677 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

AutumnWitch wrote...

I know a few transgender people and they do NOT ever want a TG option as a PC. Their logic? They identify as male or female not transgender. The goal of many TG people (not all I admit) is that they simply want to be taken as their new gender and be like everyone else. The TG people I personally know are impossible to tell they were once another gender so they are like just anyone else walking down the street. So when they play a game where they want to identify with their PC they just choose their own gender.

There is this misconception that all TG people walk around and say things like "Hi, I'm George and I am a tragnsgender person." In reality they say, "Hi, I'm George."

In my case, I happen to be a lesbian but don't go around saying, "Hi! I'm Autumn and I'm a lesbian, nice to meet you!" Instead, I say, "Hi, I'm Autumn nice to meet you." My whole identity is not the fact that I am a lesbian, I'm "me" and my sexual preference is just a small part of a much bigger whole.

I can appreciate why some transgender people would not want a TG option as a PC, but I also know others who would, because not everyone DOES identify as either male or female.  But anyway, it's a mistake to imply that because some members of a group do or don't want something, that this should be taken as representative of the entire group.

[Silfren]

ArcherTactlenecks wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

a) It was out of character for anyone that's played Awakening.

I don't know about out of character. I've played Awakening.

For all we know Justice was a gay spirit and his ****** attributes passed on to Anders

Same here.  I played Awakening and I didn't see it as out of character at all; moreover, some people swear by all that's holy that he pinged their gaydar in Awakening...so  clearly it isn't a given that he was written as definitively straight for that expansion.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Silfren wrote...
1) Anders doesn't ram Karl being his lover down your throat if you're a male PC either. That's nothing but gross exaggeration though I'll refrain from making assumptions about why you would be so bothered by that scene as to make the exaggeration in the first place.

2) It was only out of character if you assume that what you know about a person from what they tell you once defines that character in totality for all time.

Perhaps, but it's much more prevalent. A character shouldn't magically flip a switch just because of a choice you make at the beginning of a game - but isn't that what people are normally complaining about?

That's a pretty slippery slope. By that logic, they can have someone show up and act vastly different in a later title, and shrug it off with "You didn't really know them". Just imagine if it happened with one of the DAO LIs.

At any rate, it's a sloppily written event in the first place, because after the death of his lover ('friend' if you're FemHawke) and a fight where you butchered a half-dozen templars in the middle of the local Chantry,  the last thing he should be worried about is that the guy who just rescued him might not want into his pants. It's not timed, granted, but it can happen five minutes after the whole thing goes down.

It's not just Anders, either. I've flogged DAO for letting you advance too much too fast. I don't believe a romance flag - much less a fifteen point rep hit - should be something you're hit with in the first player-initiated conversation after joining. It should take a while, but I guess some people are into instant gratfication.

[Maria Caliban]

Killdren88 wrote...

Oh I agree with you fully. Having more homosexual characters it a good thing in my book. But one needs to be realistic. Bioware can't represent every group. Should they have a few pansexuals, Asexuals, or even Polysexuals Characters as well?

The qunari seem asexual as default. If polysexual or pansexual were concepts that existed in Thedas, Isabela might identify as such.

LarryDavid wrote...

Silfren wrote...
It's a valid question, since sexuality and gender expression are independent character traits from a person's interests and personality and professions they may go into.

Given (a) the fact that humans are hormone driven, ( the biological mechanism that determines the sexual preferences and © the way the brain operates, the question is less valid than you think.

I'd say one's 'gender expression' tends to influence one's interests, personality, and profession heavily.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:05 .

[Silfren]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Silfren wrote...
1) Anders doesn't ram Karl being his lover down your throat if you're a male PC either. That's nothing but gross exaggeration though I'll refrain from making assumptions about why you would be so bothered by that scene as to make the exaggeration in the first place.

2) It was only out of character if you assume that what you know about a person from what they tell you once defines that character in totality for all time.

Perhaps, but it's much more prevalent. A character shouldn't magically flip a switch just because of a choice you make at the beginning of a game - but isn't that what people are normally complaining about?

That's a pretty slippery slope. By that logic, they can have someone show up and act vastly different in a later title, and shrug it off with "You didn't really know them". Just imagine if it happened with one of the DAO LIs.

At any rate, it's a sloppily written event in the first place, because after the death of his lover ('friend' if you're FemHawke) and a fight where you butchered a half-dozen templars in the middle of the local Chantry,  the last thing he should be worried about is that the guy who just rescued him might not want into his pants. It's not timed, granted, but it can happen five minutes after the whole thing goes down.

It's not just Anders, either. I've flogged DAO for letting you advance too much too fast. I don't believe a romance flag - much less a fifteen point rep hit - should be something you're hit with in the first player-initiated conversation after joining. It should take a while, but I guess some people are into instant gratfication.

FYI, per Gaider, Karl was Anders' lover in ALL playthroughs, male or female.  He just doesn't mention it to a F!Hawke.

[CynicalShep]

This thread is amusing in more than one way.
I'll be bold - as long as good storytelling and decent gameplay takes priority I could not care less about what gender/race/sexual orientation/religious or political beliefs all NPCs are. I would prefer it to be realistic but that is tricky to do in a fantasy world. As long as it doesn't break immersion I'm fine with whatever the next DA game throws at me. However, I find it interesting how selective "equality" and political correctness is. I've seen people ask for different genders, body types, nudity, you name it and that's fine by me. Just don't quote "quality", "equality" and "realism" because this was never what threads like this are about. People ask for features and I assure you that many care about their presence more than implementation and how they fit in the universe. That's why I find it both humorous and insulting that the "straight white male privilege" group is the only one deemed worthy of scrutiny. In fact, putting minorities on a untouchable moral high ground is precisely why most of these conversations get heated and things like sexual preference and race are still such an issue. That's the flip side of being a "tolerant" and "open-minded" individual - that people who support minorities are rarely treating both sides equally. For every action there's a reaction and for every person white knighting someone/something there will be one that opposes and/or despises it.

On another note, at least one in 5 people on this planet smoke tobacco. I don't remember any thread asking why there can't be at least a few NPCs smoking pipes, or something more fitting in a universe like DAs, never mind being able to walk around with a pipe when not in combat. Is it because smoking is "bad"? If so, I'd argue that so is drinking but that doesn't stop dwarves from doing their thing.

I'll stop here, before muh privilege gets the better of me.

[kinderschlager]

O.o

cynic is right, there IS no gandalf character who smokes a pipe. how did this slip through?

[Afro_Explosion]

Wow reading the entire thread was like walking into mordor, now I think we should ask an important question regarding trans people in dragon age: do they have sex changes, or do they have to crossdress and pray not to be discovered.

[Silfren]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Silfren wrote...
It's a valid question, since sexuality and gender expression are independent character traits from a person's interests and personality and professions they may go into.

I'd say one's 'gender expression' tends to influence one's interests, personality, and profession heavily.

But it doesn't have to, because gender identification is separate from those other things: i.e. there are no interests which carry inherent appeal toward one kind of gender and not others. Where it does, it needs to be recognized as a result of gender conditioning rather than gender essentialism, because gender is a social construct, not a biological one.

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:17 .

[Dave of Canada]

mx_keep13 wrote...

Wow reading the entire thread was like walking into mordor, now I think we should ask an important question regarding trans people in dragon age: do they have sex changes, or do they have to crossdress and pray not to be discovered.

I think they're just crossdressers, I doubt they have the medical knowledge for any gender modification considering studying of anatomy is outlawed.

Silfren wrote...

Where it does, it needs to be recognized as a result of gender conditioning rather than gender essentialism, because gender is a social construct, not a biological one.

Gender isn't a social construct, gender roles are.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:28 .

[Vulpe]

Dave of Canada wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Wow reading the entire thread was like walking into mordor, now I think we should ask an important question regarding trans people in dragon age: do they have sex changes, or do they have to crossdress and pray not to be discovered.

I think they're just crossdressers, I doubt they have the medical knowledge for any gender modification considering studying of anatomy is outlawed.

There is...a thing they could do. It was possible from ancient times in real life. Just the though makes my blood freeze.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:29 .

[Silfren]

Dave of Canada wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

Wow reading the entire thread was like walking into mordor, now I think we should ask an important question regarding trans people in dragon age: do they have sex changes, or do they have to crossdress and pray not to be discovered.

I think they're just crossdressers, I doubt they have the medical knowledge for any gender modification considering studying of anatomy is outlawed.

Silfren wrote...

Where it does, it needs to be recognized as a result of gender conditioning rather than gender essentialism, because gender is a social construct, not a biological one.

Gender isn't a social construct, gender roles are.

Yes, it is, actually.  Gender is not the same thing as sex.  It pertains to masculinity and femininity, and yes, those are social, not biological.

Modifié par Silfren, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:35 .

[MrMrPendragon]

Wow reading the entire thread was like walking into mordor, now I think we should ask an important question regarding trans people in dragon age: do they have sex changes, or do they have to crossdress and pray not to be discovered.

They drink estrogen potions.
Take 10ml once a day.

Modifié par ArcherTactlenecks, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:33 .

[zMataxa]

David Gaider wrote...

And if one's response is that, no, the very existence of such characters is "shoving them down your throat" no matter how much in the minority they still might be... well, that's too bad. This isn't an escapist fantasy for straight white folks to pretend they're the only people who exist--it's a fantasy for everyone to be part of, and it's not too much to ask for the game to acknowledge that fact occasionally. Acting like DA is "going too far" just by considering having a few or even one character that's a little different, as if that makes us some radical bastion of equality unable to do anything other than make characters which are soulless soap-boaxes-- I mean, come on. We can do better. I can do better. If doing better in this one small thing is so untenable, then I'd suggest moving onto one of the many other games out there which wouldn't bother.

Seeing as you have such a choice available to you. Which is a rather nice thing to have, isn't it?

______________

Sadly, don't have time to wade through all these posts, or join in.
I think this snippet is spot on and should be one of the main conclusions of this thread.
And this is one reason - among many - why Bioware is a gem. 

Modifié par zMataxa, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:42 .

[Mr.House]

Silfren wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Silfren wrote...
1) Anders doesn't ram Karl being his lover down your throat if you're a male PC either. That's nothing but gross exaggeration though I'll refrain from making assumptions about why you would be so bothered by that scene as to make the exaggeration in the first place.

2) It was only out of character if you assume that what you know about a person from what they tell you once defines that character in totality for all time.

Perhaps, but it's much more prevalent. A character shouldn't magically flip a switch just because of a choice you make at the beginning of a game - but isn't that what people are normally complaining about?

That's a pretty slippery slope. By that logic, they can have someone show up and act vastly different in a later title, and shrug it off with "You didn't really know them". Just imagine if it happened with one of the DAO LIs.

At any rate, it's a sloppily written event in the first place, because after the death of his lover ('friend' if you're FemHawke) and a fight where you butchered a half-dozen templars in the middle of the local Chantry,  the last thing he should be worried about is that the guy who just rescued him might not want into his pants. It's not timed, granted, but it can happen five minutes after the whole thing goes down.

It's not just Anders, either. I've flogged DAO for letting you advance too much too fast. I don't believe a romance flag - much less a fifteen point rep hit - should be something you're hit with in the first player-initiated conversation after joining. It should take a while, but I guess some people are into instant gratfication.

FYI, per Gaider, Karl was Anders' lover in ALL playthroughs, male or female.  He just doesn't mention it to a F!Hawke.

Which is sloppy writing.

[The Antagonist]

Sex and gender are used interchangeably IRL.

[Liyros]

CynicalShep wrote...

This thread is amusing in more than one way.
I'll be bold - as long as good storytelling and decent gameplay takes priority I could not care less about what gender/race/sexual orientation/religious or political beliefs all NPCs are. I would prefer it to be realistic but that is tricky to do in a fantasy world. As long as it doesn't break immersion I'm fine with whatever the next DA game throws at me. However, I find it interesting how selective "equality" and political correctness is. I've seen people ask for different genders, body types, nudity, you name it and that's fine by me. Just don't quote "quality", "equality" and "realism" because this was never what threads like this are about. People ask for features and I assure you that many care about their presence more than implementation and how they fit in the universe. That's why I find it both humorous and insulting that the "straight white male privilege" group is the only one deemed worthy of scrutiny. In fact, putting minorities on a untouchable moral high ground is precisely why most of these conversations get heated and things like sexual preference and race are still such an issue. That's the flip side of being a "tolerant" and "open-minded" individual - that people who support minorities are rarely treating both sides equally. For every action there's a reaction and for every person white knighting someone/something there will be one that opposes and/or despises it.

On another note, at least one in 5 people on this planet smoke tobacco. I don't remember any thread asking why there can't be at least a few NPCs smoking pipes, or something more fitting in a universe like DAs, never mind being able to walk around with a pipe when not in combat. Is it because smoking is "bad"? If so, I'd argue that so is drinking but that doesn't stop dwarves from doing their thing.

I'll stop here, before muh privilege gets the better of me.

Oh darling, how you give me such heart palpitations!

So you actually do realize you're privaleged! (even if you're being dismissive of it by not acknowledging all of the great political, economic, social, and heck! even cosmetic perks you get and instead focusing on the tiny expense of being called out on it.  Oh no, how inconvenient!)  I suggest you do some more reseach on that matter since your ignorance is still gushing.  

[Silfren]

codenamesource wrote...

Sex and gender are used interchangeably IRL.

Regardless, it is inaccurate to do so.  And plenty of people DO recognize this and make a distinction between the two.

[Vulpe]

DeadlyHaven wrote...

I am transgender (not male to female or female to male; there's other types of transgender) and the problem I have with there being a transgender character is this: if a character is a transgender woman, it shouldn't be pointed out that she's transgender. Because she is first and foremost, a woman.

It wouldn't ruin the game for me, nor would I complain, but this is simply my opinion.

As long as that character is not a LI, then it's ok. No offence intended, but some people might get upset if they find out after they romance a character that he/she is biologicaly a she/he ( remember that in Thedas they don't have all the things we have in real life so all they could do is dress so that they look like the opposite gender ). If that character is a LI, then I think that at least a slight hint would be necessary so that people won't be taken by surprise.

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 05 décembre 2013 - 10:08 .

[The Antagonist]

It's not inaccurate if most people do. That's how language works

[Eternal Phoenix]

What's people obsession with introducing transsexual characters into a medieval world? I know there's magic and all that but nothing that's mentioned in lore that has the power to change the biology of someone.

Wouldn't transgender NPC's be more fitting in a universe like Mass Effect? And seriously what's the point if they're just going to be thrown in as minor characters who have one line saying "oh BTW I'm transgender" hmm?

[franciscoamell]

Elton John is dead wrote...

What's people obsession with introducing transsexual characters into a medieval world? I know there's magic and all that but nothing that's mentioned in lore that has the power to change the biology of someone.

Wouldn't transgender NPC's be more fitting in a universe like Mass Effect? And seriously what's the point if they're just going to be thrown in as minor characters who have one line saying "oh BTW I'm transgender" hmm?

Even if you don't change phisically, you are transgender if you identify as the opposite gender from your biological. So transgender people can fit just fine. And it was never mentioned that you can't change your gender either.

A character that is nothing but transgender and does nothing but say so was not requested by anyone.