677 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

Lots of generalizing going on here. Speaking for myself, I thought I made it clear in my first post that I'd only like to see a trans character if done in a way I feel is right. Because I would.

I would also like to see PC blood mages be fully acknowledged as such by the gameworld, perfect continuity between sequels, and the removal of the dialogue wheel.

That's different from my realistic expectations. I certainly don't want any writer to create a character just because it's what I want to see. You can't prod artists that way if you want them to fully tap into their creativity. Not in my opinion, anyway. On the other hand, if a writer does have an idea for a trans character someday, I'd rather they be aware some people who appreciate that like me exist. And perhaps a bit of what I might not appreciate to hopefully avoid what I saw as past missteps.

Wanting something doesn't mean I need to see it included at all costs, or I pick up a pitchfork and start gathering a mob. I can't speak for anyone else, but there it is.

[Cainhurst Crow]

No way are they going to spoil anything on what's going to be in DAI

[Hellion Rex]

Seagloom wrote...

Lots of generalizing going on here. Speaking for myself, I thought I made it clear in my first post that I'd only like to see a trans character if done in a way I feel is right. Because I would.

I would also like to see PC blood mages be fully acknowledged as such by the gameworld, perfect continuity between sequels, and the removal of the dialogue wheel.

That's different from my realistic expectations. I certainly don't want any writer to create a character just because it's what I want to see. You can't prod artists that way if you want them to fully tap into their creativity. Not in my opinion, anyway. On the other hand, if a writer does have an idea for a trans character someday, I'd rather they be aware some people who appreciate that like me exist. And perhaps a bit of what I might not appreciate to hopefully avoid what I saw as past missteps.

Wanting something doesn't mean I need to see it included at all costs, or I pick up a pitchfork and start gathering a mob. I can't speak for anyone else, but there it is.

Bingo.

[Abraham_uk]

Silfren wrote...

Why is there probably prejudice against transgendered people in Thedas?  Does anything in the lore actually suggest there would be?  Because you can't just assume real world prejudice would automatically be in the game.  Especially not when you consider Bioware's handling of LGBT persons thus far.

I've dropped the remark.

Anyway. Just treat the Transgendered NPC's as people.
Write fleshed out characters.
Take the time to make them interesting as characters.
Avoid stereotypes.

That way one can prove to all the nay sayers that it can be done in an intelligent and sensitive manner.



Anyway. Some women find the lack of female representation to be as offensive as stereotypical representations. So I would argue that not having transgender people in the game because people might be offended, is in and of itself offensive.

[Silfren]

David Gaider wrote...

So relax. There's no harm in asking to see more transgender characters or any other kind of minority character. We're not going to put them into places where they don't fit, but it doesn't follow that there are no places at all where they will fit... because there very likely are. That's a conversation that we and more creators should have, and if it seems like having it is a very deliberate action that's because deliberateness is evidently required--or it's forgotten entirely. And the fact that's so easy to do is sad, as diversity makes characters and settings more interesting and not less.

I don't really understand the charge of it only being okay to put in LGBT characters where they fit. 

That raises the question...in what ways would they not fit? What's being said here, seriously? That it wouldn't be okay for a Meredith character to have been a transwoman?  That it wouldn't have been okay for Bethany to have been canonically hard-line gay?  It's a valid question, since sexuality and gender expression are independent character traits from a person's interests and personality and professions they may go into.  By saying that LGBT characters only belong where they "fit" are you not somehow saying that they are only appropriate for certain, specific roles?

That seems to venture close to saying that LGBT characters only make sense in brothels...

[Cainhurst Crow]

I feel like if you know you're not likd the people being called out, and nobody is calling ya out by name or anything like that, thst you should more or less know no one is talking or disagreeing with ya.

Just my personal opinion on things, nothing mesnt about it.

[karushna5]

Br3ad wrote...

I don't think that the template should be white, male, and super cool. I think the template should be, "I have an idea for a character. Let's see what happens," and most certainly not, "We need a transsexual character, let's just make one. For the fans." I don't think the people who agree with me are saying we need more white, straight, elitist dudes, especially considering that a lot of them don't even fit into this group themselves. We simply question why someone wants a character because of what they are not who they are. It's cool if you want that kind of thing, we just don't understand it. It seems insulting to me.

and I think Gaider is saying, why can't you make a character and all the delicate and complex ness that makes a character and then go...this character could also be Trans. Why can't you just have an idea for a character and also make them trans? He is expressly saying they would never make a character around being trans, because people who do identify that way are people and not defined by being Trans. You make a character, and I feel the idea that making them Trans somehow says they can't be full fledged characters is very hurtful.

And people want characters like themselves. All too many games just assume everyone is White, Straight, Cis, and Male. Whenever a character is made outside this(except White Women who at least get to be in these stories) people complain. They obviously have to be tokens and have obviously no reason to be there except for pandering.

But honestly, the pandering is to White Male Straight gamers, as when nearly every character fits that and they complain when even one character is not like that(or in the case of White Women when they have even a equal number) every character in almost ever game has   identified with the sex given at birth. And having one character who is Trans is pandering? That isn't even realistic much less fair. Why can only Whight, Straight, male gamers be a real character, and just making a character, while outside of that they are making a character for the fans and basing them on who they are instead of what? That is pandering. 

[David Gaider]

Br3ad wrote...
Yes, but I also do not appreciate be called things like: racist, sexist, elitist, and homophobic, simply from expressing this view point. You guys can make whatever character you want. However, no one requests good characters. They request a character of a certain trait and then quality second. I'm responding more to them than you. Why can't quality come first?

If you imply that making a character transgender (or gay, or what have you) makes them of low quality by definition, then you are not just "expressing a viewpoint". If you are suggesting that such a character has to jump through more hoops in order for you to consider their concept still interesting, even not knowing a single other thing about them, then what response do you expect?

Don't sit there and shrug and say "I was just saying a thing." Consider your words for a moment. Privilege doesn't mean you're racist, sexist, elitist and homophobic... it just means you're in a position where you don't have to consider how such things affect you because they don't. If you think that means the only response is "political correctness", like that's a box you're being restricted into, consider what you're trying to break out of.

People request things by trait all the time. "Qunari love interest." "More elves." "More dialogue." "Deathblows." And so forth. Isn't it assumed that they want those things done in an interesting manner as well? If, in this one case, it's assumed that unless the request is made with certain conditions attached that writers could only produce it in a soulless manner... then why?

Just think about it, that's all.

[Seagloom]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I feel like if you know you're not likd the people being called out, and nobody is calling ya out by name or anything like that, thst you should more or less know no one is talking or disagreeing with ya.

Just my personal opinion on things, nothing mesnt about it.

True. That actually crossed my mind.

I eventually decided to respond anyway in case there was any ambiguity earlier. I figured it was better to take that extra step than leaving it to chance. Plus I had to take out the trash and needed an excuse to stall for another minute. >.>

[Silfren]

Br3ad wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Might have something to do with the assumption on your part that by people asking for those characters to be included in the game, they're somehow also okay with those characters being badly written.  Why on earth would you think this is what people want?

Probably becasue they have said it. Every response to someone is not a response to every member of the group. Also when we've said, "As long as they are well written," we are of course greated with, "Why does it need to be well written? This is fantasy." 

Yeah, no.  I've seen a lot of those discussions and nobody has ever once said any such thing.  You'll excuse me if I think you're just conflating what someone actually wrote with your (mis)interpretation of their words. Especially considering that people who want LGBT persons included DON'T want them reduced to stereotypes and problematic tropes, I think that assertion is absurd. 

[David Gaider]

Silfren wrote...
I don't really understand the charge of it only being okay to put in LGBT characters where they fit. 

That raises the question...in what ways would they not fit? What's being said here, seriously? That it wouldn't be okay for a Meredith character to have been a transwoman?  That it wouldn't have been okay for Bethany to have been canonically hard-line gay?  It's a valid question, since sexuality and gender expression are independent character traits from a person's interests and personality and professions they may go into.  By saying that LGBT characters only belong where they "fit" are you not somehow saying that they are only appropriate for certain, specific roles?

That seems to venture close to saying that LGBT characters only make sense in brothels...

Please don't put words into my mouth. My point was not to suggest there are more places to where such an exploration wouldn't fit, but to suggest that the examination of where such an exploration might take place would still leave plenty of places where that would be just fine.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I feel like if you know you're not likd the people being called out, and nobody is calling ya out by name or anything like that, thst you should more or less know no one is talking or disagreeing with ya.

Just my personal opinion on things, nothing mesnt about it.

I didn't think your post was directed at me in the first place,and nowhere did I say I thought it was.  Are you suggesting that I should only address a post if I think it applies to myself?

[Cainhurst Crow]

{Redacted. Not worth it}

What I will say, in it's place though, is that no one is saying "a gay character is automatically worse". Not really, but it's a response to a overwhealming attitude prevelent in a lot of these demand threads pointed out by mister gaider. Now, I myself have partaken in such threads in a nice and healthy debate, and I have found that most in them really do just want a quota like character and nothing else, a perfect one at that. I asked simple questions in a lot of these threads, questions of how people in thedas would react tot hem or their lifestyles on a day to day, not the PC but the other NPC's of the world. Just suggesting the reaction they would meet might not be positiive was enough to get blasted with accusations of hate and predjudice, that somehow by wanting reactivity in the world and a chance to explore personality that wasn't entirely centered on being good to the player, that I was actively calling forth the forces of evil upon them.

I feel like myself, and many here, want a high quality character written in a realistic way, whose traits aren't just seperate and segregated parts, but part of a greater whole. No definding them by a single trait, and no isolating it to a small sectional area of story to be explored once and never brought up again. I am hoping that many will agree, that this would be preferably to the alternative, and that there are those who feel just doing it by quota and for appeasements sake do exist.

It is important so we can all stand together, look them down, and tell them to sit down and shut up while the adults talk about more complicated matters at hand. You folks who want those characters with traits in the story and understand the importance of quality, and you folks who see quality as paragon above all else and are weary of signs that shortcuts might be being made, must stand united againsts the spoiled and the rotten of these forums.

Or else we can all fall together.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:43 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Silfren wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I feel like if you know you're not likd the people being called out, and nobody is calling ya out by name or anything like that, thst you should more or less know no one is talking or disagreeing with ya.

Just my personal opinion on things, nothing mesnt about it.

I didn't think your post was directed at me in the first place,and nowhere did I say I thought it was.  Are you suggesting that I should only address a post if I think it applies to myself?

I didn't direct this post at anyone. I was stating a general opinion on the matter about all sides. The fact you feel it's directed to you is kinda weird tbh.

[Abraham_uk]

David Gaider wrote...

Please don't put words into my mouth. My point was not to suggest there are more places to where such an exploration wouldn't fit, but to suggest that the examination of where such an exploration might take place would still leave plenty of places where that would be just fine.

I guess you have to be deliberately vague about all characters in Dragon Age Inquisition because...

http://t3.gstatic.co...ijXOzVnMeM9OXSA

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:27 .

[Silfren]

David Gaider wrote...

Silfren wrote...
I don't really understand the charge of it only being okay to put in LGBT characters where they fit. 

That raises the question...in what ways would they not fit? What's being said here, seriously? That it wouldn't be okay for a Meredith character to have been a transwoman?  That it wouldn't have been okay for Bethany to have been canonically hard-line gay?  It's a valid question, since sexuality and gender expression are independent character traits from a person's interests and personality and professions they may go into.  By saying that LGBT characters only belong where they "fit" are you not somehow saying that they are only appropriate for certain, specific roles?

That seems to venture close to saying that LGBT characters only make sense in brothels...

Please don't put words into my mouth. My point was not to suggest there are more places to where such an exploration wouldn't fit, but to suggest that the examination of where such an exploration might take place would still leave plenty of places where that would be just fine.

I wasn't directing that at you as if you'd said it; rather I was addressing the idea you yourself brought up of people seeming to think that LGBT characters can only be allowed in if they properly fit.  Sorry for the confusion.

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:28 .

[Exaltation]

100+ posts and still no answer for a simple question...

1) Will there be transgender NPC/s in DA:I? - Yes/No.
2) If the answer above is "Yes",will they have any significant roles(example: companion/quest giver/enemy boss/etc.)? - Yes/No.

If answer can't be given just close my thread,thanks.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I feel like if you know you're not likd the people being called out, and nobody is calling ya out by name or anything like that, thst you should more or less know no one is talking or disagreeing with ya.

Just my personal opinion on things, nothing mesnt about it.

I didn't think your post was directed at me in the first place,and nowhere did I say I thought it was.  Are you suggesting that I should only address a post if I think it applies to myself?

I didn't direct this post at anyone. I was stating a general opinion on the matter about all sides. The fact you feel it's directed to you is kinda weird tbh.

Never mind.  I think I conflated your post with someone else's comment to me.  Sorry.  I haven't had any coffee yet--that's the excuse I'm going to use, anyway.

[Abraham_uk]

Silfren wrote...

I wasn't directing that at you as if you'd said it; rather I was addressing the idea you yourself brought up of people seeming to think that LGBT characters can only be allowed in if they properly fit.

David Gaider, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I recon there is going to be a Transgender character in Dragon Age Inquisition.
He can't say anything about said character because of spoilers.

Then agian I'm probably wrong.

[Cainhurst Crow]

My phone has a lot of typo issues. Forgive my bad spelling of the past posts in this thread.

[David Gaider]

Silfren wrote...
I wasn't directing that at you as if you'd said it; rather I was addressing the idea you yourself brought up of people seeming to think that LGBT characters can only be allowed in if they properly fit.  Sorry for the confusion.

Well, it's not going to always fit. With regards to LGBT characters specifically, their inclusion would need to be in the context of their sexuality being relevant--or how would you even know? Such relevancy can occasionally be engineered, and sometimes comes up as a matter of course, but not always--and there's only so often you'd want to try to force it in the context of a game that isn't actually about sexuality.

That's all I meant.

[Br3admax]

Silfren wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Might have something to do with the assumption on your part that by people asking for those characters to be included in the game, they're somehow also okay with those characters being badly written.  Why on earth would you think this is what people want?

Probably becasue they have said it. Every response to someone is not a response to every member of the group. Also when we've said, "As long as they are well written," we are of course greated with, "Why does it need to be well written? This is fantasy." 

Yeah, no.  I've seen a lot of those discussions and nobody has ever once said any such thing.  You'll excuse me if I think you're just conflating what someone actually wrote with your (mis)interpretation of their words. Especially considering that people who want LGBT persons included DON'T want them reduced to stereotypes and problematic tropes, I think that assertion is absurd. 

So because you haven't seen it, it's false? Right. I really like the "nobody once" in this statement too. Of course I must be in the wrong in saying that others have said it. No one has ever said it here ever. Completely ignoring the multiple threads seen here, including others that have asked for 50% sexuality one way or the other. 

[Ianamus]

I wouldn't mind seeing Maevaris in-game, as she seemed really interesting. I think it's been said before that we probably won't, though.

It's not something that I'd want to see just thrown in on a random background NPC or another brothel worker, but I don't think that is going to happen.

Modifié par EJ107, 05 décembre 2013 - 07:38 .