1858 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Teleportation does not make TES mages more powerful. Teleportation is IMPOSSIBLE in the DA setting, which means that you can't compare the two. If you were to move a TES mage into Thedas, who wouldn't be able teleport, since it would break the laws of magic and physics in Thedas.
And generally speaking TES amges are about on par with DA mages. THough there are a lot more TES mages, and they don't have to suffer the drawback of demons haunting them.

Yep teleporation makes you more powerful because it is another power (quite powerful) you can use it is meaningless that mages can't teleport in thedas we are talking about power that mages have not what will happened if mage from tes will end in da universe.Magic in da is weaker because it doesn't offers such possibilities as tes magic in tes mage have possibility to become walking desctruction if powerful even physical god in rare cases but sill in thedas that just mean you can throw fireball (and we only saw more powerful mages capable do that.

Only an extremely few amount of the amges in TES ever accomplishes such a thing. So disappearingly few, that as you try to paint them as the norm, that they should be seen as anomalies in TES. The common mage in TES, are about on par in capabilities as a DA mage, that is the long and short of it. You can argue that magicka in TES has more potential than magic in DA, and I'd be inclined to agree. But the general mage in both settings are about on about the same place on the scale.
And also remember that even the most powerful mages in both settings are still fully capable of getting the snot beaten out of them by a common man.

Yeah as i said that physical god status is rare for mage but person of mass destruction for powerful mage isn't very hard to get.Magic in thedas is very restricted when such things as teleportation and
resurrection don't exist tes mage are capable doing that for example one mage was able create hundreds monsters and corrupt hero (not our:whistle:) by using magic mage there can make big mess without becoming insane monster still dragonborn rocks .

In thedas well mages were destroyet almost everytime the fight with someone so not best proof.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Magic in thedas is very restricted when such things as teleportation and
resurrection don't exist tes mage are capable doing that

No, those exist in Thedas. They're just really rare, for the sake of not making the plot mage-dictated.

 by using magic mage there can make big mess without becoming insane monster

That strikes me as open to debate. Or did you mean that they don't get possessed? If so, I feel like noting Caladrius and Quentin weren't possesed either.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Lambert tries so hard to look like a badass


But his helmet reflects more of a pig with ears.

At least his helmet is semi-practical. Though I am not exactly sure why there are breathing holes for his forehead, when there are no visor of any kin on this open front helmet 

Have you met the man? The holes are the only way his pent-up steam can even hope to escape!

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Magic in thedas is very restricted when such things as teleportation and
resurrection don't exist tes mage are capable doing that

No, those exist in Thedas. They're just really rare, for the sake of not making the plot mage-dictated.

 by using magic mage there can make big mess without becoming insane monster

That strikes me as open to debate. Or did you mean that they don't get possessed? If so, I feel like noting Caladrius and Quentin weren't possesed either.

Well mage can't resurrect in thedas well spirit can (or something else like maybe in leliana case) and still it comes whether it is that same person or just spirits with dead person memories.

Well we both your examples were blood mages first only created zombie second was just slaver.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


Well mage can't resurrect in thedas well spirit can (or something else like maybe in leliana case) and still it comes whether it is that same person or just spirits with dead person memories.

How common is resurrection in TES, for that matter? The Aedra do it at the end of Knights of the Nine, but on the whole I thought it was about as common as DA's resurrections and for largely the same reason; they don't want to lessen the impact.

Well we both your examples were blood mages first only created zombie second was just slaver.  

Only created a zombie? Quentin was a serial killer; sewing his victims together was far from the worst he did, besides which he successfully got away with it for years. He even killed a Templar, which isn't supposed to happen. And Caladrius still managed to create a mess, and provide a reasonably challenging boss battle.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 06 décembre 2013 - 03:04 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...


Well mage can't resurrect in thedas well spirit can (or something else like maybe in leliana case) and still it comes whether it is that same person or just spirits with dead person memories.

How common is resurrection in TES, for that matter? The Aedra do it at the end of Knights of the Nine, but on the whole I thought it was about as common as DA's resurrections and for largely the same reason; they don't want to lessen the impact.

Well we both your examples were blood mages first only created zombie second was just slaver.  

Only created a zombie? Quentin was a serial killer; sewing his victims together was far from the worst he did, besides which he successfully got away with it for years. He even killed a Templar, which isn't supposed to happen. And Caladrius still managed to create a mess, and provide a reasonably challenging boss battle.

Well pretty much most tes game have mages resurrecting someone or playing a god or just causing cataclysms pretty much this is how mage guild works.

Well only unusual thing that he menaged to do is creating zombie rest is just things that normal serial killer could achieve and that templars and KG are incompetent idiots only helps.In second example well i wouldn't call that mess he was just slaver anyone thinking would achive what he did that was opportunity to get slaves in country in war and well racist society (as any other andriastian society) what don't care about elves pure business.About his boss battle well cauthrien is stronger than archdemon in her boss battle so well i don't think that is good way looking on that.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

Common mages canot resurrect anyone in TES. There are necromancers though, who makes a mockery of life, by raising the dead. The only ones who are capable of a full resurrection of the dead in TES are the Aedra and the Daedric Princes.

[Hellion Rex]

Wynne was resurrected by Faith. Although I am unsure if she was truly dead, or if she was still in that grey area between life and absolute death.

Modifié par eluvianix, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:19 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If it was the grey area, she'd be able to heal herself of the injury so that the spirit could leave her. No, she was dead.

[Hellion Rex]

So Spirits and probably upper tier demons have the capacity to return true life to the dead.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not really. Wynne still needed the spirit to live. But yes, she was almost certainly actually dead before it intervened.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

That is a fair point. It shared its life force with her, tethering them together.

[Lord Raijin]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Except the Redguards of Hammerfell who a distinctly NOT mages, beat the snot out of the Aldmerri Dominion on their own...

I'm a bit rusty on the lore, but didn't Hammerfell signed a treaty to end the war between the Aldmeri Dominion? You know almost the same thing with the great war between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Do you even know what you are talking about? Psykers in Warhammer 40k are potentially powerful on a galactic scale. A mage in Thedas is barely even on a provincial scale in power, and even then only when possessed by a demon.
If mages were ever to get as powerful as Warhammer 40k psykers, there wouldn't even be a discussion, they would all have to be culled, or Thedas would be destroyed.

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't know what a Psykers is nor have I ever played Warhammer 40k before.

Oh and according to wika


Isn't a Psykers an equivalent to a mage? The glowly eyes and lightning all around - very mage like.

very much like the mages in Dragon Age

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 06 décembre 2013 - 01:02 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

If it was the grey area, she'd be able to heal herself of the injury so that the spirit could leave her. No, she was dead.

No.
The "grey area" inclued things like "UNCONCIOUS and bleeding out" and "all body functions ceased, but the soul is still in the body". In neither can a mage heal himself.

[Lotion Soronarr]

@Lord Raijin - a single Alpha-class psyker can destroy a PLANET.
Even weaker psykers - if possesed - can destroy a planet. Demons in 40K are NOT to be mesed with.

http://warhammer40k....com/wiki/Daemon

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...
I find it hard to believe that the most powerful mage ever seen in DA was defeated by someone who was shooting a bunch of arrows (Don't you ever run out? Seems like in DA you have unlimited source of arrows).. or with daggers and a person with a giant size sword.

What we saw was gameplay, nothing more.

What we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example; Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands; Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 décembre 2013 - 02:46 .

[Vulpe]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

@Lord Raijin - a single Alpha-class psyker can destroy a PLANET.
Even weaker psykers - if possesed - can destroy a planet. Demons in 40K are NOT to be mesed with.

http://warhammer40k....com/wiki/Daemon

If they aren't exploding.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Common mages canot resurrect anyone in TES. There are necromancers though, who makes a mockery of life, by raising the dead. The only ones who are capable of a full resurrection of the dead in TES are the Aedra and the Daedric Princes.

Well normal mage can be necromancer it is just another school of magic and well potema.

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
I find it
hard to believe that the most powerful mage ever seen in DA was
defeated by someone who was shooting a bunch of arrows (Don't you ever
run out? Seems like in DA you have unlimited source of arrows).. or with
daggers and a person with a giant size sword.

What we saw was gameplay, nothing more.

What
we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly
skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful
mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example;
Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands;
Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be
less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

Well now rather we have qunari myth about mages toppled;)

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 06 décembre 2013 - 03:28 .

[Lord Raijin]

MisterJB wrote...
What we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example; Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands; Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

To be fair we truly do not know what the tainted blood does to people.. Larius is not alive but not entirly dead either... hes like a walking intelligent zombie non of the less. Perhabs that gives him an additional set of powers? The Warden commander in trailers have the blue glowy eyes very much like Hawke with red glowy eyes in the destiny trailer.

I'm not saying that swords, daggers and bows are useless... just not as significant as magic. While a skilled archer can shoot their limited arrows mages can boil your blood and summon a blizzard or inferno.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
What we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example; Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands; Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

To be fair we truly do not know what the tainted blood does to people.. Larius is not alive but not entirly dead either... hes like a walking intelligent zombie non of the less. Perhabs that gives him an additional set of powers? The Warden commander in trailers have the blue glowy eyes very much like Hawke with red glowy eyes in the destiny trailer.

I'm not saying that swords, daggers and bows are useless... just not as significant as magic. While a skilled archer can shoot their limited arrows mages can boil your blood and summon a blizzard or inferno.

The blue glowy eyes I had thought were for mostly cosmetic effect. But for the blood magic Hawke having red eyes, we see something similar in Asunder. Evangeline mentions that the blood mage she fought had his eyes begin to glow red when he attacked her with blood magic.

[dragonflight288]

Wow, I really need to catch up on the pages, ah well, I'll just go from here.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]dragonflight288 wrote...

@ Etheral

I normally agree with you, but I feel like we don't have enough information on Leliana's specifics of what she did to outright state she wasn't thorough.

She did manage to draw resolutionists out, who wanted to assassinate her. But if a gamer doesn't have the DLC Exiled Prince then they would never know there was a group of mages called the Resolutionists. Their very existence and attempted assassination shows Leliana has more information than Hawke, and thereby us, do.

Also, Leliana was quite vague in what information she gave Hawke. Here's the video.
[/quote]

The video skipped over the Resolutionists investigate option.[/quote]

True, but in may latest playthrough, she still was quite vague when I asked about it.

[quote]
[quote]She never says she was investigating Kirkwall, but investigating the possibility of rebellion, and all the information she gives Hawke is specific only to what Elthina asked him to do, and not a scrap of information more than that. She really only talks about the Resolutionists because they tried to kill Hawke, thinking he was her. [/quote]

Fair enough, rebellion. But I'd argue that it changes very little about how I believe she needs to conduct a thorough investigation and not ascribe the entire political climate to being due to the Resolutionists, because rebellions seldom occur without reasons for them.

Sure, a rebellion in Kirkwall could be tied to the basic "Mages want freedom" (which it is, in part). But that's not going to be the entire thing. Take for instance the Fereldan Rebellion. It'd be easy to just go "LOL Mages be Mages" but it'd be foolish of anyone trying to understand how to deal with the potential fallout to do so because there were other factors at play (Loghain, Ostagar, the Chantry's refusal to send more mages, etc.).

To understand rebellions, you need to look at everything that could possibly have contributed to the climate that made it possible. Some are easier then others, but Kirkwall isn't an easy one to just go "Ah, Resolutionists."[/quote]

I agree, but we don't know if Leliana just wrote it off as Resolutionists, or if she merely gave Hawke what Hawke and Sebastian expected. She's not very forthcoming with her information, but I can't discount what you said either. I do know the devs said there was far more going on than Leliana told us, so I'm content waiting for more information.

[quote]
[quote]Although how they could mistake the Champion for a Chantry agent, I don't know, but that scene alone brings up a new fraternity that you would never know existed if you never played it. [/quote]

I think DAO made some offhand remarks about Libertarian offshoots. [/quote]

Hmm....I can't recall in references. Talking to Senior Enchanter Torin about the fraternities in the mage origin certainly never revealed anything of the sort. Eavesdropping on him and Nial lets us know the Aequitarians are beginning to agree with the Libertarians and sympathize with tem more and more. I don't recall any references to off-shoots of the Libertarians....or any other fraternity.

[quote]
[quote]I believe we don't have enough information on what Leliana was actually doing, because she obviously is working with information we lack.[/quote]

It's easy to say that, but it still doesn't account for say... why she and the Chantry didn't fully investigate until two years later, why if she had more to go off of Cassandra is operating on barebones details that were common knowledge (expedition, estate, Qunari attack, Champion, Elthina go boom-boom, Mages vs. Templars, Meredith being petrified by her lyrium idol).

I just find it hard to really convince myself that Leliana did her job right there or that she knows more then we think.

[/quote][/quote]

I suppose you and I are having opposing reactions since I looked at the whole scene differently from the beginning....and I beat DA2 once before I downloaded the Exiled Prince so that coloured my perspective a little in that I had no idea that a fraternity called Resolutionists existed until that one scene, so I felt she had far more information than I did, and only gave me enough to do what Elthina asked me to do.

[MisterJB]

Lord Raijin wrote...
To be fair we truly do not know what the tainted blood does to people.. Larius is not alive but not entirly dead either... hes like a walking intelligent zombie non of the less. Perhabs that gives him an additional set of powers? The Warden commander in trailers have the blue glowy eyes very much like Hawke with red glowy eyes in the destiny trailer.

I'm not saying that swords, daggers and bows are useless... just not as significant as magic. While a skilled archer can shoot their limited arrows mages can boil your blood and summon a blizzard or inferno.

Larius did not exhibit any special abilities; he just threw her to the ground and smashed her skull in. He did absolutely nothing ay other person of similar physical built couldn't have done.
Having a pointy piece of metal through your brain will kill you just as quickly as a fireball to the face. Mages have advantages but they are not omnipotent and sufficiently skilled non-mages can kill even the most powerful of mages in combat. And vice-versa.

[TEWR]

Things to note from my recent playthrough of DAII:

1) If Grace was sent to the Circle and talked to in Act 2, she will state that the Templars have been taking away the Mages' texts and staffs, making it harder for them to resist possession. How can you be expected to resist it if the very tools needed to understand magic aren't being given to you?

2) We find out that some people have heard Meredith talking to herself in Act 2 from Alain, which knowing that she bought the busted lyrium idol from Bartrand then (which was more potent) tells us she is indeed losing her mind. Add in Cullen's remarks about her increased reclusiveness...

3) A Templar (not Alrik, just a no-name one) in the Gallows says the RoT should be used more widely.

4) If Feynriel was sent to the Circle, Orsino's been working hard to try and bring him out of his Somniari-induced coma -- with no success, of course.

Larius did not exhibit any special abilities; he just threw her to the ground and smashed her skull in. He did absolutely nothing ay other person of similar physical built couldn't have done.

Well, Morrigan posits that the Taint has a positive effect on Grey Wardens' physical states, so we can't rule out that the Taint has no effects on a person's body.

In fact, I'm pretty sure somewhere -- in game or out -- it was said that the Taint does make people stronger. It's certainly true of the Darkspawn, who grow stronger with age and a single berserking Hurlock is a match for numerous opponents at one time.

That said, Larius' killing of Janeka is indeed something that wouldn't have required the Taint. A big metal fist colliding with your face is going to kill you, if it's hard enough.

Especially if it's Kratos style.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:27 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
To be fair we truly do not know what the tainted blood does to people.. Larius is not alive but not entirly dead either... hes like a walking intelligent zombie non of the less. Perhabs that gives him an additional set of powers? The Warden commander in trailers have the blue glowy eyes very much like Hawke with red glowy eyes in the destiny trailer.

I'm not saying that swords, daggers and bows are useless... just not as significant as magic. While a skilled archer can shoot their limited arrows mages can boil your blood and summon a blizzard or inferno.

Larius did not exhibit any special abilities; he just threw her to the ground and smashed her skull in. He did absolutely nothing ay other person of similar physical built couldn't have done.
Having a pointy piece of metal through your brain will kill you just as quickly as a fireball to the face. Mages have advantages but they are not omnipotent and sufficiently skilled non-mages can kill even the most powerful of mages in combat. And vice-versa.

Well that may be not true (well i note may) it seems that darkspawn become stronger with age so perhaps it same concerns grey warden after many years so at this point he could have speed , strenght and endurance bigger than humans have on the other hand he might just be wreck that can barely walk so even more points how weak mages are.I think that welltrained mage don't have much chances with well trained warrior or rogue unless on long-range in other cases before mage cast spell he is ten times dead.      

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Except the Redguards of Hammerfell who a distinctly NOT mages, beat the snot out of the Aldmerri Dominion on their own...

I'm a bit rusty on the lore, but didn't Hammerfell signed a treaty to end the war between the Aldmeri Dominion? You know almost the same thing with the great war between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Do you even know what you are talking about? Psykers in Warhammer 40k are potentially powerful on a galactic scale. A mage in Thedas is barely even on a provincial scale in power, and even then only when possessed by a demon.
If mages were ever to get as powerful as Warhammer 40k psykers, there wouldn't even be a discussion, they would all have to be culled, or Thedas would be destroyed.

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't know what a Psykers is nor have I ever played Warhammer 40k before.

Oh and according to wika
[pic]

Isn't a Psykers an equivalent to a mage? The glowly eyes and lightning all around - very mage like.

very much like the mages in Dragon Age
[pic]

They certainly share a lot of similarities, but the psykers are based more upon psychokinetic and telepathic abilities, and actual sorcery in the Imperium of Man is outlawed, since it is even more dangerous to use than psychic powers.
And the mages of Thedas can't even hold a cnadle to even the average battle psyker of the Imperium. Though the mages of Thedas can rejoice that at least the demon threat they face, is not even close to the threat of daemons that the psykers face.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Common mages canot resurrect anyone in TES. There are necromancers though, who makes a mockery of life, by raising the dead. The only ones who are capable of a full resurrection of the dead in TES are the Aedra and the Daedric Princes.

Well normal mage can be necromancer it is just another school of magic and well potema.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Necromancy is not resurrection.