74 réponses à ce sujet

[Exaltation]

It's quite irritating me that only Rogues are capable of detecting/disarming traps and unlocking chests/doors,forcing gamers to have Rogue character or atleast 1 Rogue in the party,or else certain places and items will be out of reach,and you might step on a trap lol.

I think detect/disarm/unlock should be as skills available for all classes to spend talent points on,just Rogues will already have those skills unlocked,without need of talent points to activate.

Anyone else?

[MarchWaltz]

Nope. It's gameplay breakdown. Rogues can open locks and such, that is their class advantage.

I don't want to play some omni-class...that will get boring for future play-throughs.

Also, if it is that annoying just bring a rogue with you in the party.

I bring a mage because they can heal. I just deal with it. If you want to roll a full melee party then play on an easier difficulty...I wanted to do that in DA2 and I did. Warrior Hawke/Aveline/Isabella/Fenris.

SIMPLE

Modifié par MarchWaltz, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Ser Alicia]

I actually like the rogue companions in both games. Especially Zevran and Varric. I never saw a problem in bringing them everywhere with me to help with traps and locks. In fact, bringing them around was a plus for me. Hearing their snarky banter with my other companions made it all worthwhile.

Modifié par TheBioticAssassin, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:24 .

[Eurypterid]

Brodoteau wrote...

In b4 someone spells it "rouge"

AHHHH! My eyes!

I love Rogues, but I agree it's silly that other classes can't open locks are disarm traps (maybe in the case of locks with a chance of breaking it, forcing a bash scenario which has a chance of ruining breakables inside the container. In the case of traps, a higher chance of springing it when attempting the disarm). As someone in another thread noted, I'm a mage with the power to warp the very fabric of reality, but that lock? Nope, sorry, can't figure out how to get it open.

Rogues should have an advantage when it comes to locks/traps, but any class should have a chance to deal with them somehow.

[legbamel]

 What's not to love, the backstabbery?  The breaking and entering?  The flaming arrows?  Rogues are awesome!  

[wickedgoodreed]

If I recall correctly, every class is going to have it's own set of "exploration" skills. So now, instead of just needing one rogue, certain places will be out of reach unless you have one of everybody.


EDIT: Found link -  http://social.biowar.../index/17108452

Modifié par wickedgoodreed, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:51 .

[Exaltation]

Ye but maybe i don't like Varric/Isabela and i don't like being a Rogue?,maybe i don't want them to banter and getting into conversations..
Only 3 party members,i want to choose the companions i want to travel with,1 party slot will be "reserved" by default for Rogue for obvious reasons,so you can choose only 2 companions that you want to be with.

In a way it makes Rogues even more special than the Mages lol,Mages so powerful but can't open a chest by melting the lock with some fire spell? lol,and a Warrior can always bash a chest/door with a giant 2 handed sword,but the chest and doors made from something special that only Rogues can open duh,and traps made from special invisible materials that only Rogues can see.

Modifié par Exaltation, 05 décembre 2013 - 05:39 .

[K_Tabris]

Have to disagree with you on this one. Each class has a specialty with advantages and disadvantages to each. If each class is suddenly able to do everything, then what is the point of having classes and specializations in the first place?

If they do implement some type of class move for opening locks, it should come with a sacrifice e.g. bashing open a chest should result in a lower percentage of loot received, or doors should pass a strength check. I think mages have enough power without giving them Elder Scroll style abilities.

Rogues were awesome in in DA:O, and morphed into something weird in DA2. I want the awesomeness of the Origins Rogues back!

[Exaltation]

The problem is that there is no replacement for a Rogue,you can use Potions instead of having a Mage to heal you, you can use Runes to increase defense/armor instead of being a Warrior to use Shield.

But there is no way to unlock chests/doors or detect/disarm traps without a Rogue,if you're not a Rogue or don't have Rogue in the party then certain places you won't be able to access and you might miss some nice items that are locked in a chest.

It's like,no Rogue = no access to some content of the game lol.

Modifié par Exaltation, 05 décembre 2013 - 06:10 .

[WonderNubs23]

The first couple times on DA:O I played as a warrior and a mage, I thought the rogue character was useless, and I resented having to always designate a spot for a rogue. Then, just to get the achievement, I played through as a rogue. Seriously, it's my favorite character to play now. I love the speed, the stealth, and after combining certain perks and skills my rogue was easily stronger than my warrior.

Although, it would be nice to be able to pick locks as any class, as long as you have a pick or a spell.

[Spectre slayer]

I like playing as Rogues and don't really have a problem with them being the only ones who are able to pick locks, disarm traps etc since that's usually their role and i'm always using a pretty balanced party depending on my class and always have a rogue in my party.

Also in DAI it seems like they will restrict certain areas and things by class, need a gate smashed or a wall or a pillar bring a warrior, see a ledge with a broken bridge that needs to be fixed bring a mage, need a trap dissarmed or a lock picked bring a rogue, by doing this it open up different combinations and having one of each class will offer you the best chance to go to as many area's and get the best loot.

[Magdalena11]

I think the idea of breakable contents works. Let mages melt off locks and warriors break them open but run the risk of ruining what was in the chest. As for traps, give everyone a chance to detect/disarm. Maybe a percentage chance. That way characters who elect to give up the potential for awesome spells or hack and slash fighting can still have some advantage on locks and traps.

[Axdinosaurx]

It's no different than keeping a spot open for a mage or a tank. Needing differing abilities part of the squad gameplay.

[mousestalker]

Sorry, rogues are my fave class. It's a rare game that really gives them full reign to use their archetypical skills. Part of it is that I'm not really the smashy type of person in real life and I am definitely not magical, but I can be sneaky.

Modifié par mousestalker, 05 décembre 2013 - 08:31 .

[Beerfish]

I hate mages, only they can cast spells and that is unfair. I want a Mage, Warrior in armour dual wielding ogres who can unlock traps, shape shift, heal sing songs, back stabb and blow things up. I better also have diamond plate armour as well.

[XX-Pyro]

The problem with mages being able to open locks is that literally makes them jacks of all trades which I suppose makes sense lorewise but gameplay wise kind of unbalances the classes, for those who care about balance anyways.

[Jaulen]

Beerfish wrote...

I hate mages, only they can cast spells and that is unfair. I want a Mage, Warrior in armour dual wielding ogres who can unlock traps, shape shift, heal sing songs, back stabb and blow things up. I better also have diamond plate armour as well.

you must not have been to the arcane warrior threads then.....or have you?

'Cause that's what mage players want.



Oh...and OP......using a healing potion isn't the same as using a healing spell. One's an item. One's a skill. Now if you want to lobby for a 'lock disarming potion'...then that would be similar...and I'd be okay with.

Come on.....watch the mage fire spells.....they don't have enough control to melt a little lock without setting the whole chest aflame......

[Eurypterid]

Beerfish wrote...

I hate mages, only they can cast spells and that is unfair. I want a Mage, Warrior in armour dual wielding ogres who can unlock traps, shape shift, heal sing songs, back stabb and blow things up. I better also have diamond plate armour as well.

The hyperbole is misplaced in this case though, Beerfish. As I said in my previous post: how does it makes sense that no other class can open a locked container or door? I can see maybe making an argument that only Rogues get the ability to unlock traps but at the very least the other classes should have an option for bypassing locks, whether it be bashing, blasting with a spell, or a specific unlocking spell. It's just completely ludicrous that everyone but Rogues are stymied by a simple locked container.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I'm more annoyed that you have to manually switch to the rogue and open them every damned time, unlike BG/BG2/etc where you can set the AI to go do it automatically.

As far as class wise..eh. DAO rogues were just Warriors with some nifty advantages, and DA2 flat out went ninja for melee.

[TCBC_Freak]

I love how people miss the point, the OP isn't saying he hates rogues on principal, he's saying he hates being forced to have one in the party even if he doesn't want to. I had a thread about this a long time ago, a year or so. Here's a bit of summary, no one could argue against it then, doubt they can now.

--They should add in something like lock picks. It could be a usable item just like potions or grenades, they could give rogues a boost to open higher level locks then they might be able to at their level (like if they have a master lock and they are just below being able to open it) or let a non-rogue open a chest at or below their own cunning level as if they were rogues. There is already potions that make you stronger and I think there was one that gave rockarmor like the mage can cast. I am OCD and nothing bugs me like not being able to get into chests in the prolog or other times when your party is set or small and there is no rogue.

Rogue really is the only thing that is limiting. If you don’t want to bring a mage, then you have health potions, even a rock armor potion, there is a high level potion that lets you revive fallen party members too. Don’t bring a warrior? It doesn’t matter, rogues can off tank and so having a pair works even better than a single warrior and mages do more damage overall so two of those and you won’t even notice you have no warrior. Rogues are the only class where you get "punished" for not having one in your party at all times by not being able to open chest or disarm traps (I‘d like to say I have no problem not being able to disarm traps without a rogue, as that's not as big a deal, you aren't missing content). And they could make it so lock picks don’t drop, you have to buy them.

This idea tends to get lumped in with all the "I want this, I don't want that" topics. And it's unfortunate.

The more I think about this the more I'm convinced of the truth that this is something that can only help the game. The player is punished for not taking a rogue everywhere, and to an extent if you aren't playing a rogue it's even worse as there are locked chest in areas were it is impossible to have a rogue (for example, fleeing Lothering) or it is just you like at the end of the game, there is a locked chest before the final battle but your party is just standing around. For people who didn't like Varric or Isabela, they get hamstrung into having one of them with them at all times anyway removing the ability to spend time with people they did like, otherwise they miss out on something (or Sebastian if you have the DLC). Maybe it isn't a lot, but it's still making you miss out and this is the only thing like it. No mage, no problem, we have potions, no warrior, even less problem because they have very little about them that a double mage or rogue combo can't do better.

And thinking back, Varric's last armor upgrade is on the quest where you meet Nathaniel Howe, ignoring that you had to import a DA:O save to even have this quest, it was in a locked chest if I'm not mistaken. Players that didn't take a rogue with them missed it.

And it isn't true that you need "at least one of each class." Merrill and Fenris together are a better Tank than Aveline and can nuke anything in their path. If something goes after one the other can pull it and give the former enough time to heal up before switching off again. It takes skill and work but is possible.

No mage? You can heal with potions, and as far as nukes go, you have a warrior/rogue combo that can kill any thing fairly quickly. Dispelling magic is less important (not to say unimportant just less so) with high level armor that resists magic and a fast nuke combo like DPS warrior/Duelist rogue which can tear anything down in a few hits. And a PC warrior as a Templar is better at fighting mages than any of the party members.

I do admit that on Nightmare it is a bit more important to have specific archetypes but even then if you are skilled enough and take the time to perfect a party you can work around not having a class in any combat encounter.

But you can never open that door or chest without a rogue, no matter what. It's just silly, there is nothing so completely unique to any other class.

[Vulpe]

 I will only chose rouge for my characters. Nothing else but rouge.They can give us rouge as the only option in the character creator/customization - it's fine by me .The rest of the options don't interest me as long as I can chose rouge.




Warriors, mages, rogues - all of them will be dressed in rouge. 

Modifié par JulianWellpit, 05 décembre 2013 - 09:47 .

[Eurypterid]

JulianWellpit wrote...

 I will only chose rouge for my characters. Nothing else but rouge.They can give us rouge as the only option in the character creator/customization - it's fine by me .The rest of the options don't interest me as long as I can chose rouge.




Warriors, mages, rogues - all of them will be dressed in rouge. 

*head explodes*

[Beerfish]

Eurypterid wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

I hate mages, only they can cast spells and that is unfair. I want a Mage, Warrior in armour dual wielding ogres who can unlock traps, shape shift, heal sing songs, back stabb and blow things up. I better also have diamond plate armour as well.

The hyperbole is misplaced in this case though, Beerfish. As I said in my previous post: how does it makes sense that no other class can open a locked container or door? I can see maybe making an argument that only Rogues get the ability to unlock traps but at the very least the other classes should have an option for bypassing locks, whether it be bashing, blasting with a spell, or a specific unlocking spell. It's just completely ludicrous that everyone but Rogues are stymied by a simple locked container.

I have worked in an industry that deals with locks, keys, safes, all things locked and I will be happy to hand some lock picks over to a person and tell them to open a lock without a decent amount of training the in the field and watch them screw around for hours with no success.

None of this is ever about physical ability but about how a person takes up a craft and trains.  You want to be able to open all the locks you want?  sure go for it.  You are limited to only two trees of your mage spell book becasue you don;t have the time or resources to both open locks and study higher magic.

It's perfectly logical that only rogues get to open locks, the study and train to do so.  By chosing a rogue at teh beginning of the game you have chosen that life path.  by chosing a mage at the beginning of the game you have chosen that life path.  Want to open locks to get that elfroot?  Bring along a rogue.

Modifié par Beerfish, 05 décembre 2013 - 10:20 .

[Dave of Canada]

What's not to love about having an all-rogue team in DA2, juggling stealth bombs and the like to keep your team 100% invulnerable?