1858 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Also I don't think getting rid of Rights are the best idea. Making it so they're not so easy to pull willy nilly would be a good start though.

Even Tevinter keeps the Rights. They serve a function.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

How would you devise attempting to determine who is possessed and who is not?

Mages themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

[Hellion Rex]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

The idea is that the mages who are willing to help might be trying to hide that they are abominations through their cooperation, and that holding an abomination prisoner can be incredibly dangerous. It's harsh, but there's something to be said for that mentality.

And that mentality unfortunately is what got us to where we are now.

[Ryzaki]

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

There's no proof that normal mages can sense that. Indeed if you decide to annull the circle Irving flat out admits there's no way for him to tell who's been turned. And neither Hawke nor Bethany can detect if Keran has an extra passanger.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:43 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
I think the mages can be persuaded to accept the Circles, if the Templars make some concessions in order to make them more palatable. Though Adrian will have to complete the process you describe first.

Yeah, Adrian and her cohorts will never accept anything beyond complete victory.
Just what concessions should these be? I, for one, would be willing to do away with the Right of Annulment; I just see no real purpose in it; even in situations like the "Broken Circle" which about as bad as things can get.
The Abominations must be killed, of course but there is no point in killing the mages who will be willing to help you deal with the real threat.

Problem is that you can't know who is actually a well-meaning mage just wanting to help and who is an Abomination just masquerading as such. And letting just a single Abomination live can be catastrophic later.

Eee i don't know but almost every if not every abomnation go into rampage after possession and don't know how world is working...

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and
abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in
DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

Yyy no mages can do that too...
anders just attacked guy nothing special

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:44 .

[Hellion Rex]

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

Not necessary, Ryz. One was also a SPIRIT HEALER, who probably could tell through his abilities, regardless of Justice's presence.

[Hellion Rex]

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

There's no proof that normal mages can sense that. Indeed if you decide to annull the circle Irving flat out admits there's no way for him to tell who's been turned. And neither Hawke nor Bethany can detect if Keran has an extra passanger.

Neither are Hawke or Bethany necessarily trained as spirit mediums.

[Silfren]

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

There's no proof that normal mages can sense that. Indeed if you decide to annull the circle Irving flat out admits there's no way for him to tell who's been turned. And neither Hawke nor Bethany can detect if Keran has an extra passanger.

Point.  But is it actually shown that Merrill's ability to detect possession is based on her blood magic?  I don't recall if Bethany was shown to have that ability or not.

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

How would you devise attempting to determine who is possessed and who is not?

Mages themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

You would probably need a spirit medium or specialist that is also a Loyalist to earn the trust of the Order.

[Silfren]

eluvianix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

Not necessary, Ryz. One was also a SPIRIT HEALER, who probably could tell through his abilities, regardless of Justice's presence.

But so was Rhys, and doesn't recognize it in Wynne, though.  You'd think he of all people would be able to.  I have to retract my comment; it doesn't appear to be a general ability available to just any mage.  Though maybe you have to actively seek it out, rather than just be able to "sense" it.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[Ryzaki]

eluvianix wrote...
Not necessary, Ryz. One was also a SPIRIT HEALER, who probably could tell through his abilities, regardless of Justice's presence.

He uses an attack to detect Keran not healing. An attack that only hurts spirits/demons. There's a pretty good chance that was Justice's attack.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yyy no mages can do that too...

The only mages we ever see doing that are bloodmages and abominations it stands to reason normal mages can't. Otherwise what's the excuse for mage Hawke being unable to? Or Bethany? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

There's no proof that normal mages can sense that. Indeed if you decide to annull the circle Irving flat out admits there's no way for him to tell who's been turned. And neither Hawke nor Bethany can detect if Keran has an extra passanger.

Point.  But is it actually shown that Merrill's ability to detect possession is based on her blood magic?  I don't recall if Bethany was shown to have that ability or not.

It looked like Merrill smelled the blood IIRC.

[The Elder King]

Bethany doesn't have that ability. Only Anders and Merrill could do it, as far as I recall.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Only Anders and Merrill can be asked to check for the possession as I recall, and Merrill certainly did something to Keran's blood when she tested it.

[MisterJB]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

How would you devise attempting to determine who is possessed and who is not?

Stricter surveillance for the survivors; rotate guards frequently to avoid corruption; maybe even lay some traps for the demons such as assigning a Templar that is clearly discontent with his position to guard the suspected mage. If the demon attempts to corrupt it, we'll know it's there.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ryzaki wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
Not necessary, Ryz. One was also a SPIRIT HEALER, who probably could tell through his abilities, regardless of Justice's presence.

He uses an attack to detect Keran not healing.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Yyy no mages can do that too...

The
only mages we ever see doing that are bloodmages and abominations it
stands to reason normal mages can't. Otherwise what's the excuse for
mage hawke being unable to? Or Bethany? 

Adnders only attacked guy with magic nothing more and well hawke is retarded i don't mention that guy freed superpowerful darkspawn , gave tallis list that will cause world war and his iq was 80...

[Hellion Rex]

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Blood mages and abominations themselves can detect possession, per Anders and Merrill in DA2.  Of course, you'd have to be willing to trust that mage's word. 

FTFY

Not necessary, Ryz. One was also a SPIRIT HEALER, who probably could tell through his abilities, regardless of Justice's presence.

But so was Rhys, and doesn't recognize it in Wynne, though.  You'd think he of all people would be able to.  I have to retract my comment; it doesn't appear to be a general ability available to just any mage.  Though maybe you have to actively seek it out, rather than just be able to "sense" it.

I feel like Wynne's possession might be the exception in regards to this topic.

[Ryzaki]

Silfren wrote...

Point.  But is it actually shown that Merrill's ability to detect possession is based on her blood magic?  I don't recall if Bethany was shown to have that ability or not.

Pretty sure Merrill did something with blood and neither Bethany nor Hawke can sense it either. Either that or she sniffed the ground (which makes no sense since Keran was floating most of the time).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:50 .

[MisterJB]

Ander's method assumes that demons are instinctive creatures that couldn't take a blow laying down in order to gain passage in a meatsuit which we know is not true; demons are cunning.
As for Merril's...even Andralla never mentioned testing one's blood for demonic characteristics so, I think that's more gameplay contrivances than anything.

[Ryzaki]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Adnders only attacked guy with magic nothing more and well hawke is retarded i don't mention that guy freed superpowerful darkspawn , gave tallis list that will cause world war and his iq was 80...

He attacked him with an attack that only affects spirits/demons. As for Hawke's "retardeness" that doesn't explain Bethany (besides Hawke can sense demons just fine as the deep roads show). It's simply not an average ability.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Ander's method assumes that demons are instinctive creatures that couldn't take a blow laying down in order to gain passage in a meatsuit which we know is not true; demons are cunning.
As for Merril's...even Andralla never mentioned testing one's blood for demonic characteristics so, I think that's more gameplay contrivances than anything.

Well, technically Adralla's litany dealt with enthrallment and mind control, not outright demonic possession.

[Hellion Rex]

Ryzaki wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Point.  But is it actually shown that Merrill's ability to detect possession is based on her blood magic?  I don't recall if Bethany was shown to have that ability or not.

Pretty sure Merrill did something with blood and neither Bethany nor Hawke can sense it either. Either that or she sniffed the ground (which makes no sense since Keran was floating most of the time).

Merrill says that "There's no scent of the demon in the blood." Watching it on YT.

[Ryzaki]

MisterJB wrote...

Ander's method assumes that demons are instinctive creatures that couldn't take a blow laying down in order to gain passage in a meatsuit which we know is not true; demons are cunning.
As for Merril's...even Andralla never mentioned testing one's blood for demonic characteristics so, I think that's more gameplay contrivances than anything.

It might've been a really hard hit. It doesn't affect Keran adversely but it might be enough to cripple a demon. But yeah gameplay contrivances. Either way the only mage party members who can detect the demon aren't normal mages.

eluvianix wrote...
Merrill says that "There's no scent of the demon in the blood." Watching it on YT.

There we go thank you! I was trying to look but youtube didn't want to work for me.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:52 .

[Silfren]

MisterJB wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Of course,  there needs to be measures to deal with the possiblity of demons lying dormant in the mages who survive but I think placing them under even stricter surveillance and separating them so that; should those survivors be possessed; you only have to deal with a demon at a time rather than an army of them is a more balanced reaction rather killing them all on the chance they are possessed.

How would you devise attempting to determine who is possessed and who is not?

Stricter surveillance for the survivors; rotate guards frequently to avoid corruption; maybe even lay some traps for the demons such as assigning a Templar that is clearly discontent with his position to guard the suspected mage. If the demon attempts to corrupt it, we'll know it's there.

Oh, how cute.  You'd deliberately set a trap to provoke ANOTHER demonic assault. 

1) when would the strict surveillance end? You've made it clear time and again that you don't think mages could ever be trusted.  Do you honestly believe a demon-possessed mage wouldn't simply bide their time until the surveillance was done?  You'd have to put all the surviving mages under constant surveillance for life, essentially--especially if the demon in question was capable of planning for the long haul. 

2)Putting a clearly discontent Templar in place assumes that this Templar would somehow rise above temptation and not allow themselves to be corrupted.  You're not, apparently, allowing for the possibility that this templar, being clearly discontent, might fall to corruption...and now you've got at least one possessed mage and a corrupted Templar. 

What exactly about this plan of yours is supposed to be a good idea, per your own often stated beliefs?

Modifié par Silfren, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:55 .

[MisterJB]

Silfren wrote...
Problem being, I think the original Circles WERE more palatable, and the situation today happened because the original incarnation of Circles eroded over the centuries into a scenario with the Templars having all the power and no interest in--or necessity of--making concessions.  Doing the same thing all over again may make the situation more palatable for the current generation, but without fundamental changes, as opposed to mere concessions,

First of all, I don't recall anything that suggests the Circles have changed anything since their inception beyond the addition of the Right of Annulment. The Templars did not have "all the power" when the Circle was created and they also did not have it in the Dragon Age. For example, the Knight Commander can't enter the phylactery chamber without the First Enchanter accompanying him which means that the KC can't pursue mages unless the FE agrees to it. Same with the Rite of Tranquility.

Second, fundamental changes are acquired through concessions. Of course, they must discuss just what these "fundamental changes" imply.

there's no guarantee that in even just another generation, the mages won't be right back to where they were.

When Pro-Templars express the same fears, we are called paranoid.

Modifié par MisterJB, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:57 .