[quote]EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The resolutionist WERE behind much of it. It is heavily implied that all illegal mage activities can be traced back to them.[/quote]
I don't see how. The only person who claims that is Leliana.
[quote]And how do you know that Lelianna left immediately afterwards? Do you kow how long she had been in Kirkwall beforehand? Do you know anything about what her MO was?[/quote]
Well, we know she's back in Val Royeaux in 9:38 Dragon, plus her dialogue IIRC on how she's going to inform Justinia V immediately of it. And, of course, if she had still been there when things went to hell then WHY DID SHE WAIT TWO YEARS TO INVESTIGATE.
[quote]
It is entirely irrelevant and blown way out of proportion. She doesn't assume that mages are the source of problem. She says they are PART of the problem. Obviously the resolutionists ARE a problem.[/quote]
But that's still a problematic assertion to make by saying they ARE the problem rather then simply PART of the problem, because it tries to wipe away all possible guilt from other parties, namely the Chantry and the Templars.
[quote]
Just give me ONE, ONE hard quote from lore or from developer that states that it is illegal for a Templar to control a city. Just ONE. They may not hold any titles, but last I checked Meredith never took the title of Viscount, so that law was never broken.[/quote]
Fair enough, though 1) I don't see why we need a dev quote when we have two cases telling us this (Evangeline was offered the choice to reclaim it IF she retired as being a Templar) and 2) just because people find a way to circumvent the law only barely doesn't mean, to me, they shouldn't be held accountable if they're doing the same thing as they would if they had broken it entirely (not necessarily punished for it because they're not committing a crime
exactly, but not given a free pass either). Really, why not just tell Meredith "Step the **** down."?
[quote]The City Guard was left decimated after the Qunari incident, and Meredith and her Templars stepped up and ceased control of the city, that was rapidly decending into chaos.[/quote]
Yet they -- the Templars -- can't even manage to police Hightown or any part of Kirkwall proper, where two out of the three gangs have something nefariously arcane going on with them (the Bloodragers and Followers of She).
Keeping order is only worthy of mention if order's
actually attempted to be kept, rather then just saying "We're keeping order!"
[quote]At this time Lelianna has no reason to suspect any kind of foulplay here. There was a magical problem. Templars was trying to deal with it. The problem here being?[/quote]
The problem being she was tasked with investigating the situation, not making assumptions about the situation. A thorough investigator would've looked at all the
[quote]
There were already clear reasons as to why the Templars took control of Kirkwall, and they were almost all of them loyal to Meredith. If she by chance had come across the traitors, she would be more likely to apprehend them, than aid them. As would be her duty, since Meredith had done nothing wrong yet.[/quote]
What traitors? I'm simply talking about talking to both sides and seeing differing opinions. Besides, Thrask can hardly be called a traitor because he's not seeking the dissolution of the Circle but rather reformation (rather poorly by supporting blood magic, but I hate how that quest was handled so friggin' much).
Let's not forget that Meredith tasked Ser Mettin with leading a hit squad formed of zealots and "purging" mage sympathizers (something we see firsthand in the Templar side quest where he's on a different mission yet wants to do the same exact thing to people that surrendered).
That's illegal. Arresting them, legal. Murdering them in the streets, illegal.
And her gross negligence on the part of Tranquil popping up. That's pretty much grounds for her removal as well. If she can't control her own Templars and can't investigate crimes against the Mages occurring underneath her own fingertips, then she's a poor leader.
[quote]
Who would she question exactly to get intimate knowledge about how Hawke came to means? Varric? Anders? Maybe Isabela? Not many around who would be willing to sell Hawke out.[/quote]
It's common knowledge by that point that Hawke led an expedition, got rich, was involved in the Qunari crisis, and earned his Champion status by means of dealing with the Arishok's attack.
Don't see why she would have to go digging around in the dirt as if it's some sort of major secret.
[quote]For that matter Hawke had not yet played a big role in the mage-Templar conflcit of Kirkwall, so why would she even bother with Hawke?[/quote]
Because although he hasn't played a part
yet, he's still tied to the backdrop that led to the current situation.
[quote]And what exactly has happened over the past six years in Kirkwall that is oh so horrible that it begs for more investigation into how Hawke came to means?[/quote]
Hawke and Varric attaining the spoils of an expedition while Bartrand came back, at best, a raving lunatic from something he obtained and at worst all of that and dead?
Nathaniel Howe and the First Warden heard about Hawke going deeper into the Deep Roads then ANYONE had ever been able to before. Chances are Leliana would've either heard about this or easily found it out.
[quote]
How and why? Investigate what on which motivation? She was not there to investigate the Templars, so suddenly changing her focus from the mages, which she was sent to investigate, would seem kind of counter-productive for her MO.[/quote]
Her task was to investigate
Kirkwall. That necessitates investigating everything that could
possibly be contributing to the growing tensions.
[quote]
You are saying that she should, through meta-gaming and some idea of what
you would have done, have done what you wanted her to do, based on knowledge you ahve no way of knowing she had, could act on, or even cared about.[/quote]
Not metagaming. Just being a thorough investigator.
[quote]She had a mission: investigate mages in Kirkwall.[/quote]
No, her task was to investigate Kirkwall's growing problems itself, not go in there assuming one party was the clear party was clearly the reason behind everything.
That's literally why Elthina has you go there. Leliana was tasked with investigating
Kirkwall. Not Mages in Kirkwall. Just Kirkwall.
But Leliana came in and assumed Resolutionists were the cause of all the problems there, rather then simply exacerbating the problems within the city.
[quote]
Cassandra's investigation is about Hawke, after it is realized that Hawke was a big player in the whole deal. Before the Gallows incident, he was "just" the Champion. A particularly skilled warrior or apostate that had helped Kirkwall in its our of need. Before that he was a nobody, and after that he didn't do much to garner attention. Only after the tales of what had happened in the Gallows did Hawke attain any form of infamy.
But then again, Hawke was never the focus of Lelianna's investigation, so I fail to see why she should focus on him and fail her actual mission. For all we know, through her investigation she learned that Hawke was important, and the Divine then sent out a new mission to investigate Hawke.[/quote]
You're misreading everything. I'm not saying "Focus on Hawke". I'm saying "learn a bit about him because his actions in the Qunari attack are connected, even tangentially, to these problems that are going on now.
[quote]
The only side that lacked representation was the moderate. Though Hawke could also try, thorughout act 3, to mediate a peace between Templars and Mages, it just didn't work out in the end, because Anders wanted to be a dick.
[/quote]
Hawke was tasked with being a grunt throughout the entire thing.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 décembre 2013 - 02:15 .
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