677 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Oh lawd can we not have the twice over minority? Cause yeah I can play that card too and I definitely give a damn about what characters BW has it its games. (I for one want to be able to play a very dark skinned female protagonist in dragon age without her skin looking barf worthy for one damn thing).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:29 .

[Volus Warlord]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...there's not enough wut in the world.

Why'd you link me that. I just skimmed it and I think parts of my brain are permanently down.

Ah nothing I Love more than owning some player in KOTOR and while they're calling me f*g** informing them I have ovaries.

I can just see the poor frat boys head exploding.

Lol, sorry.

Edit: Hmm. I really thought you were male.

/head explodes

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Up and down and all around, the mods are no where to be found.

[MrMrPendragon]

franciscoamell wrote...

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Can't we just have a separate video game that's totally dedicated to transgenders and other minorities?

I don't get why we're fighting over the viability of a transgender NPC, who's role is probably not even going to be that beacon of "minority awareness" supporters are hoping for.

Because it isn't that hard to add a transgender character that is more than just a transgender character? 

Making a transgender character probably isn't that hard.

Saying why that character exists in that particular place, at that particular time, and why that person has that specific role given to her is fairly hard. Not to mention you have to establish why that person is transgender without making it seem like you're appeasing the minorities. Doing that will take building up a second identity that they can associate to that person so the character doesn't just stay as "transgender character #1"

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:33 .

[CS420]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Funding political parties that will take rights away from minorities isn't unjust or cruel?

O RLY?
So says the political party which is now forcing me against my will to pay for other people's abortions.
But this is getting WAY off-topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Way off topic, but that's still cheaper than if they forced you against your will to pay to help support the kids to would have had. Boom!

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...
(I for one want to be able to play a very dark skinned female protagonist in dragon age without her skin looking barf worthy for one damn thing).

I've always thought that was an issue regarding what game engine developers used

[DeinonSlayer]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh lawd can we not have the twice over minority? Cause yeah I can play that card too and I definitely give a damn about what characters BW has it its games. (I for one want to be able to play a very dark skinned female protagonist in dragon age without her skin looking barf worthy for one damn thing).

So long as my custom character's cheeks aren't inside-out with eyes snaking four inches in front of their face once I get out of the character creator and see them in full rotation, I'm happy.



@Preston, I'd rather everyone took responsibility for their own actions and life choices in the first place, rather than propping up their feet and expecting "society" to clean up the mess.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:34 .

[BouncyFrag]

never change bsn

[Fredward]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
Oh please, I'm twice the minroity you are, my people went through real hardship at the white males you hate so much, and I couldn't give two squirts about what race bioware decides to make their characters. As long as they're good characters, it shouldn't matter what they are, period.

Isn't that the lesson of most of these stories involving diversity and overcoming prejudice? That it doesn't matter what you look like or what you are on the outside, but what you can do and what you are like on the inside? Why isn't that the case when talking about the people who "should" be included? Why does the message suddenly become "it only matters what's on the outside, and that should come first and foremost."

I actually agree with this sentiment. It's just that games (and storytelling media in general) so rarely portray people whose outside deviate from the norm as worthy of a place in their world. The result being there are never any stories about disabled or transgender or whatever people because they're just so "weird," nevermind who they may be on the inside.

[Volus Warlord]

AresKeith wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
(I for one want to be able to play a very dark skinned female protagonist in dragon age without her skin looking barf worthy for one damn thing).

I've always thought that was an issue regarding what game engine developers used

It was actually deliberate oppression. You should be offended.

[Ryzaki]

EntropicAngel wrote...
Lol, just stay away from him and his ilk and you should be okay.

Stay very faaaaar away I shall.

Edit: Hmm. I really thought you were male.

EntropicAngel wrote...

Wanting to be able to play it, versus turning it into a social justice, issue, are two entirely different things.

Nah
I've gotten tired of shouting at the wall. I'm at the point where if the game doesn't let me play female (and it's not a game I REALLY really desire to play to overlook the lack of female proagonist) I just don't play.

I just don't waste my money or time anymore. I put it firmly in the "not for me" box and call it a day. (Which is why I'll never play the Witcher, any CoD that's not black ops, among many other games). All of those were firmly planted on the not for me category and I no longer GAF about them.

*shrugs*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[Lazengan]

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Petedj06 wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Transgender character inserted into the next Bioware game

There is no reason to do so, and there is no reason NOT to do so

If it was put into the game for no reason at all other than PR and media attention, this is nothing more than a pathetic cashgrab that would infuriate both the transgender community and anti homosexual/trans individuals

OR.... it could be a genuine attempt to reach out to the LBGT gamers. The fact that it would set off a storm of angry media is sad to me. No one should be offended by the existance of a character in a game. However, BioWare is not new to the whole LBGT poo-storm that comes from the media. Fox had a hard time with ME1 when it came out, until they admitted that they haven't played the game....

I don't understand why we need to do this in a video game

If people seriously want to "reach" to them, make a film documentary with actual transgendered people that directly addresses the issue. Not hide behind a game to "send a message" 

These documentaries already exist, and for me, the point would not be to "send a message." I don't want to be all like "TAKE THAT YOU HATERS HAHAHA!" I just think it would be nice, that's all. I won't be mad if they don't or if they never include a trans character. I would be happy if they did. 

Adding a character to "send a message" helps no one. Adding a character to appeal to a wider audience, and add some diversity and realism to a game world helps everyone.

Are people these days that childish and stupid that they need allusions and relatable characters in order to identify and realize an "issue"? 

The issue already presents itself in these documentaries. Putting it in a video game is just needlessly hammering. 

I honestly do not want to play a game to immerse myself in politics and social issues

Video games are increasingly becoming more and more interactive movies. 

Modifié par Lazengan, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[Plaintiff]

CynicalShep wrote...
And we'll agree to disagree on this one. I'm pragmatic, so where you see "why not" I see marketing and I doubt that most devs "lack awareness".

Since marketing relies almost entirely on stereotypes and manages to be offensive extremely often, someone, somewhere is definitely lacking awareness.

And I say that gender and sexuality aren't important to the game. In fact, that's the first thing that I posted here.

Then why does it matter if Alistair is straight?

Fair enough, but statistics say that he is more likely to be straight than bisexual.

What statistics? Someone conducted a survey of Thedas?

Yes, I am quite charitable. 
And making Alistair bisexual takes away one straight person from the game.

If they can access his content, then players haven't lost anything at all.

I won't mourn him but your statement is false. And yes, Zevran was probably a bad example but I believe you understood what I mean.

Well no, I really didn't, and I'm not sure I do now. Making Zevran straight means taking away content from the gay/bi audience. Making Alistair bisexual gives more content to the gay/bi audience, but doesn't take any content away from the straight audience. I'm not seeing the issue.

Sexuality in games is very low on my list of priorities and my posts probably reflect that quite well.

So why are you here?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:36 .

[Ryzaki]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
So long as my custom character's cheeks aren't inside-out with eyes snaking four inches in front of their face once I get out of the character creator and see them in full rotation, I'm happy.

UGH yeah we need

A. Brighter light in the CC (preferably you can change light background)

B. Full rotation of character

C. Full zoom in and zoom out

and god more options. (Like hair that doesn't suck. ME3's CC was flaming hot garbage I swear).

AresKeith wrote...
I've always thought that was an issue regarding what game engine developers used

I hope it is because I tried to make my typcial beautiful black lady warriors and it wasn't happening in the DA CC without me cringing and going "that's just...no." 

Which is a shame because I can make them in SWTOR just fine.

EntropicAngel wrote...
And that's fine. I can respect that. I have less respect for those who claim it's automatically sexism.

Fair enough.

Also I refuse to play any game that has scantily clad females without their male counterparts looking ridculous (one reason I love JRPGs. Fanservice galore but you know everyone looks like they'll die from a hit in the right place. Not just the females while the males are running around in massive plate  )

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Personally as a "pacific islander" as is the PC term for my people commonly used apparently, I always wonder why there isn't more CC options to cater to those with broader facial features, or skin colors that are less cut and dry when it comes to tones and such.

I also wonder why having rougher skin texture was something not included in the games, as I know I don't have what many would consider a smooth plasticy face, though I cannot speak for others.

Longer hair for male characters is also a big problem these games seem to not be able to wrap their heads around. Ones that don't look like they cling to the back fo the PC's neck as if gelled in place. I myself have very course hair that doesn't move much but it's still able to be styled without tons of hairgel, which is what most of the hair options in DA games look like.

And what about body shapes? Everyone needs to have the same body shape in these games, it's weird. What if I want to play a shorter then normal human? Or a fat guy? I'm fat, I can admit that, why can't I roleplay a fat mage?

I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:43 .

[CynicalShep]

daveliam wrote...

The argument is that there is no reason why it had to be the "classic king/queen pairing".  Yeah, it's a trope and a stock fall-back for the fantasy genre, but it's not necessary, per se.  There are alot of other classic fantasy tropes that they chose not to use, so they didn't need to use this one.  That's the point.  I don't think anyone has a problem with this kind of dynamic being represented in the game.  The problem is when that's the only dynamic of this type in the game. 

And, slightly off topic, Kaidan was revealed to be bisexual in ME 3.  Therefore, it's not out of character for him to have a girl that he loved in the past.  It's also not out of character for him to "reveal" that he's bisexual in ME 3.  That's the thing with bisexuality.  Much like transgenderism, people make assumptions and then have to deal with their dissonance after the reality has been revealed.  Kaidan was always bisexual, but you assumed he was straight because he couldn't romance MaleShep in ME 1.  It's the same thing if they revealed that a character that we already knew from the DA universe was actually transgendered.  You might have assumed they weren't, but they actually were all the time.  You are assuming that there's been a change, but there hasn't actually been one.  At least for the character.

And I never said this trope was absolutely necessary. I said it's very common, especially in fantasy games and I left it at that. They could even make it so that there are 2 kings, 2 queens, 2 whatever gender queers would be, etc as long as it's in the lore and it makes some sense in the context.

And the bisexual reveal seemed like a copout (to me, at least). It just felt awkward, because my buddy and comrade suddenly starts making moves on me after 2 games. I understand how it works, I just think that awkward situations like this can be avoided (and I don't mean having him wear a "I'm a bi <3" ribbon).

[daveliam]

CynicalShep wrote...

And the bisexual reveal seemed like a copout (to me, at least). It just felt awkward, because my buddy and comrade suddenly starts making moves on me after 2 games. I understand how it works, I just think that awkward situations like this can be avoided (and I don't mean having him wear a "I'm a bi <3" ribbon).

So how then?  I'm genuinely interested in how you think they could have gone about avoiding the "awkward situation".  Keep in mind that ME 1 already happened, so they can't change that fact.  What else could they have done but put in a dialogue option where he expresses that he is at least open to romance from a male PC?

[DeinonSlayer]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Personally as a "pacific islander" as is the PC term for my people commonly used apparently, I always wonder why there isn't more CC options to cater to those with broader facial features, or skin colors that are less cut and dry when it comes to tones and such.

I also wonder why having rougher skin texture was something not included in the games, as I know I don't have what many would consider a smooth plasticy face, though I cannot speak for others.

Longer hair for male characters is also a big problem these games seem to not be able to wrap their heads around. Ones that don't look like they cling to the back fo the PC's neck as if gelled in place. I myself have very course hair that doesn't move much but it's still able to be styled without tons of hairgel, which is what most of the hair options in DA games look like.

And what about body shapes? Everyone needs to have the same body shape in these games, it's weird. What if I want to play a shorter then normal human? Or a fat guy? I'm fat, I can admit that, why can't I roleplay a fat mage? 

I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

More variety along these lines (tall, short, musculature) would be awesome - no more rail-thin arms on women!I tried to make two of my Shepards with plains indians features, one male, one female. The face creator in New Vegas seems more versatile, but sliders affecting other sliders is a pain. Takes a long time to craft a good one (the defaults in NV are scary bad).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:48 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

*wants to grab popcorn* but...

[Plaintiff]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
Oh please, I'm twice the minroity you are, my people went through real hardship at the white males you hate so much, and I couldn't give two squirts about what race bioware decides to make their characters. As long as they're good characters, it shouldn't matter what they are, period.

Gosh, if only the degree to which you can be considered a minority had any bearing whatsoever on the validity of your opinion regarding minority issues.

If you want to disenfranchise others out of apathy, or for the fleeting friendship you'll get from bigots, then go ahead by all means. But don't try to tell me that nobody else cares just because you don't.

Isn't that the lesson of most of these stories involving diversity and overcoming prejudice? That it doesn't matter what you look like or what you are on the outside, but what you can do and what you are like on the inside? Why isn't that the case when talking about the people who "should" be included? Why does the message suddenly become "it only matters what's on the outside, and that should come first and foremost."

I'm not asking for stories about diversity or overcoming prejudice, I'm asking for media companies to practise what they preach in those stories by showing me diversity and lack of prejudice in stories that aren't nauseatingly saccharine, hollow after-school specials.

Funnily enough, many media companies are actually improving. I wish I could say the same of consumers.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[Fredward]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Not demands, requests. Demands imply some kind of punishment or ultimatum. And because it's wrong? Why is the "right" version of reality one that excludes minorities? How is that even reality? Nah man, what you get in games isn't the fair and unequivocal representation of the world as it is it's the exclusion of everyone who isn't society's default through either ignorance or purposeful exclusion.