars and dragged into the Circle.

The only time you can start a fight in the gallows is in act 3 I think (Well that and the beginning of the game but there's no templars hanging out there then.) So it makes plenty of sense mage Hawke can walk freely around the gallows. It's not like he/she is starting fires and crap.

Again, though, that doesn't explain Cullen.  Or, you know, the STAFF.  Even if Hawke walks around in plainclothes...you can't hide the damn staff in your pocket.

Why do people always forget the staff?

Don't forget that we know Varric to be an unreliable narrator. My personal theory is that this is an example of that, and that Hawke dressed in normal civilian clothes and carried either a walking stick or an enchanted knife. Cullen's a bit harder, though.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:25 .

[TEWR]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Why do people always forget the staff?

It wouldn't even be so bad if we saw civilians with walking sticks.

I totally want a gold walking stick topped with a naked woman!  Somebody buy me one!

Vivienne was shown with one in the PAX demo so you might get your wish.

Vivienne's is just Malcolm's Honor.

And I wonder how the hell she got that. For now, I'm assuming reused skin for the purposes of the Alpha Demo.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Why do people always forget the staff?

It wouldn't even be so bad if we saw civilians with walking sticks.

I totally want a gold walking stick topped with a naked woman!  Somebody buy me one!

Vivienne was shown with one in the PAX demo so you might get your wish.

.....You are not listening to me.  I want a REAL gold walking stick capped with a naked woman.  Not some cheap virtual pixelated thing!