1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkclown1000]

Maybe he's a reaver....or spirit warrior....idk
Definitely a male barbarian warrior...

[Lord Raijin]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Things to note from my recent playthrough of DAII:

3) A Templar (not Alrik, just a no-name one) in the Gallows says the RoT should be used more widely.

Are you sure that it wasn't Knight-Captain Cullen that suggested that RoT should be used more widely?

Or perhabs it was the old woman tranquil that hinted the idea?

[TEWR]

I'm sure. It was just a no-name Templar in offhand ambient dialogue that triggered when you approached him. He's decked out in full Templar apparel, with the more ornate helmet and armor then the other mook ones (the helmet kinda looks like Duty from DAO).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 décembre 2013 - 03:09 .

[Vulpe]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

How can you say that? The Emperor protects!

Isn't he kinda barely alive?

@eluvianix

Yes, he's barely alive. Actually, he looks like an egyptian mummy. Still, he has the powers of a demi-god and a huge part of human science is somehow dependant on his powers for interstelar navigation, comunication and travel. Actually, the best of the human forces are geneticaly altered humans that get some of his DNA inside of them and become superhumans that are able to live thousands of years, are immune to disease and can take wonds that for normal people would be fatal and live. I ask for the more learned members of the forums to explain how this works. I always forget the name of that thing that it's extracted from them when they die and it's passed to other space marines.

@MisterJB

He protects only the ones that follow him blindly. Tell me that destroying planets on which his followers negate him, but don't go helping the forces of chaos or other things like that is a good thing.<_< 

If I think more of it, I wonder how much a mage from Thedas would resist in such a world...

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 07 décembre 2013 - 03:24 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Any Consensus among the mages that The Circle is more like Guantanamo



or a Wehrmacht's camp?

[MisterJB]

JulianWellpit wrote...
@MisterJB

He protects only the ones that follow him blindly. Tell me that destroying planets on which his followers negate him, but don't go helping the forces of chaos or other things like that is a good thing.<_< 

If I think more of it, I wonder how much a mage from Thedas would resist in such a world...

He is The Emperor. Anything that He decides is, by definition, right. To even suggest anything else is heresy.
Wiser minds would place the blame on the shoulders of those that forced His actions.

[Vulpe]

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
@MisterJB

He protects only the ones that follow him blindly. Tell me that destroying planets on which his followers negate him, but don't go helping the forces of chaos or other things like that is a good thing.<_< 

If I think more of it, I wonder how much a mage from Thedas would resist in such a world...

He is The Emperor. Anything that He decides is, by definition, right. To even suggest anything else is heresy.
Wiser minds would place the blame on the shoulders of those that forced His actions.

I prefer the Tau pheromons. I don't think there's a thing that says they affect humans.

+ he's a waiting to die relic of the past.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 07 décembre 2013 - 03:30 .

[MisterJB]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
But yeah, the grimoires bit is very problematic because it shows Kirkwall's Templars didn't care about preventing those situations or defending the people (most evident when they won't even help Aveline patrol the city), they just wanted to keep control and power over the city.

I will contest that. One of the chief characteristics of Meredith is that, despite everything she may have done, they were all done with the intention of protecting Kirkwall.
Denying a mage's grimoires can be justified. Certainly, it might make them more vunerable to demons but it would also make them less dangerous to the citizens of Kirkwall. It can be called an instance of paranoia getting the better of your and interfering with what you were attempting to accomplish but it is not evidence of the Templars not caring about their duty.

As for Aveline; they're being haugthy but, again, it's not like the Templars exist to protect people from each other, only from magic. Could the two things be accomplished without interfering with each other? Probrably but, again, it's not a case of the Templars not caring about the people, only of them losing sight of practicality for some time.

[MisterJB]

JulianWellpit wrote...
+ he's a waiting to die relic of the past.

BURN THE HERETIC! KILL THE MUTANT! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

Seriously tough, it's pretty obvious that, without the Emperor, humanity is toast.

[EmperorSahlertz]

JulianWellpit wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
I think they just stagnated their scientific developement. I'm sure they could find other ways to do things( in time) if they wanted to, but that would mean the death of a living mummy that doesn't want to die, so yeah.Let's develop all of our scientific breakthroughs around an artificialy mentained mummy and its powers through the sacrifice of thousands. <_<

How can you say that? The Emperor protects!

Isn't he kinda barely alive?

@eluvianix

Yes, he's barely alive. Actually, he looks like an egyptian mummy. Still, he has the powers of a demi-god and a huge part of human science is somehow dependant on his powers for interstelar navigation, comunication and travel. Actually, the best of the human forces are geneticaly altered humans that get some of his DNA inside of them and become superhumans that are able to live thousands of years, are immune to disease and can take wonds that for normal people would be fatal and live. I ask for the more learned members of the forums to explain how this works. I always forget the name of that thing that it's extracted from them when they die and it's passed to other space marines.

@MisterJB

He protects only the ones that follow him blindly. Tell me that destroying planets on which his followers negate him, but don't go helping the forces of chaos or other things like that is a good thing.<_< 

If I think more of it, I wonder how much a mage from Thedas would resist in such a world...

The gene-seed implanted in the Space Marines was extracted from each legion's respective Primarch. The Primarch however was genetically enhanced superhumans based on the Emperor himself. So you could say that the Space Marines are third generation "emperors".

That is just an artist interpretation of how the Emperor of Mankind looks upon his throne. But it should give you an idea of the contraption he is now confined to.

And why should the Emperor aid anyone who isn't loyal to him? Why should he offer aid to the Tau, who hold no interrest in him, but are only willing to follow their own ideas of "the graeter good"? There are good reasons, in a universe were treachery and disobedience can literally mean hell on earth, to remain loyal to the one man who can hold back these powers.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
+ he's a waiting to die relic of the past.

BURN THE HERETIC! KILL THE MUTANT! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

Seriously tough, it's pretty obvious that, without the Emperor, humanity is toast.

Yes. If I am reading this stuff right, doesn't pretty much all Interstellar travel for mankind cease immeditately if something happens to that big stream of psychic energy that the Emperor commands?

[Vulpe]

MisterJB wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...
+ he's a waiting to die relic of the past.

BURN THE HERETIC! KILL THE MUTANT! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!

Seriously tough, it's pretty obvious that, without the Emperor, humanity is toast.

I just want humans to try developing alternative methods that don't make them dependant to a mummy and a bunch of fanatical ( but very cool - Grey Knights and Black Templars for the win ! ) mutated humans. 

Am I asking too much ?!?

@EmperorSahlertz

His death would mean one of two things : humans find other ways of surviving and mantaining their civilization or they go extinct.


Wow, Thedas and its problems are like a walk in the park compared to all this.If DA would go Warhammer grey my head would implode.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 07 décembre 2013 - 04:04 .

[MisterJB]

I actually found something in DA2 I hadn't seen before.
I was walking around in the Gallows and this one mage got totally frisky with me because I sided against Orsino in his attempt to stage an insurrection

"Haven't you embarrassed the First-Enchanter enough? What are you doing here?"

No to the first question. As for the second, there is totally wonderful thing called "right of movement" which basically means that citizens of Kirkwall; that is to say, me; can move freely within public space; which is the "here" you referred to; so long as they don't infringe upon other's rights and liberties.
I guess you wouldn't know about it.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...
Yes. If I am reading this stuff right, doesn't pretty much all Interstellar travel for mankind cease immeditately if something happens to that big stream of psychic energy that the Emperor commands?

Pretty much. Which would leave all of humanity's worlds isolated while all of the other fella's would still be able to use theirs.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

I actually found something in DA2 I hadn't seen before.
I was walking around in the Gallows and this one mage got totally frisky with me because I sided against Orsino in his attempt to stage an insurrection

"Haven't you embarrassed the First-Enchanter enough? What are you doing here?"

No to the first question. As for the second, there is totally wonderful thing called "right of movement" which basically means that citizens of Kirkwall; that is to say, me; can move freely within public space; which is the "here" you referred to; so long as they don't infringe upon other's rights and liberties.
I guess you wouldn't know about it.

Oh, pooer thing.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yes. If I am reading this stuff right, doesn't pretty much all Interstellar travel for mankind cease immeditately if something happens to that big stream of psychic energy that the Emperor commands?

Pretty much. Which would leave all of humanity's worlds isolated while all of the other fella's would still be able to use theirs.

And I presume it isn't exactly common knowledge as to the depth of his connection to their space travel?

[Vulpe]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yes. If I am reading this stuff right, doesn't pretty much all Interstellar travel for mankind cease immeditately if something happens to that big stream of psychic energy that the Emperor commands?

Pretty much. Which would leave all of humanity's worlds isolated while all of the other fella's would still be able to use theirs.

And I presume it isn't exactly common knowledge as to the depth of his connection to their space travel?

"The Emperor Protects " it's all the plebs must know.

[Silfren]

Kaiser Arian wrote...

Any Consensus among the mages that The Circle is more like Guantanamo



or a Wehrmacht's camp?

I think that's more what Aeonar prison is, that the Circles themselves.  I stand by the description of the Circles as totalitarian states.

[Lord Raijin]

MisterJB wrote...

I will contest that. One of the chief characteristics of Meredith is that, despite everything she may have done, they were all done with the intention of protecting Kirkwall.
Denying a mage's grimoires can be justified. Certainly, it might make them more vunerable to demons but it would also make them less dangerous to the citizens of Kirkwall. It can be called an instance of paranoia getting the better of your and interfering with what you were attempting to accomplish but it is not evidence of the Templars not caring about their duty.

Perhabs in Meredith insane mind what she was doing was to protect Kirkwall, but in reality she was driving the city into chaos. Varrics narration (I believe in the begining ACT 2) proves this. Taking away a mages grimoires will only intensify things, and not for the good either. It will not make mages less dangerous but more. Perhabs this explains why mages were turning to blood magic... after all a demon can teach them the art, and doesn't require a grimoire. All a mage needs to do is to accept a deal from a demon and poof! They become blood mages.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Raijin wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I will contest that. One of the chief characteristics of Meredith is that, despite everything she may have done, they were all done with the intention of protecting Kirkwall.
Denying a mage's grimoires can be justified. Certainly, it might make them more vunerable to demons but it would also make them less dangerous to the citizens of Kirkwall. It can be called an instance of paranoia getting the better of your and interfering with what you were attempting to accomplish but it is not evidence of the Templars not caring about their duty.

Perhabs in Meredith insane mind what she was doing was to protect Kirkwall, but in reality she was driving the city into chaos. Varrics narration (I believe in the begining ACT 2) proves this. Taking away a mages grimoires will only intensify things, and not for the good either. It will not make mages less dangerous but more. Perhabs this explains why mages were turning to blood magic... after all a demon can teach them the art, and doesn't require a grimoire. All a mage needs to do is to accept a deal from a demon and poof! They become blood mages.

It was actually Act III. Act 2's opening narraton just dealt with the Qunari. "Knight Commander Meredith stepped in to keep order. Things quickly got out of hand. The more she squeezed the mages, the more they resisted. The more the mages resisted, the tighter she squeezed. After 3 years of that, it all came crashing down." ---taken directly from watching the opening Act 3 narration by Varric.

[EmperorSahlertz]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yes. If I am reading this stuff right, doesn't pretty much all Interstellar travel for mankind cease immeditately if something happens to that big stream of psychic energy that the Emperor commands?

Pretty much. Which would leave all of humanity's worlds isolated while all of the other fella's would still be able to use theirs.

And I presume it isn't exactly common knowledge as to the depth of his connection to their space travel?

Oh the common human space traveller is fully aware of the fact that the Emperor IS the Astronomican. However, the Imperium of Man encompasses thousands of not millions of worlds, many of which are feral. There are huamn worlds in the imperium that doesn't even know they are part of the Imperium, because they havn't been in contact with the Imperium since the Dark Age of Technology.
I am not sure about how much the common space traveller knows about the 10,000 human psykers that has to be sacrificed to the Emperor every single day to keep him alive. They proably aren't aware of that at all. Not that they would care much anyway, since most humans hate psykers.

[Medhia Nox]

@JullianWellpit: And no truer words have ever been spoken amongst the faithful!

Humanity empowers the The Emperor - not unlike worship of the Chaos gods feeds them. The Emperor is literally all that holds Chaos at bay. The Eldar know this - the Inquisition knows this, and I imagine the Adeptus Astartes are aware.

And a world that leaves the Imperium not only ceases to add strength (both physical and psychic) to the Imperium of Man - but will also chance predation by the other great powers of the galaxy. Honestly - any planet that leaves the Imperium has only a few options anyway: 1) Succumb to an alien power. 2) Be destroyed by an alien power. 3) Stay hidden as long as possible.

Gork and Mork (the Orkoid gods) are probably the only other Warp beings that could stop the Chaos gods - but then there'd be "nutt'n fer da dakka dakka!"

The Tyranids seek to devour all Warp generating entities (everyone else) - and the Necron seek to seal the Warp off permanently.

And the Tau are useless hippies.

====

@EmperorSahlertz: Be clear though - there are MANY indications that, upon meeting the Emperor - those psykers actually understand and accept what they're doing.

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

I will contest that. One of the chief characteristics of Meredith is that, despite everything she may have done, they were all done with the intention of protecting Kirkwall.

That only makes it understandable, not justifiable.

Denying a mage's grimoires can be justified. Certainly, it might make them more vunerable to demons but it would also make them less dangerous to the citizens of Kirkwall. It can be called an instance of paranoia getting the better of your and interfering with what you were attempting to accomplish but it is not evidence of the Templars not caring about their duty.

I don't see how an increased risk of possession lessens the danger just because a Mage doesn't know the intricacies of magic. By making them more vulnerable, they become more dangerous as a result, either through the increased risk or because they don't understand magic. Magic is only controllable if you have a grasp of its concepts and your willpower. It's why child mages are able to do a lot of damage without meaning to.

Increased ability to be possessed means more Abominations. More abominations means 1) more corpses, 2) more Demons, 3) greater capability for them to create more Abominations, and 4) a repeat of the Fereldan Circle's incident where they almost completely wiped out the Templars.

And then they head out into the city and wreak untold havoc.

So no, it doesn't lessen the danger. The Circle exists to educate mages on magic, in part. Taking away the tools for the education is not justifiable (it's understandable if that's indeed Meredith's rationale for it, which is only speculated upon by in-game people) pretty much nullifies the entire purpose of the Circle and reduces it to being an actual prison.

As for Aveline; they're being haugthy but, again, it's not like the Templars exist to protect people from each other, only from magic.

Which Kirkwall has a history of attempting to endure, and upon Meredith's ascent has had to do so by itself.

Christ, you've got Templars putting up requests for outsiders to do their duty in Act 2.

Could the two things be accomplished without interfering with each other? Probrably but, again, it's not a case of the Templars not caring about the people, only of them losing sight of practicality for some time.

No, it's pretty much that the majority of them don't care about the people. What ones do either die or get out while they can.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 décembre 2013 - 05:34 .

[Vulpe]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@JullianWellpit: And no truer words have ever been spoken amongst the faithful!

Humanity empowers the The Emperor - not unlike worship of the Chaos gods feeds them. The Emperor is literally all that holds Chaos at bay. The Eldar know this - the Inquisition knows this, and I imagine the Adeptus Astartes are aware.

And a world that leaves the Imperium not only ceases to add strength (both physical and psychic) to the Imperium of Man - but will also chance predation by the other great powers of the galaxy. Honestly - any planet that leaves the Imperium has only a few options anyway: 1) Succumb to an alien power. 2) Be destroyed by an alien power. 3) Stay hidden as long as possible.

Gork and Mork (the Orkoid gods) are probably the only other Warp beings that could stop the Chaos gods - but then there'd be "nutt'n fer da dakka dakka!"

The Tyranids seek to devour all Warp generating entities (everyone else) - and the Necron seek to seal the Warp off permanently.

And the Tau are useless hippies.

====

@EmperorSahlertz: Be clear though - there are MANY indications that, upon meeting the Emperor - those psykers actually understand and accept what they're doing.

I just want them to be free of the mummy dependency  . Is it too much ?

Besides, couldn't he reincarnate himself if he dies, just like the shamans that created him did ?

Or the psykers could try recreating the ritual that made The Emperor to make a new one. They are far more psykers now than in 8000 BC and even if some of them might not be so experienced, the numbers might help.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 07 décembre 2013 - 05:47 .

[MisterJB]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Gork and Mork (the Orkoid gods) are probably the only other Warp beings that could stop the Chaos gods - but then there'd be "nutt'n fer da dakka dakka!"

I didn't actually know these two existed so, I just checked the wiki and nearly died laughing.
I love how the height of ork cunning as demonstrated by their god is "giving a low-blow".