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[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Common mages canot resurrect anyone in TES. There are necromancers though, who makes a mockery of life, by raising the dead. The only ones who are capable of a full resurrection of the dead in TES are the Aedra and the Daedric Princes.

Well normal mage can be necromancer it is just another school of magic and well potema.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Necromancy is not resurrection.

Well it is possible for necromancer resurrect someone in tes and no i don't talk about zombie or skeleton but of course they can do that as well. 

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Except the Redguards of Hammerfell who a distinctly NOT mages, beat the snot out of the Aldmerri Dominion on their own...

I'm a bit rusty on the lore, but didn't Hammerfell signed a treaty to end the war between the Aldmeri Dominion? You know almost the same thing with the great war between the Empire and the Aldmeri Dominion?

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Do you even know what you are talking about? Psykers in Warhammer 40k are potentially powerful on a galactic scale. A mage in Thedas is barely even on a provincial scale in power, and even then only when possessed by a demon.
If mages were ever to get as powerful as Warhammer 40k psykers, there wouldn't even be a discussion, they would all have to be culled, or Thedas would be destroyed.

I guess I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't know what a Psykers is nor have I ever played Warhammer 40k before.

Oh and according to wika
[pic]

Isn't a Psykers an equivalent to a mage? The glowly eyes and lightning all around - very mage like.

very much like the mages in Dragon Age
[pic]

They certainly share a lot of similarities, but the psykers are based more upon psychokinetic and telepathic abilities, and actual sorcery in the Imperium of Man is outlawed, since it is even more dangerous to use than psychic powers.
And the mages of Thedas can't even hold a cnadle to even the average battle psyker of the Imperium. Though the mages of Thedas can rejoice that at least the demon threat they face, is not even close to the threat of daemons that the psykers face.

Let's not forget that many are sacrificed to sustain a mummy.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

If it was the grey area, she'd be able to heal herself of the injury so that the spirit could leave her. No, she was dead.

No.
The "grey area" inclued things like "UNCONCIOUS and bleeding out" and "all body functions ceased, but the soul is still in the body". In neither can a mage heal himself.

While the mage is still in those states, no. But you would think if that's what the spirit saved her from, she'd be able to take over whatever it was doing with her own magic. (If the spirit even needed to stick around after saving her from what isn't technically death in that setting.)

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Common mages canot resurrect anyone in TES. There are necromancers though, who makes a mockery of life, by raising the dead. The only ones who are capable of a full resurrection of the dead in TES are the Aedra and the Daedric Princes.

Well normal mage can be necromancer it is just another school of magic and well potema.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Necromancy is not resurrection.

Well it is possible for necromancer resurrect someone in tes and no i don't talk about zombie or skeleton but of course they can do that as well. 

The only evidence of this I've ever seen is that Restoration skill book where the kid comes back wrong anyway. As for actually seeing any proof that that can happen, I don't recall any.

[EmperorSahlertz]

That is because there isn't any. Only necromancers are able to preserve their "lives" through unnatural means, such as storing their souls in black soul gems, or binding their spirits to certain places. But even they are not able to resurrect others if they have died completely.

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

Let's not forget that many are sacrificed to sustain a mummy.

Well, at least there is a perfectly good reason for these sacrifices, considering that all interstellar travel would be impossible without.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:45 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
I find it
hard to believe that the most powerful mage ever seen in DA was
defeated by someone who was shooting a bunch of arrows (Don't you ever
run out? Seems like in DA you have unlimited source of arrows).. or with
daggers and a person with a giant size sword.

What we saw was gameplay, nothing more.

What
we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly
skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful
mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example;
Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands;
Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be
less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

Well now rather we have qunari myth about mages toppled;)

The only Qunari myth about mages is that hearing them speak gets you possessed. If you meant that this disproves the history where the mages helped beat back the Qunari then you're just being obtuse, given how many times I've pointed out to you that just because mages can die by the same causes doesn't mean they're not a lot more powerful than most mortals. (Is anyone claiming they took the Qunari down without help?)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:54 .

[Vulpe]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

Let's not forget that many are sacrificed to sustain a mummy.

Well, at least there is a perfectly good reason for these sacrifices, considering that all interstellar travel would be impossible without.

I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

As for necromancers : I wonder if we'll be able to be Mortalitasi and if we can, how will people react to us ?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...
I find it
hard to believe that the most powerful mage ever seen in DA was
defeated by someone who was shooting a bunch of arrows (Don't you ever
run out? Seems like in DA you have unlimited source of arrows).. or with
daggers and a person with a giant size sword.

What we saw was gameplay, nothing more.

What
we saw is not reliant upon your belief. A non-mage who was incredibly
skilled with his/her weapon of choice defeated one of the more powerful
mage ever born in Thedas in single combat. It's hardly the only example;
Larius, non-mage, can beat Janeka, mage, to death with his bare hands;
Leliana kills two mages in a second in DA2. Swords and arrows may be
less flashier than spells, but they'll kill you just as dead.

edit: You can watch it here.

Well now rather we have qunari myth about mages toppled;)

The only Qunari myth about mages is that hearing them speak gets you possessed. If you meant that this disproves the history where the mages helped beat back the Qunari then you're just being obtuse, given how many times I've pointed out to you that just because mages can die by the same causes doesn't mean they're not a lot more powerful than most mortals. (Is anyone claiming they took the Qunari down without help?)

Well normal mages aren't much powerful than normal humans well in some sense they are but this powers are mostly useless and their "big" help clashes with everything we saw so in practice mages are more useful than pesant but less than skilled warrior so basically it is advantages versus disadvantages of mages and second beats heavily first. Magic in fight works bad unless mage have warrior skills beyond just standing there and looking stupid waiting for his dead mage is useless.And well we didn't reach even abomnation topic to point why mages suck.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That is because there isn't any.
Only necromancers are able to preserve their "lives" through unnatural
means, such as storing their souls in black soul gems, or binding their
spirits to certain places. But even they are not able to resurrect
others if they have died completely.

See potema.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 06 décembre 2013 - 09:04 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well now rather we have qunari myth about mages toppled;)

The only Qunari myth about mages is that hearing them speak gets you possessed. If you meant that this disproves the history where the mages helped beat back the Qunari then you're just being obtuse, given how many times I've pointed out to you that just because mages can die by the same causes doesn't mean they're not a lot more powerful than most mortals. (Is anyone claiming they took the Qunari down without help?)

Well normal mages aren't much powerful than normal humans well in some sense they are but this powers are mostly useless and their "big" help clashes with everything we saw so in practice mages are more useful than pesant but less than skilled warrior so basically it is advantages versus disadvantages of mages and second beats heavily first. Magic in fight works bad unless mage have warrior skills beyond just standing there and looking stupid waiting for his dead mage is useless.And well we didn't reach even abomnation topic to point why mages suck.

I was going to argue that you're confusing gameplay for what humans are actually capable of surviving in that setting. Then I remembered that we actually watch people having semi-realistic reactions to this (ie dying when they get lit on fire), and you argued that this supports your case. I don't remember how you tried to spin this, I'm pretty sure I remember that it was less an answer to that point and more a deflection.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That is because there isn't any.
Only necromancers are able to preserve their "lives" through unnatural
means, such as storing their souls in black soul gems, or binding their
spirits to certain places. But even they are not able to resurrect
others if they have died completely.

See potema.

While I haven't played that game, from the screenshots I've seen she still looks more dead than alive. For that matter, there's a Necromancer in one of the DLCs who "resurrects" a lord, but he's still just an undead.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 06 décembre 2013 - 09:39 .

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
1) If Grace was sent to the Circle and talked to in Act 2, she will state that the Templars have been taking away the Mages' texts and staffs, making it harder for them to resist possession. How can you be expected to resist it if the very tools needed to understand magic aren't being given to you?

I question the necessity of the staff since, if they do they face demons, they'll do so in the Fade, not the physical world.
Grimoires are another matter.

Well, Morrigan posits that the Taint has a positive effect on Grey Wardens' physical states, so we can't rule out that the Taint has no effects on a person's body.

She was clearly refering to rumours and she was mentioning their stamina in the sack. I don't believe those are respectable sources.
Avernus discovered ways of awakening the potential of the Taint which does include boosting the speed of Warriors but I don't think that is something Grey Wardens automatically gain after the Joining.

In fact, I'm pretty sure somewhere -- in game or out -- it was said that the Taint does make people stronger. It's certainly true of the Darkspawn, who grow stronger with age and a single berserking Hurlock is a match for numerous opponents at one time.

I don't recall it. Darkspawn could get stronger as they age; which is a known trope when refering to ageless beings; but their biology is entirely different from Thedosians.

That said, Larius' killing of Janeka is indeed something that wouldn't have required the Taint. A big metal fist colliding with your face is going to kill you, if it's hard enough.

Yep.

Modifié par MisterJB, 06 décembre 2013 - 09:43 .

[TEWR]

I question the necessity of the staff since, if they do they face demons, they'll do so in the Fade, not the physical world.
Grimoires are another matter.

Well, if Demons happen to bust through the Veil, having your staff locked away in an armory you can't get to is going to be problematic.

But yeah, the grimoires bit is very problematic because it shows Kirkwall's Templars didn't care about preventing those situations or defending the people (most evident when they won't even help Aveline patrol the city), they just wanted to keep control and power over the city.

[TEWR]

Avernus discovered ways of awakening the potential of the Taint which does include boosting the speed of Warriors but I don't think that is something Grey Wardens automatically gain after the Joining.

Well, if we take the attribute/talent point gained after drinking as a sort of gameplay reflecting lore evidence, it does have some sort of effect on a Warden's power.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well now rather we have qunari myth about mages toppled;)

The only Qunari myth about mages is that hearing them speak gets you possessed. If you meant that this disproves the history where the mages helped beat back the Qunari then you're just being obtuse, given how many times I've pointed out to you that just because mages can die by the same causes doesn't mean they're not a lot more powerful than most mortals. (Is anyone claiming they took the Qunari down without help?)

Well normal mages aren't much powerful than normal humans well in some sense they are but this powers are mostly useless and their "big" help clashes with everything we saw so in practice mages are more useful than pesant but less than skilled warrior so basically it is advantages versus disadvantages of mages and second beats heavily first. Magic in fight works bad unless mage have warrior skills beyond just standing there and looking stupid waiting for his dead mage is useless.And well we didn't reach even abomnation topic to point why mages suck.

I was going to argue that you're confusing gameplay for what humans are actually capable of surviving in that setting. Then I remembered that we actually watch people having semi-realistic reactions to this (ie dying when they get lit on fire), and you argued that this supports your case. I don't remember how you tried to spin this, I'm pretty sure I remember that it was less an answer to that point and more a deflection.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

That is because there isn't any.
Only necromancers are able to preserve their "lives" through unnatural
means, such as storing their souls in black soul gems, or binding their
spirits to certain places. But even they are not able to resurrect
others if they have died completely.

See potema.

While I haven't played that game, from the screenshots I've seen she still looks more dead than alive. For that matter, there's a Necromancer in one of the DLCs who "resurrects" a lord, but he's still just an undead.

Well i guess that normal humans in dragon age are like our normal just have other equipment.In most cases i point only story examples and story well in practice says that mages suck.

Well dragonborn interrupted (well killed everyone) ritual before it ended but her spirit menaged escape so she didn't had body thats why. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

Let's not forget that many are sacrificed to sustain a mummy.

Well, at least there is a perfectly good reason for these sacrifices, considering that all interstellar travel would be impossible without.

I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

As for necromancers : I wonder if we'll be able to be Mortalitasi and if we can, how will people react to us ?

The only other way of reliable fast interstellar travel is through the Eldar Webway, and all chances of that happening was destroyed when the Golden Throne got jury rigged into a giant respirator for the Emperor. So as it is now, 10,000 souls every day is needed for the Astronomican to continue to shine. Too bad to be a psyker in the Dark 41st Millenium...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

See potema.

Potema, even if he ritual had succeeded, would not ahve come back to full life either, she would still have been an undead apparition. Unless she was in league with a Daedric Prince, in which case that Prince could have resurrected her. But on thier own, mortals CANNOT resurrect others in TES.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 07 décembre 2013 - 12:02 .

[MisterJB]

JulianWellpit wrote...
I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

How can you say that? The Emperor protects!

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

Let's not forget that many are sacrificed to sustain a mummy.

Well, at least there is a perfectly good reason for these sacrifices, considering that all interstellar travel would be impossible without.

I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

As for necromancers : I wonder if we'll be able to be Mortalitasi and if we can, how will people react to us ?

The only other way of reliable fast interstellar travel is through the Eldar Webway, and all chances of that happening was destred when the Golden Throne got jury rigged into a giant respirator for the Emperor. So as it is now, 10,000 souls every day is needed for the Astronomican to continue to shine. Too bad to be a psyker in the Dark 41st Millenium...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

See potema.

Potema, even if he ritual had succeeded, would not ahve come back to full life either, she would still have been an undead apparition. Unless she was in league with a Daedric Prince, in which case that Prince could have resurrected her. But on thier own, mortals CANNOT resurrect others in TES.

Well they said she would get throne back if dragonborn wasn't there and they resurrected her it wasn't zombie resurrection 

[EmperorSahlertz]

All undead are not brainless zombies. Some of the most powerful adversaries are undead creatures, who are not bound to some necromancer but are acting on their own. Potema is one such being.

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All undead are not brainless zombies. Some of the most powerful adversaries are undead creatures, who are not bound to some necromancer but are acting on their own. Potema is one such being.

I rather doubt that undead would get throne because she was septim but that just me

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All undead are not brainless zombies. Some of the most powerful adversaries are undead creatures, who are not bound to some necromancer but are acting on their own. Potema is one such being.

I rather doubt that undead would get throne because she was septim but that just me

She might, if she managed to depose the current emperor and slaughter his heirs. Whether or not she'd manage this, and whether or not the people would rebel against her, are different matters. (I'm going to guess they would rise up in droves.)

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

How can you say that? The Emperor protects!

Isn't he kinda barely alive?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

All undead are not brainless zombies. Some of the most powerful adversaries are undead creatures, who are not bound to some necromancer but are acting on their own. Potema is one such being.

I rather doubt that undead would get throne because she was septim but that just me

She might, if she managed to depose the current emperor and slaughter his heirs. Whether or not she'd manage this, and whether or not the people would rebel against her, are different matters. (I'm going to guess they would rise up in droves.)

by force yes but they said that she would do that legally by fact that she was septim. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I rather doubt that undead would get throne because she was septim but that just me

She might, if she managed to depose the current emperor and slaughter his heirs. Whether or not she'd manage this, and whether or not the people would rebel against her, are different matters. (I'm going to guess they would rise up in droves.)

by force yes but they said that she would do that legally by fact that she was septim. 

I suppose it's possible they're actually restoring her to life, then. This still isn't enough to prove anything, though. We don't see the end result, (edit: or the intended one, anyway) and it's not like necromancers being slightly unhinged would come as a surprise to anyone.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 07 décembre 2013 - 12:24 .

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...
The blue glowy eyes I had thought were for mostly cosmetic effect. But for the blood magic Hawke having red eyes, we see something similar in Asunder. Evangeline mentions that the blood mage she fought had his eyes begin to glow red when he attacked her with blood magic.

I can only speculate but I think theirs a rational explaination behind the Wardens blue glowly eyes. I can't possibly believe that Bioware would ignore this important aspect of the Grey.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
The blue glowy eyes I had thought were for mostly cosmetic effect. But for the blood magic Hawke having red eyes, we see something similar in Asunder. Evangeline mentions that the blood mage she fought had his eyes begin to glow red when he attacked her with blood magic.

I can only speculate but I think theirs a rational explaination behind the Wardens blue glowly eyes. I can't possibly believe that Bioware would ignore this important aspect of the Grey.

Maybe it happens when they sense darkspawn?