120 réponses à ce sujet

[rjshae]

Thanks, IAmDeathComeForThee, and best wishes for your course work.

[Eguintir Eligard]

This is a cool project not sure how I missed it. I think you were right about lengthening the legs as you mentioned (if that's still easy to do at this point). The arms and legs have somewhat of a "dwarf" proportion to them. I'd say about 20-25% length in both would work wonders.

[rjshae]

Sorry guys this has been put on the backburner for a little bit.  I have every intention to come back to it, but it may not be until summer that I have it fully released.  I'll be starting some classes and the reading already is super intense and takes up most of my evenings.  But here's another image just for fun. 

 

Hello IAmDeathComeForThee. Did you have a chance to get back to this during the Summer break? It would be pretty cool if you happened to get it working. Thank you!

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

I'll take a look at it tonight. I'll try and get it to fit to an ig skeleton as well to save a lot of work and just get it ig. What would work best, fire giant? Or do all giants use the same skeleton..

[Tchos]

Fire giants and frost giants seem to use a different skeleton.  Frost giants in their idle pose are looking down, as if looking at a smaller creature, while fire giants appear to be looking straight ahead.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

I think I'll go with the fire giant.  loaded up the skeleton and seems like it'll be a good match.  What is the typical polygon limit again for a creature?  What should I put this guy at?  I'm making a new base mesh with zRemesher and Decimation Master.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Fire giants use the dwarf skeleton. It's pretty obvious from their appearance and their written description which describes them as big dwarves.

 

The absolute highest recoreded poly count in game is just under 6k for one of the (blue?) dragons.

 

A detailed, larger creature is quite welcome in the 2k to 5k range. Since yours is kind of a solitary beast I'd say right for the 6k is fine.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

No, it actually does have it's own skeleton with its own set of animations. And if you pull up the fire giant and the frost giant in the toolset, they are very similar proportionally. I did this screen just for a quick comparison. As you can see the scales are a bit different but you get the idea. The fire is just a wider frost with slightly lowered hips. The dwarfs almost have no shins with their knees nearly touching their feet. It goes frost, fire, dwarf from left to right.

But, anyway, 6k would be nice to work with alright.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Since they do have their own skeletons I guess you would pick which matches your proportions. One thing I am curious about for my own fat guy project, and possible future ones, is must the skeleton be an exact match? Or can you move bones, and the animations will still work, just from different starting positions?

 

I would assume your squatty looking model would best match the one with low knee caps.

[kamal_]

Is there an actual poly limit for creatures? I'd think modern computers could deal with having some more nwn2 creatures with > 5000 polys ?

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Proportions don't match the dwarfs skeleton at all, but very well with the fire giant's skel. The fire giant looks and attacks downwards like the frost as well.

@ kamal- my thoughts exactly and I dont believe there is any said limit on polygons. I've imported a 25k mesh without issues, although it was static.

[Eguintir Eligard]

It's more in terms of consistency. If the mesh is so ridiculous that it makes the world around it look like 8 bit nes, then it kind of ruins the surrounding world.

I see a reasonableness to extending to anything under 10k. I don't see a 6k limit as so bad though, I would assume the vast majority (95%+) of your meshes detail would be preserved to the human eye.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

For this model you wouldn't notice the differenc between 6 and 10k in this iso game. There is a fair jump in quality, however, between 3 and 6k I can tell you that would be noticeable ig.

[4760]

@ kamal- my thoughts exactly and I dont believe there is any said limit on polygons. I've imported a 25k mesh without issues, although it was static.

I stopped at 13k without problems either, the only thing is that it increases the loading time of the area quite noticeably.

[rjshae]

Proportions don't match the dwarfs skeleton at all, but very well with the fire giant's skel. The fire giant looks and attacks downwards like the frost as well.

@ kamal- my thoughts exactly and I dont believe there is any said limit on polygons. I've imported a 25k mesh without issues, although it was static.

 

I believe there's an absolute limit set by the MDB file format--the vertices index for a triangle face is a uint16 (4 byte) variable. It's still pretty large: 65,535 vertices, or at least 65535/3 = 21,845 faces. You can do more if the faces share a lot of common vertices.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Ya I know what you mean about where the "differences" start. If 3k to 6k is the sweet spot, and even the game itself goes to 5.8k models, I'd say 6k is where it's at. I'm having trouble with my fatty sticking to 4k or under (but I'm very new and very bad). We will see where it ends up.

[-Semper-]

Is there an actual poly limit for creatures? I'd think modern computers could deal with having some more nwn2 creatures with > 5000 polys ?

 

not the hardware is the limit, but the engine. nwn2 will never be capable of what modern engines can handle. today it ain't uncommon to draw hundreds of thousands of polys in one frame. just look at the ported buildings from oblivion. while it runs perfectly smooth a similar scene in nwn2 (with the buildings used) stutters like hell. it's true that today there's no problem to exceed the polylimit in a few cases (especially when lod models are being used), but there's still a point not that far where performance starts to crumble. it's always best to deal with the limits.

 

just thinking of all the mods (hair, heads, custom props, etc.) with thousands of polys and precious performance literally wasted because there's no lod data drives me mad. this all adds to the render time.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Ive imported a lot of Skyrim stuff, and honestly the high polygons have little to no stuttering effect on my end.  As 4760 mentioned, what I notice most is load times in the toolset.  Mind you a lot of it I use poly-cruncher on, but even so the models are generally  higher than the old standards and things run fine.   Honestly, for whatever reason though, whenever I use the City Hak which is the oblivion conversion, my frames bog down big time.  This honestly doesnt happen elsewhere with things Ive experimented on.  So I'd be weary jumping to conclusions based on that mod alone.  You'd have to do your own testing, however, rather than take my word for it.

But anyway, as for the Cyclops.  I adjusted his proportions to look more "giant" like.  Here are the results.  Starting on clothing now.
http://vimeo.com/101764915
(hmm, vimeo won't embed this time around for me...)

[Tchos]

The first things I'd check in the City Hak for slowdowns, aside from polygon count, would be whether they don't have LOD models, and whether the textures don't have mipmaps.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Hey I just wanted to clarify for you about the cyclops dude. When I said 6k, that is "triangles", as in mesh count, so basically half the limit for the number of polygons compared to what you see working with quads/squares.

 

So if working with quads the limit would 3k area.

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Yes, dont worry. I know the difference between tris and quads. That video I posted of the model has 13 million tris.

[-Semper-]

Ive imported a lot of Skyrim stuff, and honestly the high polygons have little to no stuttering effect on my end.

 

still it's the engine which bottlenecks the polycount ultimately.

[Eguintir Eligard]

That guy is so disgustingly flabby

[IAmDeathComeForThee]

Thanks

 

Well my 3ds has started crashing on startup.  Load screen appears for a few seconds, then I get an error and a crash.     Anyone with any ideas why this would all of the sudden start happening or have had it happen to them?

[Eguintir Eligard]

Error no, but mine started to load and stay hidden forever. Had to delete the ini files in the base directory. ALl they do is set custom preferences and so on. Doesn't sound like a related issue but you could try it.