677 réponses à ce sujet

[Petedj06]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I liked the book. Never was all that interested in the guy's politics, but I'll defend his right to believe (and write) what he wants.

Whatever Bioware wants to write is ultimately up to them, and I support their right to write what they want. I just don't want to see media go in a direction where writers feel compelled to include characters x, x, and x out of fear - that's on us, the consumers, to tolerate what they choose not to include as much as what they choose to.

and I darn well would not want you to promote ANYTHING that you did not like as a consumer. That is your right, and to some extent, your duty as a member of the economy.

[ParkBom]

Ryzaki wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

I relate this to the whole Abecrombie and Fitch scandal, how much their sales went down after the CEO didn't want to make clothes for plus-sized girls. (Funny thing, after their stock went down by like 33%, they decided to start stocking up for larger girls) But yeah, I stopped shopping there after that whole thing. Found a whole bunch of better and cheaper stores through it so not all is bad. But yeah, my point is that you should support a company who you can be proud to support, not just for their products but what they stand for. 

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

Mmm hmm. It has nice hoodies but extremely overpriced. The nearly-naked guys and girls on the walls and bags look quite nice but honestly, when I'm walking around with my clothes in a bag, I don't want to feel like I just came out of an adults-only store.

[Lazengan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Lazengan wrote...
It's not even about games anymore

these people do not actually care about games. They want to tell their sob stories. It's clear that they lack the direction and creativity to write books, and perhaps lack the funding for a video project. Thus they infest the next best medium: video games. 

It's like how music 100 years ago was actual melodic composition. Now it's a way for liberals to ****** in your face (actual music composition in these works nonwithstading and terrible). 

Related: 

I care about games.

I also care about not feeling insulted or belittled when I play my games.

I play games to have fun. I have lots of fun when I can play someone like me who's not a joke, not a side character, someone who's taken seriously in the universe and respected.

I don't need an afterschool special in every game but hell yeah in some games I want to feel like the damn hero. (And thankfully BW games allow me to do this). I want to roll a female character and know Yeah she's a badass yeah she's the protagonist, yeah she saves helpless damsels/men in distress and looks damn good while doing it while not being a piece of animated sex meat or someone who can be seen but never heard. Yeah I like my proatagonist being able to argue with male characters and not worry about her being put in her place or being turned "evil" because how dare she speak her mind. Yeah I like her being able to express her affection without being called a skank or **** and yeah I like her being able to lift a ridculously sized broadsword and cut people's heads off with it while wearing massive armor and kicking ass and this is seen as perfectly okay and anyone who tries to say something smart can get verbally or physically slapped down.

Oh my god. Did you seriously just insult all music based off pop music (which the most popular music has almost always been "terrible" to a certain group of people). I'm pretty sure if I time traveled to the 1850s I could get some people saying the exact same thing.

It seems that you want a self insert choose your own adventure story and interactive movie

where is the part where we talk about games?

[Ryzaki]

CynicalShep wrote...

But what's the point?

For Alistair to be a female? (Plus the gender reverseal on "Get rid of him he's barren." would've been nice instead of the typical "oh the woman can't give me babies" thing).

I have never seen a king + king pairing. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm saying it's not out there or at least not that I know of. Him being straight enabled him to marry Anora. It's not that difficult a concept. Or you can have him rule alone. Or he can have a bunch of lovers on the side. A king/queen pairing is something classic. Being progressive is all fine and dandy but this is just getting ridiculous.

Him being king has squat to do with him marrying Anora.

Him being straight has squat to do with him marrying Anora. You seriously think a gay or bisexual Alistair couldn't have entered a marriage with Anora? Or that gay/bisexual royalty never got married to the opposite sex? 

King/queen pairing has nothing to do with their sexuality.

No one was suggesting he marry a male HN if Alistair had been a bi LI male HN would've gotten the same mistress/lover on the side ending every female that wasn't HN got.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:55 .

[Jorji Costava]

Ryzaki wrote...

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

Mike Jeffries, CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch.

[Blackrising]

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

[ParkBom]

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Okay, now I def know you're trolling. Lol, you had us fooled for a second so kudos on that.

[Plaintiff]

CynicalShep wrote...
But then you are changing the lore. I don't mind it, but isn't this the "pandering" that everyone is talking about? It's adding something for the sake of it, unless you re-write the plot to make it relevant.

And how would you even know, if the game had always been that way?

Or do you just assume that every non-majority character was created to "pander" to somebody?

I don't believe that "pandering" is a thing that most creators even do. I think most creators are thoughtless and lack awareness of how their work will be perceived by others. Then, when people claim to be insulted, creators, instead of trying to fix the problem, jam their fingers in their ears while screaming "I DIDN'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYBODY SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED"

Alistair could be a parrot for all I care. He is a heterosexual male in the game though, so I don't see why that should change.

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm saying that his gender and sexuality aren't that important to the game.

You don't actually know that he's heterosexual anyway. He expresses an attraction to women, but that doesn't rule out any other possibilities.

Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king. You don't see me asking that Zevran be made heterosexual, now do you?

How very magnanimous of you.

You realise these two situations aren't the same, right? Making Alistair bisexual would take nothing from you, while making Zevran heterosexual would take away the only gay male romance option, sending a clear message that gay men aren't welcome.

[Ryzaki]

Lazengan wrote...

It seems that you want a self insert choose your own adventure story and interactive movie

where is the part where we talk about games?

*laughs so hard she can't breathe*

What do you think games are if they're not adventure stories and interactive fantasies? (I'm talking about BW games with this specific sentence since we're on BioBoards).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:57 .

[Petedj06]

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I play for story and gameplay. But I'm by no means "hardcore." I just want to enjoy myself while playing games. That's it. I like stories, and I like challenges. Games can be great for a number of reasons. BioWare (for the most part) tells stories that I love. That is what I go to them for. That is what I want from them. 

[The Hierophant]

Ryzaki wrote...

 anyone who tries to say something smart can get verbally or physically slapped down.

[ParkBom]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

Meh.

I got offered a job at both Hollister and Ruehl, and I'm half-black and certainly not attractive (though I wouldn't say I'm ugly either). So the actions don't really follow the words of top-level execs.

The company's products are what's made for beautiful people, though. I don't really think he cares about what his employees do or look like, except maybe his models. (I heard he sometimes takes models to his private residence and does photoshoots there. Like seriously, this dude is nasty.)

[Lazengan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Okay, now I def know you're trolling. Lol, you had us fooled for a second so kudos on that.

ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

[Ryzaki]

Blackrising wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

OMG I just read this.

I can't believe I got trolled so hard.

I guess all that PVP I did in SWTOR was...for reasonz and I absolutely had no desire to win.

osbornep wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

*snip*
Mike Jeffries, CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch.

Yeah good lord he needs some plastic surgery before he says crap like that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 04:58 .

[CynicalShep]

daveliam wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

But then you are changing the lore. I don't mind it, but isn't this the "pandering" that everyone is talking about? It's adding something for the sake of it, unless you re-write the plot to make it relevant. 

Alistair could be a parrot for all I care. He is a heterosexual male in the game though, so I don't see why that should change. Since he is a heterosexual male with royal blood - it makes sense to make him a king. You don't see me asking that Zevran be made heterosexual, now do you?

I think their point was more about the initial creation of Alistair, Anora, and the lore.  They were pointing out that there was no reason that Alistair had to be straight to begin with.  I don't think people, at least in this conversation, are advocating for changing anything.  The topic of the thread (let's remember this before it gets closed down.....again) is about creating transgender NPCs, not changing existing NPCs to transgender characters. 

Also, remember that revealing that a character that we know already is actually transgender or bisexual or gay or lesbian isn't changing them unless it directly conflicts with what we already know about them. 

And I'm saying that there is a reason. You want a classic king/queen pairing (medieval fantasy game and all that jazz) - you need two straight characters. Swapping them doesn't change anything - it's still a classic king and queen scenario. 
And more often than not "revealing' a character's gender (or whatever you want to call it) is going to be problematic, unless it was thought out from the very beginning. I most definitely did not expect Kaidan to hit on me in ME3, and while I can't say I was fazed by it, it was just awkward (doesn't he tell you a sob story about a girl he loved in ME?).

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Isn't that the store with the guy who said they only make stuff for beautiful people (and the CEO is fugly as hell?) 

Meh.

I got offered a job at both Hollister and Ruehl, and I'm half-black and certainly not attractive (though I wouldn't say I'm ugly either). So the actions don't really follow the words of top-level execs.

True but the fact that he came out of his face and said something as baffling stupid as that (despite I assume owning a mirror) kind of makes me go "REALLY? "

@The Hierophant : *whip cracks*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:01 .

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Blackrising wrote...

Same reason people stopped buying Barilla products and Jelly Beans. I'm not gonna fund those kinds of people in any way, shape or form.

(Not to mention that I would never be able to enjoy 'Ender's Game' knowing that the author is a homophobe. I would keep wanting to shove the book down his throat.)

The distance between creator of a product and consumer has all but vanished these days thanks to the internet, so what the creator does and thinks often ends up mattering just as much as the product itself, sometimes even more so. That's the way it is, I guess.

That's a true shame. It shouldn't be that way, at all. A business is a business. Moral or ethical beliefs, unless the company is actually breaking laws, shouldn't enter into the conversation at all.

It's part of why Bioware's present course is causing me to lose respect for them. Public company=no moral or political stance. It should, anyway.


As for the topic, probably.

People shouldn't be able to find out if they're accidentally funding their own oppression?

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I got the offers from shopping there.

And I've heard much, much worse about American Apparel and Dov Charney. THAT dude is "nasty."

Well, most people think they're attractive. CEO, I'd imagine he's got plenty of pride. So it's not completely surprising.

Is the AA the pedo dude? 

Still he could've at least gotten *some* work done. I mean that's just too deluded for me.

[ParkBom]

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Okay, now I def know you're trolling. Lol, you had us fooled for a second so kudos on that.

ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

I am not so sure that you should be using the word delusion on anyone but yourself.

I say you are trolling because more often than not, someone insulting an entire group of people, a lot of the times women, are trolling. You have no facts, statistics, or anything to back it up except your views about a single woman speaking to youtube.

And if you're so unhappy, leave these forums. It obviously ain't gonna change boo.

FYI: I've put nearly 700 hours into MP and have Best of the Best. So there goes your last point.

[MrMrPendragon]

Pretty sure arguing about who's right about what isn't going to make the developers put transgender characters even if they don't see the reason to.