677 réponses à ce sujet

[MrMrPendragon]

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Petedj06]

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Transgender character inserted into the next Bioware game

There is no reason to do so, and there is no reason NOT to do so

If it was put into the game for no reason at all other than PR and media attention, this is nothing more than a pathetic cashgrab that would infuriate both the transgender community and anti homosexual/trans individuals

OR.... it could be a genuine attempt to reach out to the LBGT gamers. The fact that it would set off a storm of angry media is sad to me. No one should be offended by the existance of a character in a game. However, BioWare is not new to the whole LBGT poo-storm that comes from the media. Fox had a hard time with ME1 when it came out, until they admitted that they haven't played the game....

I don't understand why we need to do this in a video game

If people seriously want to "reach" to them, make a film documentary with actual transgendered people that directly addresses the issue. Not hide behind a game to "send a message" 

These documentaries already exist, and for me, the point would not be to "send a message." I don't want to be all like "TAKE THAT YOU HATERS HAHAHA!" I just think it would be nice, that's all. I won't be mad if they don't or if they never include a trans character. I would be happy if they did. 

Adding a character to "send a message" helps no one. Adding a character to appeal to a wider audience, and add some diversity and realism to a game world helps everyone.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Petedj06 wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Inequality exists, there is no reason for it, and no one should be happy or content with it. It is not outragious to ask for equality, it should not even be controversial. Equality is a good thing, not something to be feared.  

Ahh... Naive Idealism.

I remember believing that crap too.

Wait, what was crap? The part where I said inequaitly is bad, or the part where I said equality is good?

And because you cannot see, that is why you fail.

Think on it.

[Fredward]

Lazengan wrote...
The problem is that you criticize the product for reasons completely different from the point of it.

Games are about gameplay. I will criticize a game for it's gameplay, not story or visuals. Granted that in today's day and age, the modern definition of a game has been warped by the industry's demand for aspects that aren't actually gameplay. 

I have the same categorization for music. I listen to "pure" music and evaluate the content based on its musical composition. Today, "music" is a medium for lyrics, and people evaluate music as poetry and not actually care or understand the composition. 

I'm not sure if you ever had an activity you enjoyed, then have it invaded by foreign elements and the entire outlook of the activity being warped by people who really do not understand the concept. 

Get your stories out of my video games, or at the very least don't relate them together.

-looks at sig- Ah. I think I understand. You clearly see any kind of change or shift of priorities as threatening, or bad, or as a sign of degradation or pandering. Naturally only when it goes against what you want amirite? You hold no sovereignity over the concept of gaming, you don't get to define what it entails. Same with music. Yeah you can cling to the delusion that what you like is somehow more pure or worthy of consideration... but in the end that's just like your opinion man.

[Plaintiff]

The Mad Hanar wrote...
In today's world, people will get offended about anything.

Not really.

So I can understand why artists are hesistant to make apologies to everywhere they offend.

I didn't say every group had to be apologised to. Some don't deserve it. Sometimes an artist will make artwork that they know will offend a certain group, because they feel like that group's message needs to be opposed, and that they deseve to be offended.

With this being the case, I don't think there is such a thing as an artistic mistake.

I didn't say it was a mistake, I said creators are thoughtless.

They set out to make a certain audience happy or gain self satisfaction from self expression. If somebody gets offended, then, well, it was inevitable. 

But it's not inevitable, all it takes is a bare minimum of awareness about how your product will be received by groups besides your target audience.

But I did not say artists should try to avoid offending anybody at all.

[CynicalShep]

Ryzaki wrote...


For Alistair to be a female? (Plus the gender reverseal on "Get rid of him he's barren." would've been nice instead of the typical "oh the woman can't give me babies" thing). 

For you, maybe. I wouldn't care either way, honestly speaking. 

Ryzaki wrote...


Him being king has squat to do with him marrying Anora. 

Him being straight has squat to do with him marrying Anora. You seriously think a gay or bisexual Alistair couldn't have entered a marriage with Anora? Or that gay/bisexual royalty never got married to the opposite sex? 

King/queen pairing has nothing to do with their sexuality. 

But teh royal babies? Even if they hate each other they'll need a few of those. 
On a personal note, cheating and lovers are a pet peeve of mine. My posts might have been more personal than intended. I do not like or understand the concept of two people marrying each other and having harems on the side. Doesn't click in my head.

Ryzaki wrote...


No one was suggesting he marry a male HN if Alistair had been a bi LI male HN would've gotten the same mistress/lover on the side ending every female that wasn't HN got. 

What is HN?

Plaintiff wrote...

And how would you even know, if the game had always been that way?

Or do you just assume that every non-majority character was created to "pander" to somebody?

I don't believe that "pandering" is a thing that most creators even do. I think most creators are thoughtless and lack awareness of how their work will be perceived by others. Then, when people claim to be insulted, creators, instead of trying to fix the problem, jam their fingers in their ears while screaming "I DIDN'T INTEND TO OFFEND ANYBODY SO YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE OFFENDED"

And we'll agree to disagree on this one. I'm pragmatic, so where you see "why not" I see marketing and I doubt that most devs "lack awareness".

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm not trying to change anything, I'm saying that his gender and sexuality aren't that important to the game.

And I say that gender and sexuality aren't important to the game. In fact, that's the first thing that I posted here.

Plaintiff wrote...

You don't actually know that he's heterosexual anyway. He expresses an attraction to women, but that doesn't rule out any other possibilities.

Fair enough, but statistics say that he is more likely to be straight than bisexual.

Plaintiff wrote...

How very magnanimous of you.

You realise these two situations aren't the same, right? Making Alistair bisexual would take nothing from you, while making Zevran heterosexual would take away the only gay male romance option, sending a clear message that gay men aren't welcome.

Yes, I am quite charitable. 
And making Alistair bisexual takes away one straight person from the game. I won't mourn him but your statement is false. And yes, Zevran was probably a bad example but I believe you understood what I mean. 
Sexuality in games is very low on my list of priorities and my posts probably reflect that quite well.

Modifié par CynicalShep, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:23 .

[franciscoamell]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Because it isn't that hard to add a transgender character that is more than just a transgender character? 

[Plaintiff]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Can't we ship all the transgenders and other minorities to their own private island?

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Plaintiff wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Can't we ship all the transgenders and other minorities to their own private island?

Isn't that what SWTOR did? 

On topic - I see no issue with transgendered characters.

[DeinonSlayer]

Plaintiff wrote...

Funding political parties that will take rights away from minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

O RLY?

So says the political party which is now forcing me against my will to pay for other people's abortions.

But this is getting WAY off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

[Petedj06]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Why separate? Honestly, I want to know? Why not have it all at once? Why must the LBGT crowed have their own games. Why do streight people have to have there own games. I like BioWare games, I want to play them. I will play them, and I never shy away from more content in a game.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

'Tokenism' is just a convenient fallback for people and companies that don't want to bother with minority representation, but still want to deflect claims of bigotry. "Silly minorities, don't you see? By excluding you entirely, we're actually being totally progressive and accepting!"

What does 'tokenism' even look like? Who are the 'token' characters in Dragon Age? How can you tell?

>implying that minorities actually care about being included in Bioware games.

I'm a minority, and I care, so I can say outright, with absolute confidence, that some do.

Oh please, I'm twice the minroity you are, my people went through real hardship at the white males you hate so much, and I couldn't give two squirts about what race bioware decides to make their characters. As long as they're good characters, it shouldn't matter what they are, period.

Isn't that the lesson of most of these stories involving diversity and overcoming prejudice? That it doesn't matter what you look like or what you are on the outside, but what you can do and what you are like on the inside? Why isn't that the case when talking about the people who "should" be included? Why does the message suddenly become "it only matters what's on the outside, and that should come first and foremost."

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:27 .

[Ryzaki]

CynicalShep wrote...
For you, maybe. I wouldn't care either way, honestly speaking.

But teh royal babies? Even if they hate each other they'll need a few of those. On a personal note, cheating and lovers are a pet peeve of mine. My posts might have been more personal than intended. I do not like or understand the concept of two people marrying each other and having harems on the side. Doesn't click in my head.

Fair enough.

Did you miss the whole "Wardens rarely have children thing" and "If I can provide her one" bit? It is very difficult for a Warden to have a child after he/she's been tainted if not impossible. Plus you don't have to be straight to have babies. Alistair's probably gonna be shooting blanks (assuming he and Anora even sleep together that often). I don't see either of them pushing the issue.

Well in typical king/queen relationships it was quite common so I don't see how you get the "Typical king/queen" and not acknowledge mistress/lovers on the side.

What is HN?

Human Noble

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Can't we ship all the transgenders and other minorities to their own private island?

Sounds like a plan. I nominate the Falkland Islands.

[AresKeith]

CrustyBot wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Can't we ship all the transgenders and other minorities to their own private island?

Isn't that what SWTOR did? 

On topic - I see no issue with transgendered characters.

I don't think anybody does really

[ParkBom]

Are we really at the point that we're claiming more minority than the other? *sigh* Yeah, I'm signing out of this. Night babes.

[daveliam]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Oh please, I'm twice the minroity you are, my people went through real hardship at the white males you hate so much, and I couldn't give two squirts about what race bioware decides to make their characters. As long as they're good characters, it shouldn't matter what they are, period.

Great!  Debate over!  This guy doesn't care so we shouldn't either!

Thanks, citizen, for sharing our thoughts with me.  I don't know what I'd do without you.

[vortex216]

Most of these comments should be to the PBS Idea Channel on Youtube...

[Enigmatick]

Plaintiff wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Can't we ship all the transgenders and other minorities to their own private island?

If Bioware made an adventure game taking place on that island and allowed you to "romance" all of them you would buy it in a heartbeat.

Modifié par Enigmatick, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .

[Meatbaggins]

Lazengan wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Lazengan wrote...
ah yes the typical bioware forum delusion

"If someone says something I don't like to the extreme, he must be trolling! there is no other logical explanation!"

Sorry when we have discussions about video games on Bioware forums, no one actually talks about the gameplay. They are too obsessed that their self insert character in their interactive story does not have a certain characteristic that would make them feel more gratified. I really don't understand why you people just don't watch films or read books, the standard for storytelling in video games is quite poor.

You all hated Mass Effect 3 due to reasons of story, dialogue

No one actually realized how good the multiplayer gameplay was

Yeah. and? Different people value different things. You value gameplay, that doesn't give you any kind of legitimacy above and beyond somehow who likes the story, or the characters more. And just like you have the right to talk and criticize the gameplay those people have the right to talk and criticize about the things they value and find important.

I don't see the problem here.

The problem is that you criticize the product for reasons completely different from the point of it.

Games are about gameplay. I will criticize a game for it's gameplay, not story or visuals. Granted that in today's day and age, the modern definition of a game has been warped by the industry's demand for aspects that aren't actually gameplay. 

I have the same categorization for music. I listen to "pure" music and evaluate the content based on its musical composition. Today, "music" is a medium for lyrics, and people evaluate music as poetry and not actually care or understand the composition. 

I'm not sure if you ever had an activity you enjoyed, then have it invaded by foreign elements and the entire outlook of the activity being warped by people who really do not understand the concept. 

Get your stories out of my video games, or at the very least don't relate them together. 

Stories has always been a central part of RPGs, going all the way back to DnD. Storytelling isn't just related to role-playing, it's essential.

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...


Lol, sorry.

You should be I'm scarred I say! SCARRED!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .