1858 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Threat300 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

why is it wrong to imprison mages? their dangerous to themselves & others around them, 1 child was able to almost wipe out a village thanks to not getting sent to the circle.

It's not wrong to take steps to ensure the safety of society at large.  But the Circles have been horribly abused.  Where does one draw the line?

Keeping the circles is better imo, when the tevinter mages were allowed to police themselves, the magisters re took control

True and not true but circles aren't very effective just see how often we see abomnation running around.But when we will ask what is better mage will tell that he would like tevinter more non-mage that he prefer circles for mages everyone cares for himself so what is better depends where you stand.

[Br3admax]

Silfren wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

We already have Force Mage. Add to that some martial training and we can make an order of force mage monks. They will work just fine with some tranquil war monks.

Mana swords will be next.

The templars already do this. Evangeline sends lyrium energy in her sword when she fights that mage that attacks The Divine in the beginnig of the book ( it think ). Her sword starts to emanate tiny blue lyrium sparks.

You're proving the point with this, guys.

I'm pretty sure that was their intention.

When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...
When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

Ok, admittedly, that was not my brightest moment. I had just finished a long a** exam and was tired out of mind. So yes, I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. But that doesn't make it a "problem" as you seem to dub it.

[Vulpe]

eluvianix wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

What if we turned the mages into something similar to the Jedi......

Ignore the crappy philosophy behind them, but instead look at their role as mediators, diplomats, and as a last resort warriors. They can get more independent from the Chantry, provide a valuable service to Thedas, and they can also learn to better protect themselves through learning, meditation, and so on.

Templars could be reduced to strictly rogue mage hunting and Harrowings for mages who want to live out of the Circles.

Dear god, please no... No more Jedi. 

We already have Force Mage. Add to that some martial training and we can make an order of force mage monks. They will work just fine with some tranquil war monks.

Mana swords will be next.

The templars already do this. Evangeline sends lyrium energy in her sword when she fights that mage that attacks The Divine in the beginnig of the book ( I think ). Her sword starts to emanate tiny blue lyrium sparks.

Indeed. Lambert does the same. But I meant swords made of pure mana. Vivienne is seen calling up a sphere of mana. Could not mages shape that into a sword?

Raw lyriums is pretty bad for mages.As for magic created weapons : I don't know if they could shape magic energy into a weapon like form. It would be cool do be able to make a bow or a sword on the get go

They could also have some simple swords or dual daggers that they enchant with elemental damage. Either that or use the Telekinetic Weapons spell from DA:O ( with the rest of the Telekinesis tree )

EDIT

Br3ad wrote...

When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

Some people see what they want to see.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:39 .

[MisterJB]

Well, the "victims" of this supposed state of fear are now imposing their own state of fear upon a much large percentage of the population who are terrified of people who are capable of setting them on fire with a thought and who have no restrictions beyond moral ones.
If you oppose the Circle system on the basis it scares the mages, I expect you to oppose the mage revolution.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

When the law is sound but not enforced, then it isn't the law that should be changed but the enforcement of it.

And that is the crux of the problem. If we do not fix the law, what can we do to change its enforcement in such a way as to have both sides be happy with the outcome?

When you are changing a good law for the expediency of the enforcement of it, then you aren't doing a very good job as a lawgiver. The enforcers of the law are simply gonna have to step up their game, and actually do their job. If the problem is corruption within the enforcing power, then weed it out. If the problem is manpower, then hire more. Only once the law isn't actually feasible to enforce, or the law is ineffective, should it be changed.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:41 .

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

Ok, admittedly, that was not my brightest moment. I had just finished a long a** exam and was tired out of mind. So yes, I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. But that doesn't make it a "problem" as you seem to dub it.

Lol. I wasn't even talking about you. Didn't even know you were there. 

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

why is it wrong to imprison mages? their dangerous to themselves & others around them, 1 child was able to almost wipe out a village thanks to not getting sent to the circle.

It's not wrong to take steps to ensure the safety of society at large.  But the Circles have been horribly abused.  Where does one draw the line?

Keeping the circles is better imo, when the tevinter mages were allowed to police themselves, the magisters re took control

True and not true but circles aren't very effective just see how often we see abomnation running around.But when we will ask what is better mage will tell that he would like tevinter more non-mage that he prefer circles for mages everyone cares for himself so what is better depends where you stand.

Im not sure all mages would prefer tevinter

[TheKomandorShepard]

Threat300 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

why is it wrong to imprison mages? their dangerous to themselves & others around them, 1 child was able to almost wipe out a village thanks to not getting sent to the circle.

It's not wrong to take steps to ensure the safety of society at large.  But the Circles have been horribly abused.  Where does one draw the line?

Keeping the circles is better imo, when the tevinter mages were allowed to police themselves, the magisters re took control

True and not true but circles aren't very effective just see how often we see abomnation running around.But when we will ask what is better mage will tell that he would like tevinter more non-mage that he prefer circles for mages everyone cares for himself so what is better depends where you stand.

Im not sure all mages would prefer tevinter

Many yes what you would prefer live as king in tevinter or fear every day that you can become templar victim and you won't be able nothing to do about it?

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

Ok, admittedly, that was not my brightest moment. I had just finished a long a** exam and was tired out of mind. So yes, I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. But that doesn't make it a "problem" as you seem to dub it.

Lol. I wasn't even talking about you. Didn't even know you were there. 

Oh, I was there. I remember it because I felt like such an idiot for falling for it. I don't think I have ever banged my head against my desk so hard before. It was also the first time I encountered our dear friend, Darth.

Modifié par eluvianix, 03 décembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

@TheKomandorShepard, being a weak mage wouldn't end well in tevinter, ain't they treated just as badly as slaves?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Most mages are confined to Circles aswell in Tevinter. However the general attitude towards magic in Tevinter is different from the rest of Thedas.

[wright1978]

Threat300 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

why is it wrong to imprison mages? their dangerous to themselves & others around them, 1 child was able to almost wipe out a village thanks to not getting sent to the circle.

It's not wrong to take steps to ensure the safety of society at large.  But the Circles have been horribly abused.  Where does one draw the line?

Keeping the circles is better imo, when the tevinter mages were allowed to police themselves, the magisters re took control

The key word there is retook surely. In Tevinter there is a historical legacy of Magisters being in rulership. The magisters being forced from power was the alien position. Trying to extrapolate wider mage behaviour based on Tevinter seems unsafe to me. Personally to me the circles have proven themselves untenable in their current form based on the mages(their subjects) successful revolution. It's time for a new structure.

Modifié par wright1978, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:06 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Threat300 wrote...

@TheKomandorShepard, being a weak mage wouldn't end well in tevinter, ain't they treated just as badly as slaves?

Yes being weak mage but most would like it here mages are in charge not that they care about each other but you have chances there outisde tevinter if you are mage you don't have good future.

wright1978 wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Threat300 wrote...

why
is it wrong to imprison mages? their dangerous to themselves &
others around them, 1 child was able to almost wipe out a village thanks
to not getting sent to the circle.

It's not wrong to
take steps to ensure the safety of society at large.  But the Circles
have been horribly abused.  Where does one draw the line?

Keeping the circles is better imo, when the tevinter mages were allowed to police themselves, the magisters re took control

The
key word there is retook surely. In Tevinter there is a historical
legacy of Magisters being in rulership. The magisters being forced from
power was the alien position. Trying to extrapolate wider mage behaviour
based on Tevinter seems unsafe to me. Personally to me the circles have
proven themselves untenable in their current form based on the
mages(their subjects) successful revolution. It's time for a new
structure.

It ends in two way mages are abused by non-mages or non-mages are abused by mages only solution is annihilate one side. if mages will win mages will create something like tevinter or smiliar if templars will won it will be that what was before revolution. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Problems? If you're not kept under vigilance you'll likely turn into malefactor blood mages.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

When I say no more Jedi, I mean no more Jedi in DA.

We've already got enough muhahaha Sith and LolDak Side in addition to the things above. Remember when Darth posted a picture of a Sith capital from TOR, people were actually willing to believe that it was Tevinter. That's a problem. 

If only Bioware make a RPG in (Heroes of) Might and Magic world, it will be really interesting... to see who will be holier than thou?! Druids, Priests or Dwarves. There are dark factions as well.

Modifié par Kaiser Arian, 03 décembre 2013 - 05:23 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

This fanbase needs a great purge imo. Too many people bringing their IRL baggage into the game, then demanding it follow their world view and exclude everyone elses.

In the words of the great short lived King Joffery Baratheon, Kill them all.

[leaguer of one]

Jaison1986 wrote...

ignoreality wrote...

As someone who has lived in a communist country, I want to say, the OP is spot on.

The Circle, the Chantry, the Qun, I hate them all with equal passion. I don't think there's one organization in Thedas that doesn't feel deeply wrong to me.

Come to think of it, perhaps this analogy is why it was always quite cathartic, killing Templars in DA.

That's why I think Thedas needs a completely new world order. Wipe out all these biased and opressive leaderships. The Chantry, the Qun, the magisters. All of them do terrible things to the people. No more slavery from Tevinter, no more brainwashing from the Qunari and no more segregation from the Chantry. All of that needs to change.

Havester hordes... Harvester hordes on every one.

[leaguer of one]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

This fanbase needs a great purge imo. Too many people bringing their IRL baggage into the game, then demanding it follow their world view and exclude everyone elses.

In the words of the great short lived King Joffery Baratheon, Kill them all.

Havester hordes... Harvester hordes on every one.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

This fanbase needs a great purge imo. Too many people bringing their IRL baggage into the game, then demanding it follow their world view and exclude everyone elses.

In the words of the great short lived King Joffery Baratheon, Kill them all.

Or maybe you need to step back and let people speak and bring their "baggage" into the forums. Let them express here what they might not be able to IRL. They have just as much a right to speak as anyone else.

Modifié par eluvianix, 03 décembre 2013 - 07:45 .

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Or maybe you need to step back and let people speak and bring their "baggage" into the forums. Let them express here what they might not be able to IRL.

Expressing is fine but please, keep it out of debates when it's not a proper equivalent. For instance, it would be nice if users could take a step back and realize that mages can't serve as analogies for real world issues because there are no social groups in the real world that can spit fire or become Eldritch Abominations at any given moment.
It gets especially aggravating when arguments consist solely of that: "Mages are X so, if you support the Templars you are against X which makes you a (insert derogatory term here) and (derogatory term) are bad."

[thats1evildude]

I don't think most pro-templar supporters would deny the Circle isn't totalitarian. The real question is whether it is necessary, and the answer to that question is "absolutely."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 03 décembre 2013 - 07:51 .

[leaguer of one]

thats1evildude wrote...

I don't think most pro-templar supporters would deny the Circle isn't totalitarian. The real question is whether it is necessary, and the answer to that question is "absolutely."

Not to the fullest extent. Order is needed but there is more then one way to apply order. Do it really need to be  totalitatian?

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Or maybe you need to step back and let people speak and bring their "baggage" into the forums. Let them express here what they might not be able to IRL.

Expressing is fine but please, keep it out of debates when it's not a proper equivalent. For instance, it would be nice if users could take a step back and realize that mages can't serve as analogies for real world issues because there are no social groups in the real world that can spit fire or become Eldritch Abominations at any given moment.
It gets especially aggravating when arguments consist solely of that: "Mages are X so, if you support the Templars you are against X which makes you a (insert derogatory term here) and (derogatory term) are bad."

Bolded #1: While we cannot draw full analogies, I would argue that we have to analyze them somehow. Physically, yes, there is no analogy for them AT ALL. But socially, I would say that there most certainly are analogies. Again though, that is my own take on the subject. However, that argument is a whole other ball game and thread on its own, and I am really not interested in rehashing that argument again.

I cannot speak for others, but I rarely do the bolded #2.
1: It is rude.
2: I think it is exceedingly ridiculous to label some people that way. Just because some templars do nasty things doesn't mean that a Templar supporter supports those acts. Mages have been raped by some Templars, but that hardly means that a person who supports the Templar Order supports and condones rape.
Further, just because I support Mages does not mean I condone blood mages controlling people, or abominations annihilating all the Templars.

Modifié par eluvianix, 03 décembre 2013 - 08:03 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Every debate I've hsd on the bsn has devloved into bolded point 2.

Look at one of the first posts in this thread. Someone brough up their experience as a person from a communist state as a prerequisite for supporting the OP. this is a pretty good tell for what you can expect in the discussion, which isnless to do with circles and more to do with irl communists regimes.

Also posters like plantiff and raijin and the ine who tried to argue killing and brutally suppressing religion in thedas would make everyone happy.