677 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackrising]

Petedj06 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

It's not that Card is opposed to gay marriage, it is that he actively contributes his money to well-known anti-gay funds. By seeing his movie/readin his books, you give him money. He then takes this money, and pays the well-known anti-gay funds. Some people do not like the idea of their money going to these funds.

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

[Petedj06]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

It's not that Card is opposed to gay marriage, it is that he actively contributes his money to well-known anti-gay funds. By seeing his movie/readin his books, you give him money. He then takes this money, and pays the well-known anti-gay funds. Some people do not like the idea of their money going to these funds.

I don't like being forced to pay for other people's abortions via government-mandated healthcare, so I guess I can sympathize, but the thing is (to my understanding) Card sold the movie rights over a decade ago. To my understanding he doesn't get paid for the movie itself - he got his money back then, so boycotting the film achieves nothing.

 I read his book, and watched the movie (and enjoyed them both). I never liked boycotting anything. I'm sure there are plenty of people, be they LBGT or supporters who worked hard on that movie. They are getting a paycheck from it , same as anyone else. I just wanted to clarify what the issue was.

and yes, it is similar to the abortion issue. People don't like paying for what they don't like.

[Ryzaki]

Lazengan wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Oh FFS please no

Video games are not your medium for your liberal agenda and other self gratification garbage

http://www.youtube.c...B5snyJfXk#t=382

These "people" make me cringe. They don't even make games, and they force others to accommodate them

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

Well none of these are games so why would you care?

Because

things like this and Aneeta Sarkeesean's garbage give the industry and developpers the illusion of demand for such content. 

Can you imagine the next triple A releases of 2014? Entire "games" filled with boring worthless text, terrible terrible artistic integrity, and actually zero gameplay because to do so would be "demeaning" to women and transexuals. *Shudder*

Yes because the only way to not make a offensive game is to have zero gameplay (I guess tetris isn't gameplay now?), terrible artistic integrity (god I hate those words so much. I can smear my crap on the wall and call it art. That doesn't make it particularly valuable or even worth anything) as for boring worthless text? You're really saying games can't have text that's not offensive? Games can't manage that? Despite plenty having done so?

[Lazengan]

Blackrising wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

It's not that Card is opposed to gay marriage, it is that he actively contributes his money to well-known anti-gay funds. By seeing his movie/readin his books, you give him money. He then takes this money, and pays the well-known anti-gay funds. Some people do not like the idea of their money going to these funds.

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

Urgh

The Bioware community is just so liberal it makes me want to punch a glass window

[ParkBom]

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

Modifié par JusticarFlareon, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[CynicalShep]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Because orientation doesn't matter, unless of course a character is hetero, then it's an affront for some reason.

Which is precisely my problem with it. You can't cry equality and advocate for something else.

Plaintiff wrote...

Lol, as if it had any impact whatsoever on the ending. So make it that chicks can marry.

A better question to ask would be why you are so adamant that Alistair must be a man and that he must be able to marry Anora. It's not vital to the gameplay, or to the plot.

Nothing in Dragon Age (or any work of fiction, for that matter) is "needed". The only reason anything exists in a story is because the writers wanted it that way.

But then you are changing the lore. I don't mind it, but isn't this the "pandering" that everyone is talking about? It's adding something for the sake of it, unless you re-write the plot to make it relevant. 

Alistair could be a parrot for all I care. He is a heterosexual male in the game though, so I don't see why that should change. Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king. You don't see me asking that Zevran be made heterosexual, now do you?

[Petedj06]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

I think it's trolling

[Ryzaki]

Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king.

I'm sorry but WHAT?

Where on earth...

What does him being straight have anything to do with him being king?

[Lazengan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Oh FFS please no

Video games are not your medium for your liberal agenda and other self gratification garbage

http://www.youtube.c...B5snyJfXk#t=382

These "people" make me cringe. They don't even make games, and they force others to accommodate them

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

Well none of these are games so why would you care?

Because

things like this and Aneeta Sarkeesean's garbage give the industry and developpers the illusion of demand for such content. 

Can you imagine the next triple A releases of 2014? Entire "games" filled with boring worthless text, terrible terrible artistic integrity, and actually zero gameplay because to do so would be "demeaning" to women and transexuals. *Shudder*

Yes because the only way to not make a offensive game is to have zero gameplay (I guess tetris isn't gameplay now?), terrible artistic integrity (god I hate those words so much. I can smear my crap on the wall and call it art. That doesn't make it particularly valuable or even worth anything) as for boring worthless text? You're really saying games can't have text that's not offensive? Games can't manage that? Despite plenty having done so?

It's not even about games anymore

these people do not actually care about games. They want to tell their sob stories. It's clear that they lack the direction and creativity to write books, and perhaps lack the funding for a video project. Thus they infest the next best medium: video games. 

It's like how music 100 years ago was actual melodic composition. Now it's a way for liberals to ****** in your face (actual music composition in these works nonwithstading and terrible). 

Related: 

[Plaintiff]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

Lulz.

"How dare those gays boycott Chik-Fil-A! It's not as if they use condiments to write anti-gay messages on their chicken sandwiches!"

People aren't upset about the content of the product, they're upset about all the money that is now funding an outspoken bigot who, until just this year, was on the board of directors for an organization that acitvely campaigns against same-sex marriage.

Or rather, all the money that would be funding Card, if the film had actually made a profit.

[Petedj06]

Lazengan wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

It's not that Card is opposed to gay marriage, it is that he actively contributes his money to well-known anti-gay funds. By seeing his movie/readin his books, you give him money. He then takes this money, and pays the well-known anti-gay funds. Some people do not like the idea of their money going to these funds.

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

Urgh

The Bioware community is just so liberal it makes me want to punch a glass window

don't do that, you will hurt your hand. Just try not getting so upset over little things, like people politely asking for a non-offensive transgender character in a game.

[daveliam]

CynicalShep wrote...

But then you are changing the lore. I don't mind it, but isn't this the "pandering" that everyone is talking about? It's adding something for the sake of it, unless you re-write the plot to make it relevant. 

Alistair could be a parrot for all I care. He is a heterosexual male in the game though, so I don't see why that should change. Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king. You don't see me asking that Zevran be made heterosexual, now do you?

I think their point was more about the initial creation of Alistair, Anora, and the lore.  They were pointing out that there was no reason that Alistair had to be straight to begin with.  I don't think people, at least in this conversation, are advocating for changing anything.  The topic of the thread (let's remember this before it gets closed down.....again) is about creating transgender NPCs, not changing existing NPCs to transgender characters. 

Also, remember that revealing that a character that we know already is actually transgender or bisexual or gay or lesbian isn't changing them unless it directly conflicts with what we already know about them. 

[Lazengan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

And I agree. Women don't actually care about competitive multiplayer. They prefer games with social aspects and play for social reasons. Older women also enjoy single player RPGs for self immersion and stories. All competitve gamers in pure multiplayer games will predominantly always be male. 

Modifié par Lazengan, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:49 .

[Lazengan]

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

A reviewer gave GTA 5 a poor review because "I couldn't relate to it as a transexual". What the actual ****

That reminds me of the brouhaha some tried to stir up over the film "Ender's Game" because the author of the book (who did not write the film) was opposed to gay marriage. It's a sci-fi story which in no way broaches the issue, and yet they've got a whole section on the "controversy" in the Wikipedia article. It's ridiculous.

It's not that Card is opposed to gay marriage, it is that he actively contributes his money to well-known anti-gay funds. By seeing his movie/readin his books, you give him money. He then takes this money, and pays the well-known anti-gay funds. Some people do not like the idea of their money going to these funds.

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

Urgh

The Bioware community is just so liberal it makes me want to punch a glass window

don't do that, you will hurt your hand. Just try not getting so upset over little things, like people politely asking for a non-offensive transgender character in a game.

whatever sure, put the character in

just don't make it a big deal and doing it for the sake of being "edgy" and "promoting muh equality"

no one will take you seriously Bioware

[ParkBom]

Blackrising wrote...

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

I relate this to the whole Abecrombie and Fitch scandal, how much their sales went down after the CEO didn't want to make clothes for plus-sized girls. (Funny thing, after their stock went down by like 33%, they decided to start stocking up for larger girls) But yeah, I stopped shopping there after that whole thing. Found a whole bunch of better and cheaper stores through it so not all is bad. But yeah, my point is that you should support a company who you can be proud to support, not just for their products but what they stand for. 

[addiction21]

slimgrin wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...


The people who make the game.

And that would be who? Clearly you know every person in the video game industry. So please give a straight answer.

Who should video games be made for?

It shouldn't made made for a specific demographic, but a creative goal instead. Radical thinking in these parts.

Except that is not what is going on. That is what you are implying is happening so you can feel okay to belittle those who ask to be represented.

Its not even like the lead writer came in here to state that is what their goal is for creativity first.

And it seems to only be radical thinking when it is a minority asking to be represented. Not asking that the entire creative staff tailor makes the entire game to suit them.

[Petedj06]

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

[Ryzaki]

Lazengan wrote...
It's not even about games anymore

these people do not actually care about games. They want to tell their sob stories. It's clear that they lack the direction and creativity to write books, and perhaps lack the funding for a video project. Thus they infest the next best medium: video games. 

It's like how music 100 years ago was actual melodic composition. Now it's a way for liberals to ****** in your face (actual music composition in these works nonwithstading and terrible). 

Related: 

I care about games.

I also care about not feeling insulted or belittled when I play my games.

I play games to have fun. I have lots of fun when I can play someone like me who's not a joke, not a side character, someone who's taken seriously in the universe and respected.

I don't need an afterschool special in every game but hell yeah in some games I want to feel like the damn hero. (And thankfully BW games allow me to do this). I want to roll a female character and know Yeah she's a badass yeah she's the protagonist, yeah she saves helpless damsels/men in distress and looks damn good while doing it while not being a piece of animated sex meat or someone who can be seen but never heard. Yeah I like my proatagonist being able to argue with male characters and not worry about her being put in her place or being turned "evil" because how dare she speak her mind. Yeah I like her being able to express her affection without being called a skank or **** and yeah I like her being able to lift a ridculously sized broadsword and cut people's heads off with it while wearing massive armor and kicking ass and this is seen as perfectly okay and anyone who tries to say something smart can get verbally or physically slapped down.

Oh my god. Did you seriously just insult all music based off pop music (which the most popular music has almost always been "terrible" to a certain group of people). I'm pretty sure if I time traveled to the 1850s I could get some people saying the exact same thing.

[DeinonSlayer]

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I liked the book. Never was all that interested in the guy's politics, but I'll defend his right to believe (and write) what he wants.

Whatever Bioware wants to write is ultimately up to them, and I support their right to write what they want. I just don't want to see media go in a direction where writers feel compelled to include characters x, x, and x out of fear - that's on us, the consumers, to tolerate what they choose not to include as much as what they choose to.

[ParkBom]

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

Wasn't GTAV the most sold game of the year? And then add in the CoD games, Last of Us, Bioshock, etc. Unless you're completely trolling, you have to know that these AAA games have good gameplay.

Good for her. I don't know who she is and honestly, her voice is not the only one for female gamers. In fact, most female gamers I know would disagree with that. So yeah, don't judge a whole group based on a single person.

[Ryzaki]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

I relate this to the whole Abecrombie and Fitch scandal, how much their sales went down after the CEO didn't want to make clothes for plus-sized girls. (Funny thing, after their stock went down by like 33%, they decided to start stocking up for larger girls) But yeah, I stopped shopping there after that whole thing. Found a whole bunch of better and cheaper stores through it so not all is bad. But yeah, my point is that you should support a company who you can be proud to support, not just for their products but what they stand for. 

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

[CynicalShep]

Ryzaki wrote...

...Except to make Alistair something other than a straight male endings wouldn't have to change. (Anora and Cailan's gender might need to be swapped to make the marriage ending work if Alistair was turned female) But no Alistair being a bisexual male wouldn't change anything about him and Anora getitng married seeing as it was only for politics anyway and Alistair shows little to no attraction to her. 

But what's the point?

Ryzaki wrote...

Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king.

I'm sorry but WHAT?

Where on earth...

What does him being straight have anything to do with him being king?

I have never seen a king + king pairing. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm saying it's not out there or at least not that I know of. Him being straight enabled him to marry Anora. It's not that difficult a concept. Or you can have him rule alone. Or he can have a bunch of lovers on the side. A king/queen pairing is something classic. Being progressive is all fine and dandy but this is just getting ridiculous.

Modifié par CynicalShep, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:51 .

[Lazengan]

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

[Blackrising]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

That's a true shame. It shouldn't be that way, at all. A business is a business. Moral or ethical beliefs, unless the company is actually breaking laws, shouldn't enter into the conversation at all.

It's part of why Bioware's present course is causing me to lose respect for them. Public company=no moral or political stance. It should, anyway.


As for the topic, probably.

I actually have no real opinion on that particular development either way. It's the way we're headed and there's naught anyone can do to stop it.
That said, moral and ethical beliefs haven't just suddenly appeared. Companies always had them (unless they used to consist of mindless drones), the only difference now is that the consumer can see and respond to them.