1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

I'm talking about the splits, he removed those earlier parts of the conversation and then ignored them.

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

I'm talking about the splits, he removed those earlier parts of the conversation and then ignored them.

Oh, gotcha. Never mind.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

eluvianix wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I think orsino being lax on the mages, with himself being leniant on blood magic, allowed for the situation in kirkwall to deteriorate the way it did. He at least owns 40% of the blame, meredith owning 45%, 5% on the chantry, and 10% on the qunari invasion.

How is Orsino to blame? Meredith was driving Kirkwall into total destruction with her deep hatred for mages and Elthina stood there and watch as her Knight-Commander was turning the city into a battleground.

It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars was better then trying to find a peaceful solution or turning to a higher authority in the chain of command to fix this. He took matters into his own hands, and decided vigilantism was the best course of action.

The mans an ass, and a willing accomplish to serial murdering, and deserves his shared blame for what happened to the circle.

You're joking, right? Please explain to me how in the world he was performing guerrilla warfare? He was an obstruction, yes. But he was certainly not attacking Templars.

No. He just let the apprentices learn blood magic and then
conviently didn't keep track of them as they slipped out and used their
blood magic against the templars. Your telling me that orsino didn't
know what was going on in his own circle?

So pretty much the man
either knew about the rise in blood magic and allowed it to happen to
spite/fight the templars, or he was so blissfully unaware of what his
mages were doing as to be criminally incompetent.

Either way, he was an ass, and an enabler to serial murdering, and he deserves his shared blame for what happend to the circle.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:47 .

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

No. He just let the apprentices learn blood magic and then
conviently didn't keep track of them as they slipped out and used their
blood magic against the templars. Your telling me that orsino didn't
know what was going on in his own circle?

You have absolutely no proof of his teaching apprentices blood magic, at all. This was not a part of some secret plot made by Orsino to bring down the Templars in Kirkwall.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Raijin's the type of guy who doesn't accept what you have to say unless it is 100% in line with his own view. If you even diverge by hinting that mages had a hand in what happened, you're obviously against all mages in all instances and support the templars 100%.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

eluvianix wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

No. He just let the apprentices learn blood magic and then
conviently didn't keep track of them as they slipped out and used their
blood magic against the templars. Your telling me that orsino didn't
know what was going on in his own circle?

You have absolutely no proof of his teaching apprentices blood magic, at all. This was not a part of some secret plot made by Orsino to bring down the Templars in Kirkwall.

Not saying he taught them. All I'm saying is he knew his mages were using blood magic, knew which ones were doing it, and just turned the other way and didn't aknowledge anything of what he saw. Let the situation play out rather then trying to stop it. Like a coach who knows his team is juicing with steroids, but doesn't say aything because why let a good thing like that stop? He knew what was going down, even if he didn't have a direct hand in it, and just walked away.

Either that, or he was a bumbling fool who had absolutely no idea anything wrong was going on right under his nose, and thus a horrible first enchanter.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:52 .

[The Elder King]

I'd say that Orsino was incompetent in managing the Circle, and he had little control (or knowledge) on what his mages were up to. Kind of like Meredith not realizing that part of her templars were blatantly a
abusing their powers. A least this is how I see it.

Modifié par hhh89, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:54 .

[Lord Raijin]

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

[Senya]

Kirkwall's Circle was precisely the type of Circle that had ceased to function as it should. The First Enchanter was either ignorant or looked the other way when his charges practiced blood magic while the Knight-Commander was paranoid, meddled in politics, and squeezed Mages to the breaking point.

Both also refused to work together and undermined each other at every turn without any regard for the law and made no effort at compromise. They failed to present a united front and allowed dangerous people in their charges to roam unchecked.

That, along with an increasingly psychotic abomination blowing up the Chantry and Kirkwall being an Eldritch Location all but guaranteed its doom.

[Vit246]

Isn't the majority of the mages we kill in Kirkwall were not part of the Kirkwall Circle?

[The Flying Grey Warden]

So to recap.

Orsino is either A) A willing enabler to blood magic/guerrilla warfare, or A bumbling fool whose both incompetent and ignorant in his duties.

Meredith is either A) A Machiavellian style villainess who manipulated everything so she could kill all the mages, or A paranoid wench who would have accused a broom of being a apostate and should have been removed from power.

[Hellion Rex]

Vit246 wrote...

Isn't the majority of the mages we kill in Kirkwall were not part of the Kirkwall Circle?

Indeed. Majority were apostates, slavers, or maleficar that had never been a part of the Gallows.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Vit246 wrote...

Isn't the majority of the mages we kill in Kirkwall were not part of the Kirkwall Circle?

They are part of the circle, or "defectors" from the circle. Either way, they are connected to the kirkwall circle in some way, shape, or form.

We don't really run into true apostates outside of merrill, flemeth, or the occasional slaver.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:02 .

[Hellion Rex]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

So to recap.

Orsino is either A) A willing enabler to blood magic/guerrilla warfare, or A bumbling fool whose both incompetent and ignorant in his duties.

Meredith is either A) A Machiavellian style villainess who manipulated everything so she could kill all the mages, or A paranoid wench who would have accused a broom of being a apostate and should have been removed from power.

As for Orsino, I think is neither A nor B.
As for Meredith, it is neither as well. It is hard to distill those two into a simple A or B choices, although reading Meredith's B option made me cackle quite loudly. Both characters are way too complex to reduce them to a single "type".

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

1. Helps blood mages? Check.
2. Supports any type of defience against the KC, no matter who gets caught in the middle? Check.
3. Doesn't tell you he knew your mother's murderer until the very last second? Check.
4. Tries to call out mage Hawke? Check.

Sounds a lot like an ass to me. 

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

1. Helps blood mages? Check.
2. Supports any type of defience against the KC, no matter who gets caught in the middle? Check.
3. Doesn't tell you he knew your mother's murderer until the very last second? Check.
4. Tries to call out mage Hawke? Check.

Sounds a lot like an ass to me. 

Your number 4? I humbly request clarification.
Your number 2. Whose defiance did he really support?

[The Flying Grey Warden]

eluvianix wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

So to recap.

Orsino is either A) A willing enabler to blood magic/guerrilla warfare, or A bumbling fool whose both incompetent and ignorant in his duties.

Meredith is either A) A Machiavellian style villainess who manipulated everything so she could kill all the mages, or A paranoid wench who would have accused a broom of being a apostate and should have been removed from power.

As for Orsino, I think is neither A nor B.
As for Meredith, it is neither as well. It is hard to distill those two into a simple A or B choices, although reading Meredith's B option made me cackle quite loudly. Both characters are way too complex to reduce them to a single "type".

To be honest I think they're both made simple to the point of breaking logic and seeming complex.

[Br3admax]

eluvianix wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

1. Helps blood mages? Check.
2. Supports any type of defience against the KC, no matter who gets caught in the middle? Check.
3. Doesn't tell you he knew your mother's murderer until the very last second? Check.
4. Tries to call out mage Hawke? Check.

Sounds a lot like an ass to me. 

Your number 4? I humbly request clarification.
Your number 2. Whose defiance did he really support?

4. Orsino will have no qualms with asking Meredith why mage Hawke is allowed to be an apostate. 
2. Act III was not the first time Orsino did anything like that. He also call most acts by mages in Kirkwall as acts of despiration, completely ignoring that most of these "acts of despiration,"  do not help mages in the slightest and are against the people of Kirkwall as a whole. 

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...
4. Orsino will have no qualms with asking Meredith why mage Hawke is allowed to be an apostate. 
2. Act III was not the first time Orsino did anything like that. He also call most acts by mages in Kirkwall as acts of despiration, completely ignoring that most of these "acts of despiration,"  do not help mages in the slightest and are against the people of Kirkwall as a whole. 

Number 4 is news to me. I have played as a mage Hawke many times and I have never run into that dialogue.

[Br3admax]

Have you ever sided with Meredith by telling Orsino that he is out of line?

[Hellion Rex]

Br3ad wrote...

Have you ever sided with Meredith by telling Orsino that he is out of line?

You know, I think I might have on my last playthrough, which was nigh on two years ago. However, I was a warrior then, so that dialogue wouldn't have happened.

Modifié par eluvianix, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:22 .

[Senya]

I once decided to side with the Templars with a Mage Hawke at the last minute. Partly out of curiosity/boredom and partly because I was annoyed by something on BSN. I think I might use Dragon Age Keep to switch the choice to the Mage side, but I will have to see.

[Lord Raijin]

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

1. Helps blood mages? Check.
2. Supports any type of defience against the KC, no matter who gets caught in the middle? Check.
3. Doesn't tell you he knew your mother's murderer until the very last second? Check.
4. Tries to call out mage Hawke? Check.

Sounds a lot like an ass to me. 

If hes an ass what word should we use for Meredith? After all she essentinally took over Kirkwall, and refused the nobility to run the city. She was the new Viscount, and for a templar she should acknowledge that it is illegal for her interfere with the politcal affairs. She sqeezed the mages into desperate situations where they resort to blood magic.

Oh and how Meredith threatens Mage hawke for taking a dominating postion, and reminding her that he is not one of her templars, and how he doesn't take orders from her during the Qunari attacks, and even if Mage Hawke render aid to Meredith, she still threatens him, but in a more polite way.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lord Raijin wrote...


If hes an ass what word should we use for Meredith? 

I can think of two, but the forum censors both them. But while she apparently has her moments of reasonableness nobody's bothering to deny she's ultimately a toxic person. (I think nobody's denying that. Is anyone denying that?)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:28 .

[Br3admax]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Raijin, relax. No need to call The Flying Grey Warden a troll. Orsino was indeed an ass, but not a stupid ass. He certainly didn't participate in any guerrilla warfare.

I'm relax Just annoyed at his statement "It was his choice to decide waging gurella warfare against the templars" Orsino was willing to surrender at the end, but it was Meredith who wanted blood. To me that was a clearly a troll like statement, not someone who is wanting to have a civil debate.

Orsino made some pretty bad decisions, but that doesn't make him as an ass.

1. Helps blood mages? Check.
2. Supports any type of defience against the KC, no matter who gets caught in the middle? Check.
3. Doesn't tell you he knew your mother's murderer until the very last second? Check.
4. Tries to call out mage Hawke? Check.

Sounds a lot like an ass to me. 

If hes an ass what word should we use for Meredith? After all she essentinally took over Kirkwall, and refused the nobility to run the city. She was the new Viscount, and for a templar she should acknowledge that it is illegal for her interfere with the politcal affairs. She sqeezed the mages into desperate situations where they resort to blood magic.

Oh and how Meredith threatens Mage hawke for taking a dominating postion, and reminding her that he is not one of her templars, and how he doesn't take orders from her during the Qunari attacks, and even if Mage Hawke render aid to Meredith, she still threatens him, but in a more polite way.

What does Meredith being anything have to do with Orsino being anything? Yes, Meredith is bad. We've established that two years ago. We're talking about Orsino here.