Post-refuse everyone dies.
Refuse ending canonical?
Débuté par
DesioPL
, déc. 04 2013 08:42
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#27
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:34
FlyingSquirrel
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Han Shot First wrote...
Post-refuse everyone dies.
Eventually, yes, but probably not right after Shepard refuses. *Something* happened to get Liara's time capsule data stored on that presumably hidden world, unless she had already finished it and arranged for its distribution before the battle on Earth. The other ending slides also show asari, krogan, and turians still fighting on other planets besides Earth, so somebody is still alive even if you assume Sword, Hammer, and Shield are completely gone.
#28
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:39
FlyingSquirrel
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themikefest wrote...
It would be interesting if the refuse ending is used for the nexr game and starts right after Shepard refuses the Catalyst.
You could have a game where everyone that can be alive in the next game or everyone that can be dead won't be in the next game. The only 3 that can't die at high ems but at low ems is edi, James and T'soni
I would let the robot and T'soni be killed and keep James alive with femshep, Joker, Samantha and Adams. The robot would lose its platform and just be the ship. We would need some new squadmates.
Any game relying on a canonized ending of ME3 should have Shepard dead and the remaining Normandy crew playing only minor roles, IMO. That way, anybody who doesn't like the canonized ending can approach it as a sort of alternate universe and concentrate on role-playing new characters rather than having to either (a) abandon some of our Shepards altogether or (
go back to ME3 and make all of them pick the canon ending even if it doesn't make sense for the character.
#29
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Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 04:42
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Or.. maybe they should just bury the franchise, like they seemingly meant to do at first, and move on to whatever the hell that other IP Hudson is talking about.
The endings we got didn't seem to be written with any kind of continuity in mind. But now they want their cake and eat it too.
The endings we got didn't seem to be written with any kind of continuity in mind. But now they want their cake and eat it too.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 05 décembre 2013 - 04:43 .
#30
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 09:43
Han Shot First
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FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Post-refuse everyone dies.
Eventually, yes, but probably not right after Shepard refuses. *Something* happened to get Liara's time capsule data stored on that presumably hidden world, unless she had already finished it and arranged for its distribution before the battle on Earth. The other ending slides also show asari, krogan, and turians still fighting on other planets besides Earth, so somebody is still alive even if you assume Sword, Hammer, and Shield are completely gone.
That would be a really dark and depressing game however. You'd start with Shepard dead and everyone else doomed, and play out the last days of galactic civilization. That would actually be many times more grimdark than the original endings to Mass Effect 3. Worse, it would canonize Shepard being defeated.
Given that the depressing tone of the original endings (which are a ray of sunshine in comparison to Refuse) were a major source of fan anger, I can't see Bioware ever running with a post-Refuse game. It would go over like a lead balloon.
#31
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:08
FlyingSquirrel
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Han Shot First wrote...
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Post-refuse everyone dies.
Eventually, yes, but probably not right after Shepard refuses. *Something* happened to get Liara's time capsule data stored on that presumably hidden world, unless she had already finished it and arranged for its distribution before the battle on Earth. The other ending slides also show asari, krogan, and turians still fighting on other planets besides Earth, so somebody is still alive even if you assume Sword, Hammer, and Shield are completely gone.
That would be a really dark and depressing game however. You'd start with Shepard dead and everyone else doomed, and play out the last days of galactic civilization. That would actually be many times more grimdark than the original endings to Mass Effect 3. Worse, it would canonize Shepard being defeated.
Given that the depressing tone of the original endings (which are a ray of sunshine in comparison to Refuse) were a major source of fan anger, I can't see Bioware ever running with a post-Refuse game. It would go over like a lead balloon.
Oh, I'm not denying that, and I don't think for a moment that Bioware will do this. I'm just saying that, theoretically speaking, it could be an interesting game, and one that I could comfortably imagine as happening in a sort of alternate universe since Shepard would already be lying dead on the Citadel.
And while it would be depressing, there would also be something uniquely heroic about people who know they're doomed and aren't fighting for themselves or anyone they know, but for future species they haven't even met to have a chance.
#32
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:25
Han Shot First
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FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Post-refuse everyone dies.
Eventually, yes, but probably not right after Shepard refuses. *Something* happened to get Liara's time capsule data stored on that presumably hidden world, unless she had already finished it and arranged for its distribution before the battle on Earth. The other ending slides also show asari, krogan, and turians still fighting on other planets besides Earth, so somebody is still alive even if you assume Sword, Hammer, and Shield are completely gone.
That would be a really dark and depressing game however. You'd start with Shepard dead and everyone else doomed, and play out the last days of galactic civilization. That would actually be many times more grimdark than the original endings to Mass Effect 3. Worse, it would canonize Shepard being defeated.
Given that the depressing tone of the original endings (which are a ray of sunshine in comparison to Refuse) were a major source of fan anger, I can't see Bioware ever running with a post-Refuse game. It would go over like a lead balloon.
Oh, I'm not denying that, and I don't think for a moment that Bioware will do this. I'm just saying that, theoretically speaking, it could be an interesting game, and one that I could comfortably imagine as happening in a sort of alternate universe since Shepard would already be lying dead on the Citadel.
And while it would be depressing, there would also be something uniquely heroic about people who know they're doomed and aren't fighting for themselves or anyone they know, but for future species they haven't even met to have a chance.
On that note, I think an expansion to a ME game focused on the last days of the Protheans could be interesting. Bioware could also get away with it without sparking fan outrage, as it doesn't canonize death and destruction for everything the fans grew attached to over the course of five years and three games.
#33
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:32
KaiserShep
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FlyingSquirrel wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Post-refuse everyone dies.
Eventually, yes, but probably not right after Shepard refuses. *Something* happened to get Liara's time capsule data stored on that presumably hidden world, unless she had already finished it and arranged for its distribution before the battle on Earth. The other ending slides also show asari, krogan, and turians still fighting on other planets besides Earth, so somebody is still alive even if you assume Sword, Hammer, and Shield are completely gone.
Even if it's not immediate, post-refuse is a slow grind to extinction for all the races we're familiar with, save for maybe the yagh. There's no real potential here for an interesting story, unless you're interested in having a game based on the last moments of whatever's left of the galactic community. That said, I could see this working better for the protheans, though, but then it would just be a straight TPS with protheans.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 décembre 2013 - 11:34 .
#34
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Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:32
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I like Mass Effect to be more about beginnings. Not endings. Not galactic extinction. But something that sort of channels the wonder of looking up at the stars, what's out there in space.. Mass Effect was supposed to a homage to that, with all of the astronaut references and whatnot. The doom and destruction weren't the main thing. Exploration was. Or was for a second.
I think ME3 tried to end on the same note, by bringing in Buzz Aldrin as the Stargazer.
To hell with Liara's time capsule. She's a pessimist. She's a pessimist in ME1 (especially at the romance scene) and a pessimist throughout ME3. She's alright in ME2.
I think ME3 tried to end on the same note, by bringing in Buzz Aldrin as the Stargazer.
To hell with Liara's time capsule. She's a pessimist. She's a pessimist in ME1 (especially at the romance scene) and a pessimist throughout ME3. She's alright in ME2.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 12:34 .
#35
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 03:31
Jon The Wizard
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I doubt they're going to do Refuse as a canon ending. Hell, if anything they would probably make that the "Can't Import" ending like they did the Shepard Dies In ME2 Ending.
#36
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 07:33
Vicious
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StreetMagic wrote...
Or.. maybe they should just bury the franchise, like they seemingly meant to do at first, and move on to whatever the hell that other IP Hudson is talking about.
last of us with dialogue trees. mark my words.
#37
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 07:54
KaiserShep
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Jon The Wizard wrote...
I doubt they're going to do Refuse as a canon ending. Hell, if anything they would probably make that the "Can't Import" ending like they did the Shepard Dies In ME2 Ending.
This is pretty much how I regard refuse. Refuse is pretty much a total fail for the cycle, so there's no way anyone at BioWare would give it strong consideration, especially, as others have mentioned, it wasn't even part of the original ending.
#38
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 09:21
Farangbaa
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What the Stargazer tells you doesn't have to be true. For all we know a genius Krogan finds a Reaper weak spot and they win the whole thing.
#39
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 09:29
KaiserShep
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The beacon does point to failure though.
#40
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Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 09:39
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In some sense, I think it's the perfect ending, not for any kind of continuation, but never coming to the franchise again.
"Who's like us?"
"Damn few. And they're all dead."
Walters is death obsessed. That's my conclusion with a lot of his stories. Death = depth and drama! So more and more death = more depth and drama! If you get tired of it, might as well pay him back by killing everyone in the entire galaxy. Seems fitting, in an ironic sort of way. But don't expect it to ever be accounted for in another game.
"Who's like us?"
"Damn few. And they're all dead."
Walters is death obsessed. That's my conclusion with a lot of his stories. Death = depth and drama! So more and more death = more depth and drama! If you get tired of it, might as well pay him back by killing everyone in the entire galaxy. Seems fitting, in an ironic sort of way. But don't expect it to ever be accounted for in another game.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 09:41 .
#41
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 09:41
KaiserShep
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Nuts to that. Just slap on the old genocide and send the enemy back to the black hole they crawled out of.
#42
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 10:12
SwobyJ
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StreetMagic wrote...
In some sense, I think it's the perfect ending, not for any kind of continuation, but never coming to the franchise again.
"Who's like us?"
"Damn few. And they're all dead."
Walters is death obsessed. That's my conclusion with a lot of his stories. Death = depth and drama! So more and more death = more depth and drama! If you get tired of it, might as well pay him back by killing everyone in the entire galaxy. Seems fitting, in an ironic sort of way. But don't expect it to ever be accounted for in another game.
Oh come on.
It started with the giant machines that killed trillions+ over millions+ years.
A fight without a lot of death wouldn't be a fight.
They got that RIGHT until the ending of confusion.
#43
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Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 10:33
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SwobyJ wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
In some sense, I think it's the perfect ending, not for any kind of continuation, but never coming to the franchise again.
"Who's like us?"
"Damn few. And they're all dead."
Walters is death obsessed. That's my conclusion with a lot of his stories. Death = depth and drama! So more and more death = more depth and drama! If you get tired of it, might as well pay him back by killing everyone in the entire galaxy. Seems fitting, in an ironic sort of way. But don't expect it to ever be accounted for in another game.
Oh come on.
It started with the giant machines that killed trillions+ over millions+ years.
A fight without a lot of death wouldn't be a fight.
They got that RIGHT until the ending of confusion.
I'm not talking about "lots of death", in terms of numbers or facts. I'm just talking about the concept of death. Death with a capital D. Mass Effect is a bit like listening to goth music. Funny as it seems. Death shapes the whole tone of the games. It's not a story that asserts life. Even if you do everything right (as much as possible), and try to go for victorious playthroughs, in the end, Shepard's thoughts succumb to death anyways.. finally done in by the kid on Earth. He could have had a whole surviving suicide squad, but his mind is on death anyways. That's the only story they want to tell.
I pick Destroy (so far), but there's a side of me that sees the appeal (or maybe humor?) of Refuse. All my of hours of play, all the particular stories and NPCs I met.. everything I ever knew ended up getting funneled into being about one thing: death. Refuse is just making it final.
edit: I'm finding it difficult to articulate what I mean. Basically, it's a morbid story. Maybe it should just end morbidly.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 10:42 .
#44
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 11:44
SwobyJ
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No.. I think I get what you mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
Modifié par SwobyJ, 06 décembre 2013 - 11:45 .
#45
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 07:53
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SwobyJ wrote...
No.. I think I get what you mean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros
I suppose that's close enough. You could say the setting, and the plot together are Ouroboros. It's destroying itself.
More simply though, I just think they didn't address any subject in detail, except death (well death, and artificial life). Anything else I wanted to reflect on is passed over or forgotten. It always comes back to death. Even my "LI" knows that: "I know you only have one love in your life: The Reapers."
I always say that you can pretty much get the whole story in the beginning at Eden Prime - when you meet Manuel. And he talks about death. You can knock him out and assert life.. and the spend the games fighting to assert life.. but in the end, your assertions never mattered. If this is all they managed the first 3 games, picking "Refuse" is tempting. Why hope that they can carry the franchise in new directions? All they know how to talk about is Death.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 07:56 .
#46
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 08:09
KaiserShep
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Lol Jack says that? That's actually pretty amusing.
#47
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Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 08:10
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KaiserShep wrote...
Lol Jack says that? That's actually pretty amusing.
Well, she finishes it with "Too bad. Because I'm a better lay."
#48
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 08:15
durasteel
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StreetMagic wrote...
... Why hope that they can carry the franchise in new directions? All they know how to talk about is Death.
Learn a little bit about Montreal, and you'll understand that the new team is likely to be focussed on life. It's that kind of city.
Modifié par durasteel, 06 décembre 2013 - 08:48 .
#49
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Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 08:16
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durasteel wrote...
StreetMagic wrote...
... Why hope that they can carry the franchise in new directions? All they know how to talk about is Death.
Learn a little bit about Montreal, and you'll understand that the new team is likely to be focussed on life. It's that kind of city.
lol... Interesting.. I never expected a reply like this. Locale can change things?
I'll have to consider it.
#50
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 08:19
KaiserShep
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Montreal's a great place. Tim Horton's everywhere, great restaurants, lots of cheap liquor and a clean Metro system. Hard to really think of death when living there, unless you really don't like winter.
