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[MisterJB]

Hey, remember when Adrian tried to convince Rhys to become a martyr for the cause while she would watch from safety?
And when he said "no", she just framed him for murder so he would have no choice?

She's such a good friend.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:02 .

[Master Warder Z_]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yeah, Adrian did some pretty unkind things in Asunder. Granted though, she was ****** drunk in the situation to which you were referring, and the townsfolk had threatened the group of mages and Evangeline first. The townsfolk had recently heard the news about the assassination attempt on the Divine and were pretty mad.

My problem with Adrian in that particular scene; I could write a list of what is wrong with her but let's focus only on that scene; is not that she defended herself from a mob but rather the manner in which she conducted herself.
The townsfolk was in the wrong when they tried to vent their frustrations on people who had done nothing wrong; yet, anyway; but, unlike Wynne and Rhys who attempted to appear amenable to dissuate them from a confrontation, Adrian just started provoking them as well.
I wouldn't blame any innocent mage that defended himself or herself from a mob but Adrian pulled a weapon first (her fire) and her attitude wasn't "Don't make me use this" but it was more akin to "I'm better than you, dirty peasants. Do you have a problem with that?"
Adrian is a magister in the making.

Adrian is a headless corpse in the making.

For there to be peace within Thedas the mage rebellion must be crushed with out mercy or hesitation.

After the ashes have settled the robes can go back to rotting in their prisons.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, remember when Adrian tried to convince Rhys to become a martyr for the cause while she would watch from safety?
And when he said "no", she just framed him for murder so he would have no choice?

She's such a good friend.

So she wanted him to become a martyr before she framed him? What did she wanted from him exactly?
@Master Warder Z: if the templar side will have your stance in Inquisition, then I'll defeat them. I'm not pro-mage, but I loathe extremism.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Can't we just send everything to the phantom zone already?

[EmperorSahlertz]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, remember when Adrian tried to convince Rhys to become a martyr for the cause while she would watch from safety?
And when he said "no", she just framed him for murder so he would have no choice?

She's such a good friend.

So she wanted him to become a martyr before she framed him? What did she wanted from him exactly?
@Master Warder Z: if the templar side will have your stance in Inquisition, then I'll defeat them. I'm not pro-mage, but I loathe extremism.

Anti-extremism extremism! Shenanigan!! I call shenanigan!!

[The Elder King]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Anti-extremism extremism! Shenanigan!! I call shenanigan!!

I really don't understand what you're saying.  I stated that I'd defeat the templars, not kill all of them.
If Master was saying that his goal was to bring back mages in the Circles, I'll apologize, since I misunderstood his post. I assumed he wanted to kill all mages.

[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, remember when Adrian tried to convince Rhys to become a martyr for the cause while she would watch from safety?
And when he said "no", she just framed him for murder so he would have no choice?

She's such a good friend.

So she wanted him to become a martyr before she framed him? What did she wanted from him exactly?
@Master Warder Z: if the templar side will have your stance in Inquisition, then I'll defeat them. I'm not pro-mage, but I loathe extremism.

She wanted him to pick up the sword Anders dropped and declare war upon the world and settle it to the edge of ruin. Which ended up happening because of her idiocy; Aided by the moronic Grand Enchanter who once more voted for Seperation from the Chantry and the end of Templar oversight in the circles.

The Murder she commited, the Framing of  Senior enchanter and the vote lit the powder keg that had been simmering since Kirkwall's Rebellion earlier.

In short? You can thank her for the current state of the world near single handedly.

And extremism? Hardly, The Mages are the force that must be brought to heel, Compromise is needed of course but it can only occur once they are defeated, routed and driven into the corner. Once the common man witness mages depravity in turning to the forbidden arts and rising the very dead, Public support for them will erode utterly.

So in essence i agrue for a complete Military victory, After which political compromise can occur and thus hopefully change the situation for the better. My sword has been drawn and will forever be drawn to the side of the Templars, Magic in DA is a plague and those that suffer from it and are far too often weak enough to be corrupted by it.

Those leading this rebellion are no diffrent. Therefore they must die, Its that simple to me.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Master Warder Z wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yeah, Adrian did some pretty unkind things in Asunder. Granted though, she was ****** drunk in the situation to which you were referring, and the townsfolk had threatened the group of mages and Evangeline first. The townsfolk had recently heard the news about the assassination attempt on the Divine and were pretty mad.

My problem with Adrian in that particular scene; I could write a list of what is wrong with her but let's focus only on that scene; is not that she defended herself from a mob but rather the manner in which she conducted herself.
The townsfolk was in the wrong when they tried to vent their frustrations on people who had done nothing wrong; yet, anyway; but, unlike Wynne and Rhys who attempted to appear amenable to dissuate them from a confrontation, Adrian just started provoking them as well.
I wouldn't blame any innocent mage that defended himself or herself from a mob but Adrian pulled a weapon first (her fire) and her attitude wasn't "Don't make me use this" but it was more akin to "I'm better than you, dirty peasants. Do you have a problem with that?"
Adrian is a magister in the making.

Adrian is a headless corpse in the making.

For there to be peace within Thedas the mage rebellion must be crushed with out mercy or hesitation.

After the ashes have settled the robes can go back to rotting in their prisons.

I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:18 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

hhh89 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Anti-extremism extremism! Shenanigan!! I call shenanigan!!

I really don't understand what you're saying.  I stated that I'd defeat the templars, not kill all of them.
If Master was saying that his goal was to bring back mages in the Circles, I'll apologize, since I misunderstood his post. I assumed he wanted to kill all mages.

It was merely a jest..

Though no I don't think Master wanted to kill all mages, but jsut to reconfine them to the Circles. Though the wording could have been more diplomatic I suppose, so I see where the confusion arose.

[The Elder King]

@Master Warder Z: I woudn't say that wanting to bring back the mages in the circles is extremism. I clearly misunderstood your post, since I thought you wanted to kill all mages. My apologies.

Modifié par hhh89, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:21 .

[The Elder King]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
It was merely a jest..

Though no I don't think Master wanted to kill all mages, but jsut to reconfine them to the Circles. Though the wording could have been more diplomatic I suppose, so I see where the confusion arose.

Yeah, I misunderstood his point. 

[MisterJB]

hhh89 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Hey, remember when Adrian tried to convince Rhys to become a martyr for the cause while she would watch from safety?
And when he said "no", she just framed him for murder so he would have no choice?

She's such a good friend.

So she wanted him to become a martyr before she framed him? What did she wanted from him exactly?

I can't recall at the moment. Still, I clearly recall Rhys thinking of her in these exact terms; that she'll send others to die for the cause while she stand by the wayside and reaps the profits; but I can't find just what caused him to think that right now. I was so sure it was when she went to his chambers to attempt to convince him to talk to Wynne but I just checked it and it isn't there.
So, you can discount it if you wish.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:28 .

[The Elder King]

@MisterJB: thanks for the clarification. Though what Rhys said about her confirm my opinion about her.

[Master Warder Z_]

hhh89 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
It was merely a jest..

Though no I don't think Master wanted to kill all mages, but jsut to reconfine them to the Circles. Though the wording could have been more diplomatic I suppose, so I see where the confusion arose.

Yeah, I misunderstood his point. 

Magic is a valuable resource in thedas, therefore Mages are valuable it would be foolish to completely cast them aside when you do not have to. But for there to be peace in my eyes? A lot of them will have to die, Some of the same ground will have to be recovered and peace will be fragile in the begining so horrible things will have to be done to keep order in the early days.

But the circles will be reinstuted and the world will be at peace, it has to be to face the threats that lurk within the Fade after all. This little exercise in tearing the veil further strengthens that point, The world cannot be consumed within it self during such a crisis so peace will have to be acheived and order will have to be restored.

But The templars and mages both will endure because that is what is required of them, Perhaps the circles can be less restraining and strict in the coming generations but in the imediate aftermath of the war? I doubt there will be much room for compassion.

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

From what I know, 
I woudn't necessarily kill her. I'd simply do anything in my power to reduce the influence she has in the mage rebellion.

Do you know what she did, in the end? I am trying not to spoil you, but what she did seriously pissed me off.

SPOILER




The fact that she framed Rhys of Pharamond's murdered? 

Yeah. That pissed me off to no end.

[MisterJB]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Yeah, Adrian and her cohorts will never accept anything beyond complete victory.
Just what concessions should these be? I, for one, would be willing to do away with the Right of Annulment; I just see no real purpose in it; even in situations like the "Broken Circle" which about as bad as things can get.
The Abominations must be killed, of course but there is no point in killing the mages who will be willing to help you deal with the real threat.

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

[Vulpe]

eluvianix wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Or Lambert could in an unprecedented display of awesome and badassery have torn the head off of cole and **** down his throat while reading the day's papers. Then gone for doughnuts without informing his fellow Templars, who proceeded to declare him missing prematurely.

Simply put we don't know what happened. Even though we can presume he is dead relatively safely.

But I wonder why the body is missing...That's what I don't understand. Why would Cole take the body with him?

It may be possible Cole possessed Lambert.

That could be interesting....A blood magic using spirit inside a Seeker...a contrast to Evangeline, maybe?

While I thought of the possession possibily, this paralel has never crossed my mind. Love it ! <3

eluvianix wrote...

Is it just me or the templar without a helmet looks a little like Gregoir ? 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:37 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

How would you devise attempting to determine who is possessed and who is not?

[Silfren]

Master Warder Z wrote...


And extremism? Hardly, The Mages are the force that must be brought to heel, Compromise is needed of course but it can only occur once they are defeated, routed and driven into the corner. Once the common man witness mages depravity in turning to the forbidden arts and rising the very dead, Public support for them will erode utterly.

So in essence i agrue for a complete Military victory, After which political compromise can occur and thus hopefully change the situation for the better. My sword has been drawn and will forever be drawn to the side of the Templars, Magic in DA is a plague and those that suffer from it and are far too often weak enough to be corrupted by it.

Those leading this rebellion are no diffrent. Therefore they must die, Its that simple to me.

Re: the underlined bit, you have to be joking.  If the mages were so utterly defeated in the way you describe, and the way you deem is necessary, then there wouldn't BE any compromise.  Conquering victors do NOT compromise with an utterly defeated foe.  That ain't even close to the requisite situation which would call for compromise.

[Hellion Rex]

JulianWellpit wrote...

Is it just me or the templar without a helmet looks a little like Gregoir ? 

I don't think it's Greagoir. The hair looks way too dark to be as grey as his hair should be.

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Yeah, Adrian did some pretty unkind things in Asunder. Granted though, she was ****** drunk in the situation to which you were referring, and the townsfolk had threatened the group of mages and Evangeline first. The townsfolk had recently heard the news about the assassination attempt on the Divine and were pretty mad.

My problem with Adrian in that particular scene; I could write a list of what is wrong with her but let's focus only on that scene; is not that she defended herself from a mob but rather the manner in which she conducted herself.
The townsfolk was in the wrong when they tried to vent their frustrations on people who had done nothing wrong; yet, anyway; but, unlike Wynne and Rhys who attempted to appear amenable to dissuate them from a confrontation, Adrian just started provoking them as well.
I wouldn't blame any innocent mage that defended himself or herself from a mob but Adrian pulled a weapon first (her fire) and her attitude wasn't "Don't make me use this" but it was more akin to "I'm better than you, dirty peasants. Do you have a problem with that?"
Adrian is a magister in the making.

Adrian is a headless corpse in the making.

For there to be peace within Thedas the mage rebellion must be crushed with out mercy or hesitation.

After the ashes have settled the robes can go back to rotting in their prisons.

I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Problem being, I think the original Circles WERE more palatable, and the situation today happened because the original incarnation of Circles eroded over the centuries into a scenario with the Templars having all the power and no interest in--or necessity of--making concessions.  Doing the same thing all over again may make the situation more palatable for the current generation, but without fundamental changes, as opposed to mere concessions, there's no guarantee that in even just another generation, the mages won't be right back to where they were.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It is funny how most think that compromise is always best solution it is even funnier when one side calls total domination by one side a compromise.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:40 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

MisterJB wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Yeah, Adrian and her cohorts will never accept anything beyond complete victory.
Just what concessions should these be? I, for one, would be willing to do away with the Right of Annulment; I just see no real purpose in it; even in situations like the "Broken Circle" which about as bad as things can get.
The Abominations must be killed, of course but there is no point in killing the mages who will be willing to help you deal with the real threat.

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

The idea is that the mages who are willing to help might be trying to hide that they are abominations through their cooperation, and that holding an abomination prisoner can be incredibly dangerous. It's harsh, but there's something to be said for that mentality.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

It is funny how most think that compromise always best solution it is even funnier when one side calls total domination by one side a compromise.

A: I don't think that at all. You don't compromise with a demon, it's usually a poor idea to compromise with a magister, any compromise with a bandit needs to end with him changing careers, and I think there's some hints in DA2 that compromising with the Architect is going to turn out badly. It's just that compromising to avoid bloodshed is usually a good idea.

B: The Circles aren't supposed to be total domination by the Templars. Much of the problems in the recent titles start when the Templars forget that.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[Vulpe]

eluvianix wrote...

JulianWellpit wrote...

Is it just me or the templar without a helmet looks a little like Gregoir ? 

I don't think it's Greagoir. The hair looks way too dark to be as grey as his hair should be.

The lighting isn't helping either.

[EmperorSahlertz]

MisterJB wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Yeah, Adrian and her cohorts will never accept anything beyond complete victory.
Just what concessions should these be? I, for one, would be willing to do away with the Right of Annulment; I just see no real purpose in it; even in situations like the "Broken Circle" which about as bad as things can get.
The Abominations must be killed, of course but there is no point in killing the mages who will be willing to help you deal with the real threat.

Problem is that you can't know who is actually a well-meaning mage just wanting to help and who is an Abomination just masquerading as such. And letting just a single Abomination live can be catastrophic later.