677 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Plaintiff wrote...


I don't believe that "pandering" is a thing that most creators even do. I think most creators are thoughtless and lack awareness of how their work will be perceived by others. Then, when people claim to be insulted, creators, instead of trying to fix the problem, jam their fingers in their ears while screaming "I DIDN'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYBODY SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED"

You obviously haven't created anything if you think this is how artists/writers/creators think. How the audience receives their work is always on their mind. You just might not be their audience. The horror.

[Petedj06]

Okay, Imma try and get this back on track a bit more. I'm going to politely ask (in no way demand, threaten, or force) BioWare to consider the possibility of a transgender character. I think that if done well, it could be positive exposure for the transgender community, and help make Dragon Age a more fleshed out and realistic universe. I am not going to give any advice on how to do this, because they know there job, better than I at least, and I think they could be trusted with this issue.

OR.... put the gender belt in, I always loved the gender belt.

[Lazengan]

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Okay, now I def know you're trolling. Lol, you had us fooled for a second so kudos on that.

ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

I am not so sure that you should be using the word delusion on anyone but yourself.

I say you are trolling because more often than not, someone insulting an entire group of people, a lot of the times women, are trolling. You have no facts, statistics, or anything to back it up except your views about a single woman speaking to youtube.

And if you're so unhappy, leave these forums. It obviously ain't gonna change boo.

FYI: I've put nearly 700 hours into MP and have Best of the Best. So there goes your last point.

You claim that a single woman doesn't prove anything, and a single example out of a population isn't proof.

Then you bring up your own individual playtime of multiplayer as a point

Even if I showed you my information and statistics, you would use that same scrub arguement again. "It's only X examples of this, it doesn't mean they are ALL like that"

How long will this go on? It's only 9/10 that are like that, it doesn't mean they are ALL like that. Again reminding everyone of how Liberal Bioware forums are.

???

gg

[Enigmatick]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

People shouldn't be able to find out if they're accidentally funding their own oppression?

Miriam-Webster on oppression:

a :[/b]  unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power

Show me oppression, and then we'll talk.

Card was obviously going to use the money he planned on making from the film to build a WMD that eradicates homosexual desires from our planet.

Modifié par Enigmatick, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:07 .

[Fredward]

Lazengan wrote...
ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

Yeah. and? Different people value different things. You value gameplay, that doesn't give you any kind of legitimacy above and beyond somehow who likes the story, or the characters more. And just like you have the right to talk and criticize the gameplay those people have the right to talk and criticize about the things they value and find important.

I don't see the problem here.

[ParkBom]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Pretty sure arguing about who's right about what isn't going to make the developers put transgender characters even if they don't see the reason to.

Neither is going on rants about "liberal agenda" or talking about companies and stuff but eh, conversation is conversation. I doubt BSN's little wish threads will really have that much of an impact on DA:I anyways.

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

People shouldn't be able to find out if they're accidentally funding their own oppression?

Your existance funds your oppression. 

'Cause it's mostly self-induced or imiginary.

[Plaintiff]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

And how would you even know, if the game had always been that way?

Or do you just assume that every non-majority character was created to "pander" to somebody?

I don't believe that "pandering" is a thing that most creators even do. I think most creators are thoughtless and lack awareness of how their work will be perceived by others. Then, when people claim to be insulted, creators, instead of trying to fix the problem, jam their fingers in their ears while screaming "I DIDN'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYBODY SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED"

I'm confused. Are you saying that artists should go back and change their work if somebody gets offended? Or they should apologize if they offended someone?

Neither is required, but an apology would probably be appreciated.

If an artist offends someone they didn't mean to, and they don't want to offend that person in future, then they should pay attention to the criticisms and apply them to their future work. Going back and changing one piece means very little. What matters is showing that you learned from it.

[Lazengan]

Transgender character inserted into the next Bioware game

There is no reason to do so, and there is no reason NOT to do so

If it was put into the game for no reason at all other than PR and media attention, this is nothing more than a pathetic cashgrab that would infuriate both the transgender community and anti homosexual/trans individuals

[daveliam]

CynicalShep wrote...

And I'm saying that there is a reason. You want a classic king/queen pairing (medieval fantasy game and all that jazz) - you need two straight characters. Swapping them doesn't change anything - it's still a classic king and queen scenario. 
And more often than not "revealing' a character's gender (or whatever you want to call it) is going to be problematic, unless it was thought out from the very beginning. I most definitely did not expect Kaidan to hit on me in ME3, and while I can't say I was fazed by it, it was just awkward (doesn't he tell you a sob story about a girl he loved in ME?).

The argument is that there is no reason why it had to be the "classic king/queen pairing".  Yeah, it's a trope and a stock fall-back for the fantasy genre, but it's not necessary, per se.  There are alot of other classic fantasy tropes that they chose not to use, so they didn't need to use this one.  That's the point.  I don't think anyone has a problem with this kind of dynamic being represented in the game.  The problem is when that's the only dynamic of this type in the game. 

And, slightly off topic, Kaidan was revealed to be bisexual in ME 3.  Therefore, it's not out of character for him to have a girl that he loved in the past.  It's also not out of character for him to "reveal" that he's bisexual in ME 3.  That's the thing with bisexuality.  Much like transgenderism, people make assumptions and then have to deal with their dissonance after the reality has been revealed.  Kaidan was always bisexual, but you assumed he was straight because he couldn't romance MaleShep in ME 1.  It's the same thing if they revealed that a character that we already knew from the DA universe was actually transgendered.  You might have assumed they weren't, but they actually were all the time.  You are assuming that there's been a change, but there hasn't actually been one.  At least for the character.

[ParkBom]

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

JusticarFlareon wrote...

Lol, women and transexuals are totally opposed to gameplay in general. Yes, because aaaah, text! God forbid we have any text! That is worthless and stupid and boring!

Anyways, I honestly can't tell if trolling or if serious. I think 2014 will have a AAA title for you, though. You'd like the next Call of Duty.

EDIT: And if people having different views then you affects you so strongly, perhaps you would be happier off these forums, somewhere you can voice your opinion and have everyone bow down and agree with you.

sorry I hate Call of Duty, I play battlefield though

most  AAA "games" today are QTEs and interactive films  

Aneetsa Sarkeesean says that current video games do not appeal to women and are too hard (not the proper word, but something among the lines of this and "not relatable") for them. 

A lot of games are not relatable to women. Most games are just hulking male space marines shooting things in the face, or tough as nails male soldiers.... shooting things in the face, or male knights.... hitting things in the face. Now that I think about it, there is a lot of hitting things in the face. 

Those have nothing to do with the actual gameplay. You are clearly not looking at video games for gameplay but the graphics/visuals/story

See this is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that is poisoning the industry

Women can't relate to gameplay because women lack competitive drive. Sure they will play MMOs but to talk and chat with people. Real gamers play competitive multiplayer games for the drive and challenge to win. 

Okay, now I def know you're trolling. Lol, you had us fooled for a second so kudos on that.

ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

I am not so sure that you should be using the word delusion on anyone but yourself.

I say you are trolling because more often than not, someone insulting an entire group of people, a lot of the times women, are trolling. You have no facts, statistics, or anything to back it up except your views about a single woman speaking to youtube.

And if you're so unhappy, leave these forums. It obviously ain't gonna change boo.

FYI: I've put nearly 700 hours into MP and have Best of the Best. So there goes your last point.

You claim that a single woman doesn't prove anything, and a single example out of a population isn't proof.

Then you bring up your own individual playtime of multiplayer as a point

Even if I showed you my information and statistics, you would use that same scrub arguement again. "It's only X examples of this, it doesn't mean they are ALL like that"

How long will this go on? It's only 9/10 that are like that, it doesn't mean they are ALL like that. Again reminding everyone of how Liberal Bioware forums are.

???

gg

Yeah, I did. A single woman and her views does not paint the entire population of women on this planet or women gamers.

And you want more people? Go to the MP forums, lol. They're still active. OBVIOUSLY, people on BSN like the MP because the MP forums have their own community which is still going on. We've had celebs, game days with devs, etc. 

And show them to me, then. Perhaps you would actually sway people with your arguments if you used facts instead of rambling on and rants.

It will go on however long it will. I think there's a reason more people are against your radical views than supporting them. Hell, more people thought you were trolling for how outlandish you are, with no facts to justify anything of what you say. But yeah, just blame your own failing argument on the rest of the BSN being liberal, whatever. 

GG

[Beliar86]

David Gaider wrote...


All I'm suggesting is that not understanding why someone might want characters that resemble themselves present in our world or how their lack affects them is a circumstance you can't avoid by virtue of who you are.

*snipped to the part I'm replying to*

There's always putting yourself in the game as the main character.  Then you're represented no matter what.  Was easier with silent protaganist I must confess.  Automatically read it in your own voice with the tone you want.  Still doable with voiced but the second a choice is forced that you as Shepherd/Hawke just wouldn't do or say, the immersion gets broken.  This is where all the complaints about auto dialogue come in from.  Mass Effect 3 took those of us who do that from playing me as commander shepherd to just commander sheperd's story.

[Volus Warlord]

Enigmatick wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

People shouldn't be able to find out if they're accidentally funding their own oppression?

Miriam-Webster on oppression:

a :[/b]  unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power

Show me oppression, and then we'll talk.

Card was obviously going to use the money he planned on making from the film to build a WMD that eradicates homosexual desires from our planet.

He is just going to pick up what's left of the Gay Bomb project and reverse its effect through the magic of oppression.

[Petedj06]

Lazengan wrote...

Transgender character inserted into the next Bioware game

There is no reason to do so, and there is no reason NOT to do so

If it was put into the game for no reason at all other than PR and media attention, this is nothing more than a pathetic cashgrab that would infuriate both the transgender community and anti homosexual/trans individuals

OR.... it could be a genuine attempt to reach out to the LBGT gamers. The fact that it would set off a storm of angry media is sad to me. No one should be offended by the existance of a character in a game. However, BioWare is not new to the whole LBGT poo-storm that comes from the media. Fox had a hard time with ME1 when it came out, until they admitted that they haven't played the game....

[Plaintiff]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

People shouldn't be able to find out if they're accidentally funding their own oppression?

Miriam-Webster on oppression:

a :[/b]  unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power

Show me oppression, and then we'll talk.

Lobbying against civil rights isn't unjust or cruel? Funding political parties that will take rights away from minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

Spreading propoganda against minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

Excluding minorities from your product isn't unjust or cruel?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:14 .

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...

He's the guy who did this interview and masturbated in front of the (female) interviewer, and also did...something sexual, in front of her.

I'm trying to find the actual site of the interviewer, but I haven't yet.

Ah, here we go.

...there's not enough wut in the world.

Why'd you link me that. I just skimmed it and I think parts of my brain are permanently down.

Ah nothing I Love more than owning some player in KOTOR and while they're calling me f*g** informing them I have ovaries.

I can just see the poor frat boys head exploding.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:16 .

[Lazengan]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lazengan wrote...
ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

Yeah. and? Different people value different things. You value gameplay, that doesn't give you any kind of legitimacy above and beyond somehow who likes the story, or the characters more. And just like you have the right to talk and criticize the gameplay those people have the right to talk and criticize about the things they value and find important.

I don't see the problem here.

The problem is that you criticize the product for reasons completely different from the point of it.

Games are about gameplay. I will criticize a game for it's gameplay, not story or visuals. Granted that in today's day and age, the modern definition of a game has been warped by the industry's demand for aspects that aren't actually gameplay. 

I have the same categorization for music. I listen to "pure" music and evaluate the content based on its musical composition. Today, "music" is a medium for lyrics, and people evaluate music as poetry and not actually care or understand the composition. 

I'm not sure if you ever had an activity you enjoyed, then have it invaded by foreign elements and the entire outlook of the activity being warped by people who really do not understand the concept. 

Get your stories out of my video games, or at the very least don't relate them together. 

[Lazengan]

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Transgender character inserted into the next Bioware game

There is no reason to do so, and there is no reason NOT to do so

If it was put into the game for no reason at all other than PR and media attention, this is nothing more than a pathetic cashgrab that would infuriate both the transgender community and anti homosexual/trans individuals

OR.... it could be a genuine attempt to reach out to the LBGT gamers. The fact that it would set off a storm of angry media is sad to me. No one should be offended by the existance of a character in a game. However, BioWare is not new to the whole LBGT poo-storm that comes from the media. Fox had a hard time with ME1 when it came out, until they admitted that they haven't played the game....

I don't understand why we need to do this in a video game

If people seriously want to "reach" to them, make a film documentary with actual transgendered people that directly addresses the issue. Not hide behind a game to "send a message" 

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lobbying against civil rights isn't unjust or cruel? Funding political parties that will take rights away from minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

Spreading propoganda against minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

Excluding minorities from your product isn't unjust or cruel?

 This is just funny now.

[wolfhowwl]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

And how would you even know, if the game had always been that way?

Or do you just assume that every non-majority character was created to "pander" to somebody?

I don't believe that "pandering" is a thing that most creators even do. I think most creators are thoughtless and lack awareness of how their work will be perceived by others. Then, when people claim to be insulted, creators, instead of trying to fix the problem, jam their fingers in their ears while screaming "I DIDN'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYBODY SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED"

I'm confused. Are you saying that artists should go back and change their work if somebody gets offended? Or they should apologize if they offended someone?

Neither is required, but an apology would probably be appreciated.

If an artist offends someone they didn't mean to, and they don't want to offend that person in future, then they should pay attention to the criticisms and apply them to their future work. Going back and changing one piece means very little. What matters is showing that you learned from it.

Should Bioware be apologizing for anything?

[Ryzaki]

Can we just call it not wanting to give people acting against your own self interest more money and power and call it a day?

The Unjust/cruel argument is pointless when the whole point is they simply didn't want to give money that'd be used to fund someone who held beliefs contrary to their own and would probably use said funds to spread this message further/get more influence to have this message overpower their own.

I for one do not purchase things by people who are anti-choice or by anti-choice groups. Why? My own self interest.

Nothing more nothing less.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:20 .