677 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Personally as a "pacific islander" as is the PC term for my people commonly used apparently, I always wonder why there isn't more CC options to cater to those with broader facial features, or skin colors that are less cut and dry when it comes to tones and such.

I also wonder why having rougher skin texture was something not included in the games, as I know I don't have what many would consider a smooth plasticy face, though I cannot speak for others.

Longer hair for male characters is also a big problem these games seem to not be able to wrap their heads around. Ones that don't look like they cling to the back fo the PC's neck as if gelled in place. I myself have very course hair that doesn't move much but it's still able to be styled without tons of hairgel, which is what most of the hair options in DA games look like.

And what about body shapes? Everyone needs to have the same body shape in these games, it's weird. What if I want to play a shorter then normal human? Or a fat guy? I'm fat, I can admit that, why can't I roleplay a fat mage? 

I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

More variety along these lines (tall, short, musculature) would be awesome - no more rail-thin arms on women!I tried to make two of my Shepards with plains indians features, one male, one female. The face creator in New Vegas seems more versatile, but sliders affecting other sliders is a pain. Takes a long time to craft a good one (the defaults in NV are scary bad).

Wait!  This dialogue is for real and not sarcastic?  Haven't the two of you just spent the last hour talking about how it's pandering to represent a minority in a game without an explanation?  But now you want customization options that represent the minority that you identify with?  You're joking right?

[The Flying Grey Warden]

HA-HA! That's what you get for using inferior bag popcorn.

[Ryzaki]

Oh god new Vegas CC.

*shivers*

The fugly.

THE FUGLY.

I say with absolutely no shame I downloaded about 4 hair/clothing/eyecolor mods before I even TOUCHED the CC.

I knew better than to dive into that unprepared.(I didn't learn my lesson in Skyrim though. I paid for that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Not demands, requests. Demands imply some kind of punishment or ultimatum. And because it's wrong? Why is the "right" version of reality one that excludes minorities? How is that even reality? Nah man, what you get in games isn't the fair and unequivocal representation of the world as it is it's the exclusion of everyone who isn't society's default through either ignorance or purposeful exclusion.

I've seen more then one "Do this or I'll boycott your game" post on these forums, so I think demand is the appropriate word.

Also, when did I ascribe moral judgements to the different realities? I said it wasn't a reality that catered to my own, not that it was good or bad.

Looks like someone's getting a bit too projecty.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:52 .

[Plaintiff]

wolfhowwl wrote...
Should Bioware be apologizing for anything?

Does Bioware care that they hurt transsexual people by portraying members of their group exclusively as prostitutes?

If so, then yes.

If they don't care, then there's no saving them.

The Mad Hanar wrote...
You said that artists who offend somebody (of a group that you sympathize with) should apologize at the least and "learn from their mistakes." Based on that, I have to assume that you consider offending somebody a mistake, be it from a conscious decision or a thoughtless action.

No I said artists who offend somebody they sympathise with should apologise.

If they don't sympathise already, then they're beyond all hope and there's no point in doing anything at all.

We live in a world where you must censor yourself, lest someone get angry, repost your opinion somewhere and deal with the "outrage" of many.

Maybe you do. I don't censor my opinion, I just change it when I get proven wrong.

Just go to yahoo any day of the week to see this. Frankly, I feel that sending the message that one sets out to send is much more important then having to consider if every stroke or word is going to offend a certain group of people.

I don't. I think being a decent person is infinitely more important than being a decent writer.

[Lazengan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god new Vegas CC.

*shivers*

The fugly.

THE FUGLY.

I say with absolutely no shame I downloaded about 4 hair/clothing/eyecolor mods before I even TOUCHED the CC.

I knew better than to dive into that unprepared.

Yea New Vegas is such a bad game because I can't make cute Waifus

[AresKeith]

Lazengan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god new Vegas CC.

*shivers*

The fugly.

THE FUGLY.

I say with absolutely no shame I downloaded about 4 hair/clothing/eyecolor mods before I even TOUCHED the CC.

I knew better than to dive into that unprepared.

Yea New Vegas is such a bad game because I can't make cute Waifus

 It's like your not even trying anymore

[Ryzaki]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I've seen more then one "Do this or I'll boycott your game" post on these forums, so I think demand is the appropriate word.

Also, when did I ascribe moral judgements to the different realities? I said it wasn't a reality that catered to my own, not that it was good or bad.

Looks like someone's getting a bit too projecty.

Except by using that word you're brushing everyone who would like to see something like this with the same brush.

While it would be nice for me to see I wouldn't boycott the game over it. (I would boycott over hypocrisy though but that's not the case here).

[The Flying Grey Warden]

daveliam wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

Personally as a "pacific islander" as is the PC term for my people commonly used apparently, I always wonder why there isn't more CC options to cater to those with broader facial features, or skin colors that are less cut and dry when it comes to tones and such.

I also wonder why having rougher skin texture was something not included in the games, as I know I don't have what many would consider a smooth plasticy face, though I cannot speak for others.

Longer hair for male characters is also a big problem these games seem to not be able to wrap their heads around. Ones that don't look like they cling to the back fo the PC's neck as if gelled in place. I myself have very course hair that doesn't move much but it's still able to be styled without tons of hairgel, which is what most of the hair options in DA games look like.

And what about body shapes? Everyone needs to have the same body shape in these games, it's weird. What if I want to play a shorter then normal human? Or a fat guy? I'm fat, I can admit that, why can't I roleplay a fat mage? 

I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

More variety along these lines (tall, short, musculature) would be awesome - no more rail-thin arms on women!I tried to make two of my Shepards with plains indians features, one male, one female. The face creator in New Vegas seems more versatile, but sliders affecting other sliders is a pain. Takes a long time to craft a good one (the defaults in NV are scary bad).

Wait!  This dialogue is for real and not sarcastic?  Haven't the two of you just spent the last hour talking about how it's pandering to represent a minority in a game without an explanation?  But now you want customization options that represent the minority that you identify with?  You're joking right?

Two of us? Where's that? I said I accept it won't happen and moved on to other more important things.

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god new Vegas CC.

*shivers*

The fugly.

THE FUGLY.

I say with absolutely no shame I downloaded about 4 hair/clothing/eyecolor mods before I even TOUCHED the CC.

I knew better than to dive into that unprepared.

Yea New Vegas is such a bad game because I can't make cute Waifus

 It's like your not even trying anymore

He really isn't. I guess he really needs more food and he's too lazy to perform decent tricks for it.

But he did get me thinking about that scary anime waifu mod from Skyrim. My eyes burned so hard.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:56 .

[CynicalShep]

Plaintiff wrote...

Since marketing relies almost entirely on stereotypes and manages to be offensive extremely often, someone, somewhere is definitely lacking awareness.

Or just maximizing profits. You might think "but having more genders makes the game is appealing to more people!?!?" but that's not how it works. Most people don't buy games based on that. Case in point - GTA V. Is edgy = great success (read in Borat's voice).

Plaintiff wrote...

Then why does it matter if Alistair is straight?

Because it matters if we have transgendered NPCs. It matters because that's how the story is written. Had it been a different story - it wouldn't have mattered. 

Plaintiff wrote...

What statistics? Someone conducted a survey of Thedas?

No, you're right. The entire 2 games we were hearded through the straightest of the corners of Thedas. It was just a coincidence, 90% of the population is actually gay and they sustain the population by cloning.
Common sense, Plaintiff.

Plaintiff wrote...

If they can access his content, then players haven't lost anything at all.
Well no, I really didn't, and I'm not sure I do now. Making Zevran straight means taking away content from the gay/bi audience. Making Alistair bisexual gives more content to the gay/bi audience, but doesn't take any content away from the straight audience. I'm not seeing the issue.

We could make every single person in Thedas bisexual or, at the very least, every single companion. Both sides win and we can have our happy rainbow dance. Except some people won't like that. See my marketing post.

Plaintiff wrote...

So why are you here?

A few reasons. I'm bored and I enjoy conversations/debate. What about you?

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...

I've seen more then one "Do this or I'll boycott your game" post on these forums, so I think demand is the appropriate word.

Also, when did I ascribe moral judgements to the different realities? I said it wasn't a reality that catered to my own, not that it was good or bad.

Looks like someone's getting a bit too projecty.

Except by using that word you're brushing everyone who would like to see something like this with the same brush.

While it would be nice for me to see I wouldn't boycott the game over it. (I would boycott over hypocrisy though but that's not the case here).

But broad brushes are the common bread and butter of this site. I didn't want to make waves and rock the boat with that, so I joined in doing it.

What's the problem here?

[DeinonSlayer]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Not demands, requests. Demands imply some kind of punishment or ultimatum. And because it's wrong? Why is the "right" version of reality one that excludes minorities? How is that even reality? Nah man, what you get in games isn't the fair and unequivocal representation of the world as it is it's the exclusion of everyone who isn't society's default through either ignorance or purposeful exclusion.

Every negative review for Ender's Game that I read on the first page of RottenTomatoes couldn't help sniping at Card's political views. Every single one. He made no money off the movie after selling the rights to Lion's Gate. The boycotters and blacklisters were (financially) hurting just about everyone except their "target."

That's what I'm getting at. Requests are fine. Inclusion is absolutely fine. I just don't want to see a spread in society where writers are cowed, where person/subject/political stance X has to be included... that may not have come out as clearly as I'd hoped.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

So why are you here?

I just want to put this out here, I can't juggle so I came here to pass the time instead.

[Fredward]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I've seen more then one "Do this or I'll boycott your game" post on these forums, so I think demand is the appropriate word.

Also, when did I ascribe moral judgements to the different realities? I said it wasn't a reality that catered to my own, not that it was good or bad.

Looks like someone's getting a bit too projecty.

Ah. Then, if I may ask, why do you object to people asking for different/more representative realities? Or is it just that you don't think it'll ever happen so it may as well not be asked? Or does it just not matter to you?

[DeinonSlayer]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh god new Vegas CC.

*shivers*

The fugly.

THE FUGLY.

I say with absolutely no shame I downloaded about 4 hair/clothing/eyecolor mods before I even TOUCHED the CC.

I knew better than to dive into that unprepared.(I didn't learn my lesson in Skyrim though. I paid for that.

i42.tinypic.com/vdq2qo.jpg

Same here, after my attempt at creating Hispanic Female Courier numero uno.

The horror... the horror...

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2013 - 05:59 .

[daveliam]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

 He made no money off the movie after selling the rights to Lion's Gate. The boycotters and blacklisters were (financially) hurting just about everyone except their "target."

Urgh.  This is totally off topic, but I really want to point out that he had not actually received any money for the remaining films in the series because their being optioned was dependant on the success of the first film.  It wasn't a commercial success (not necessarily because of the boycott, but certainly that was part of it), so I've read on several sites that it is unlikely that any additional movies from the series will be made and......wait for it..... he won't get any more money.

[CynicalShep]

daveliam wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

And the bisexual reveal seemed like a copout (to me, at least). It just felt awkward, because my buddy and comrade suddenly starts making moves on me after 2 games. I understand how it works, I just think that awkward situations like this can be avoided (and I don't mean having him wear a "I'm a bi <3" ribbon).

So how then?  I'm genuinely interested in how you think they could have gone about avoiding the "awkward situation".  Keep in mind that ME 1 already happened, so they can't change that fact.  What else could they have done but put in a dialogue option where he expresses that he is at least open to romance from a male PC?

Ideally by establishing that earlier than the third installment of the trilogy. Alternatively, by adding a bisexual character in ME3. Or two. Or five. Imagine it would happen in real life. You have a comrade in arms, who is also your buddy. You are straight. You two chat about girls and all that jazz. Fastforward a few years and he tells you that he wouldn't mind getting in your pants. Do you not see how this is "awkward"?

[Plaintiff]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Not demands, requests. Demands imply some kind of punishment or ultimatum. And because it's wrong? Why is the "right" version of reality one that excludes minorities? How is that even reality? Nah man, what you get in games isn't the fair and unequivocal representation of the world as it is it's the exclusion of everyone who isn't society's default through either ignorance or purposeful exclusion.

Every negative review for Ender's Game that I read on the first page of RottenTomatoes couldn't help sniping at Card's political views. Every single one. He made no money off the movie after selling the rights to Lion's Gate. The boycotters and blacklisters were (financially) hurting just about everyone except their "target."

That's what I'm getting at. Requests are fine. Inclusion is absolutely fine. I just don't want to see a spread in society where writers are cowed, where person/subject/political stance X has to be included... that may not have come out as clearly as I'd hoped.

They're financially hurting Card by doing their best to ensure that nobody ever tries to adapt his work into film ever again.

How come it's okay for Card to publicly write about his anti-homosexual views (which he does do, even if not in his fiction), but people who hold opposing views aren't entitled to express theirs?

[Ryzaki]

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
But broad brushes are the common bread and butter of this site. I didn't want to make waves and rock the boat with that, so I joined in doing it.

What's the problem here?

Uh...huh.

It should be rather evident...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Same here, after my attempt at creating Hispanic Female Courier numero uno.

The horror... the horror...

Yeah I eventually made a ginger first out of boredom and because I wouldn't care how ugly he was.

Killing the Legion as a female though is just so good. ED-E giving you theme music just makes it SO MUCH BETTER. Rolling in there with Boone and ED-E and kicking Legion ass everywhere so much more epic than doing it as a male.

Even if it took forever to get my girl's face where I liked it. God that CC blows.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 06 décembre 2013 - 06:05 .

[Plaintiff]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I don't. I think being a decent person is infinitely more important than being a decent writer.

I honestly don't feel like worrying about offending people is an attribute of being a good person. People tend to get offended easily. If you worry about that, then you will be walking on eggshells all the time. I express my opinion all of the time, and even if people are offended by it I don't really care because I was being honest instead of lying. So what you call "beyond hope" when an author doesn't apologize I call a person who stands by his ideas. That's more respectable to me then bending to the will of others.

You don't seem to understand the nuance of my argument.

I would not apologise if I offended the Westboro Baptists, because I want them all to die in a fire.

I would apologize if my work inadvertantly offended a disenfranchised minority, because I would never deliberately do that.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I've seen more then one "Do this or I'll boycott your game" post on these forums, so I think demand is the appropriate word.

Also, when did I ascribe moral judgements to the different realities? I said it wasn't a reality that catered to my own, not that it was good or bad.

Looks like someone's getting a bit too projecty.

Ah. Then, if I may ask, why do you object to people asking for different/more representative realities? Or is it just that you don't think it'll ever happen so it may as well not be asked? Or does it just not matter to you?

I think it's frankly spam at this point to demand bioware add things into the games like this. They go to lots of LGBT sponsered or heavily focused events, and gaider himself has panels at these sections. He's stated what it is they're doing, and at this point in production they've probably more or less locked everything down, so it's not like they'd see these treads and change their course anyway. It's a meaningless effort of getting things into the game, and he's more then aware of the desire for "representation" that he'll more then likely try to work in characters representing these groups anyway.

Additionally, I disagree with a lot of the logic used in demand/request threads like this, often finding they approach the issues with kid gloves and lax standards for the quality of the characters in question, focusing on the superficial elements rather then the characters personality or how their desired traits these people are giving them would affect their daily life and personality, or outlook on the world. Deeper characterization discussions are something I have been flamed for trying to start, saying I endorsed discrimination in the real world because I felt someone with these combination of traits would face discrimination in the dragon age world, and that they should face it from NPC's given the medievil setting and all.

So call it vindictive, but such experiences have checkered my view on a lot of the people in support of these "demand/request threads" as being selfish. They desire a character who will face no hardship nor trials in their life, will fall in love with their player characters, and nobody will have any problems with it, or else be killed/called horrible people. Maybe there are some who are not like that, but given my experience has been more or less the same in a lot of these threads, I find that prospect more and more unlikely.

[The Flying Grey Warden]

Plaintiff wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The Flying Grey Warden wrote...
I wonder all of this, but I don't demand the game have to have these things in it, or else it's a bad game. Wonder why there are some who can't just do that adn accept this isn't going to be a game that caters to our version of reality?

Not demands, requests. Demands imply some kind of punishment or ultimatum. And because it's wrong? Why is the "right" version of reality one that excludes minorities? How is that even reality? Nah man, what you get in games isn't the fair and unequivocal representation of the world as it is it's the exclusion of everyone who isn't society's default through either ignorance or purposeful exclusion.

Every negative review for Ender's Game that I read on the first page of RottenTomatoes couldn't help sniping at Card's political views. Every single one. He made no money off the movie after selling the rights to Lion's Gate. The boycotters and blacklisters were (financially) hurting just about everyone except their "target."

That's what I'm getting at. Requests are fine. Inclusion is absolutely fine. I just don't want to see a spread in society where writers are cowed, where person/subject/political stance X has to be included... that may not have come out as clearly as I'd hoped.

They're financially hurting Card by doing their best to ensure that nobody ever tries to adapt his work into film ever again.

How come it's okay for Card to publicly write about his anti-homosexual views (which he does do, even if not in his fiction), but people who hold opposing views aren't entitled to express theirs?

Shouldn't you judge the fictional work on it's own merits instead of being a vindictive **** and trying to sabotauge what could be a legitimately good story or rendition for something the movies creators had nothing to do with.

What's wrong with your mind where you think this passive agressive crap against innocent people is okay, or worse, morally right?

And to answer your quesition, it's because card's expression of his beliefs hurt no one and damage no ones employment. Your "expression" of your beliefs by holding a blatant attempt at financial sabotague directly impact hundreds of peoples livelyhood and other peoples careers, over something they had no say or control over.

Modifié par The Flying Grey Warden, 06 décembre 2013 - 06:09 .