74 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that players should have flexibility in builds as well as party configurations, but this is not Bioware's philosophy. Personally I would leave the warriors at home and take all rogues and mages.

Plaintiff wrote...

Other classes can have lockpicking when Rogues get magic.

They did in DA2. A number of those archery skills were basically spells.

No, those archery skills were not basically spells. Not with only 2 aoe attacks.

[leaguer of one]

Angrywolves wrote...

Varric wasn't a very good rogue, there were chests he couldn't open in da2.
Rogues fighting abilities in DA2 weren't as dynamic as they has been in DAO.

1. That because you did not spec it right.

2. You're kidding. 

[iOnlySignIn]

I'm sorry, I can't feel your hate over the sound of me pulling my daggers out of your skull.

[Phoenix_Fyre]

Everytime I try to play a rouge, I remember Origins has Leliana, she's totally OP, and I never got a rouge warden off the ground

they're fun! Chests and traps mean exra exp which means more levels!

[esper]

I don't think lockpicking should be a rogue exclusive trait, it should be an out of combat skills that all classes can put points in. It don't make sense in da where rogues are not thieves, but a different kind of warrior and it is espically frustrating when you are starting out before gathering your party and there is the chest you never get to open because your class is not rogue. It is not like there was anything exclusive to non-rogues.

Since we are getting class specfics, I have hope we have this:
Rogue: sneak past enemies undetected.
Warriors: Bash down obstablecles.
Mages. Conjure up paths.

[BronzTrooper]

Rogue is my favorite class to play as because of Stealth and backstabs. Why wouldn't someone like rogues?

[Plaintiff]

Addai67 wrote...

I agree that players should have flexibility in builds as well as party configurations, but this is not Bioware's philosophy. Personally I would leave the warriors at home and take all rogues and mages.

Plaintiff wrote...

Other classes can have lockpicking when Rogues get magic.

They did in DA2. A number of those archery skills were basically spells.

All the skills for every class have been 'basically' spells since DA:O, then.

Why even bother having classes at all? Just let every character do everything, because apparently 'tactics' and 'strategy' means 'never having to make a difficult choice ever'.

[philippe willaume]

It really does not matter if mage can magic locks open and warrior can bash lock open or if each class has the ability. in fact it is the same for stealth or dual wielding or two handed weapons.
It has the same effect and it links to what Plaintif and Esper are alluding to. IE what is class differentiation and how does it works in game.

Basically if you think that rogue=thief then lock-picking and stealth, or at least stealth damage and attack bonus should be reserved to rogues.
but if you think the rogue=a light armoured nimble warrior then it does not make sense that lock-picking and stealth should be reserved for rogues only.

In the first case rogue can really be played like in the second case, as every situation needs to be set up to reap benefits. like the rogue in DA:0.
in the second case, rogues makes warriors looks bland and or inefficient, Unless like in SW:tor where you have a tanks and nimble path for the Sith warrior. Both paths were as varied and ended up having a different feel and kind of working differently.


Ultimately the problem is with the game design/play.
If the game play is based on straightforward combat with little or not tactical preparation, the rogue-thief will be difficult and may be not interesting to play and the rogue-light warrior will end up just a good if not better as warrior a but with stealth and mobility.


In a way it makes more sense to have a single class where you could pick up a given number skill set and talent tree at creation, so that you can play what you want or that you have a certain level of overlapping between rogue and warriors builds so that different approach are possible for a given build.
or may be the class differences should be more in how you play than talents selection IE for exemple having the cooldown of a rogues reduced when he is using attack based talents and the warrior has reduced cooldown when he/she is using defensive talents

[Addai]

Plaintiff wrote...

All the skills for every class have been 'basically' spells since DA:O, then.

Why even bother having classes at all? Just let every character do everything, because apparently 'tactics' and 'strategy' means 'never having to make a difficult choice ever'.

What rogue had a widespread AoE attack like the Awakening/ DA2 archer?

You still employ strategy. No one starts out being able to do everything, so you still have to decide how to allocate talents. The difference is you let players build the characters instead of shoving them into pre-made classes.

[Asdrubael Vect]

MAGE(and give them damn swords and heavy armor) AND WARRIOR MUST CAN OPEN CHESTS AND DOORS IN ALL DA GAMES!!!

this is the very stupid and unrealitic thing ever that they cant do this

this is the one of the things why i never play warrior in DAO(rogue and mage only), i play "rogue"-warrior in heavy armor with 2 swords,bow and who can open chests....warrior was pointless when i have rogue who was actually a warrior

in DA2 i play only mage with mod to open chests and doors or have Varric(and damn Tallis in Orlais)

in DAO i always kill(or simply do not recruit) Lelianna and Zevran, i never like and respect them so then i play not-rogue i was need to use mod for mage to open chests and doors

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 07 décembre 2013 - 08:11 .

[Xerxes52]

Angrywolves wrote...

Varric wasn't a very good rogue, there were chests he couldn't open in da2.
Rogues fighting abilities in DA2 weren't as dynamic as they has been in DAO.

In regard to the first point: That's due to a misallocation of attribute points. 40 points in Cunning is all you need to open the highest levels chests in the game.

[Jestina]

Diluting classes would be an awful thing, just like it was in ME3. If you want to open chests so badly, then play a rogue.

[Wulfram]

Addai67 wrote...

What rogue had a widespread AoE attack like the Awakening/ DA2 archer?

Scattershot.

edit:  Or did I misunderstand "widespread"?

Modifié par Wulfram, 07 décembre 2013 - 11:47 .

[Fyurian2]

Jestina wrote...

Diluting classes would be an awful thing, just like it was in ME3. If you want to open chests so badly, then play a rogue.

Explain how classes were diluted in ME3?
They were practically flayed to the bone in ME2, along with many other things that didn't need to be taken out in "streamlining", just trimmed and refined.

If anything, classes got a healthy booster shot in ME3 over ME2.

In all honesty though, I don't see why Warrior and Mage can't have their own variants of lockpicking.
Mages melt the lock, gradually getting better at it via cunning or a skill tree option that would allow them to do so without blowing up the chest/door they were"lockpicking".
Warriors could bash the lock, and progressing to the point where they only destroy the locking mechanism instead of the door/contents of a chest.
Don't give mages/warriors XP for success, leave that for requiring a rogue.

Nobody's suggesting (yet) that trap detection/disarming be done by all classes. Probably because they never presented much of a threat/challenge in either DA game, and were really just a cheap source of XP gain.
Then again, I've often felt that outside of D&D games, Magic users were the only ones that really deserved a class all of their own in a class-based RPG.
Then again, in truth DA so far has been "streamlined" D&D when it comes to gameplay and mechanics.

[DooomCookie]

That's what they do. That's why they exist. It's like getting annoyed at needing to have a mage to heal. Besides, why not have one? They make some of the best characters and 2hand dagger in DA:O dealt the best damage after mages and the best single target damage.

[Addai]

Wulfram wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

What rogue had a widespread AoE attack like the Awakening/ DA2 archer?

Scattershot.

edit:  Or did I misunderstand "widespread"?

Alright, but that was just a stun. The rain of arrows talent was just ridiculous.

[TeamLexana]

Angrywolves wrote...

Varric wasn't a very good rogue, there were chests he couldn't open in da2.
Rogues fighting abilities in DA2 weren't as dynamic as they has been in DAO.

Wow. You obvisously didn't spec him right. Rogues get Cunning - that's where their crit damage comes from and it also counts towards their ability to open chests/spot/and disarm traps.

Min Dex/Max Cunning and you're good to go with any DA Rogue ever. Well, up to DA2 and it's dlc's at least, who knows about DAI, lol.

[Magehand2278]

I never played as a rouge, truth be told I never liked them that much as a character, anyone can wield a sword but only the special are born with the gift of magic, the only game that got lock picking right for mages was oblivion where you had a spell for opening lock and different spells for different levels.

That makes sense to me... a high level mage, all the power of the universe but defeated by a lock...

[Magehand2278]

oh ps i generally let the game decide the specs for them fuss i never liked them as much detecting traps however, idk maybe warriors could do it but i must admit that is a bit far-fetch

[Killdren88]

Eh, I'm one who prefers rogues. It's not called a Role playing game for nothing. We all have our roles, and Rogues fill that Role, They get behind the enemy and harass them while Warriors and mages take the front. They are a stable in Fantasy Rpgs. Not this Elder scrolls nonsense where you can do it all that is boring.

[Fyurian2]

Killdren88 wrote...

Eh, I'm one who prefers rogues. It's not called a Role playing game for nothing. We all have our roles, and Rogues fill that Role, They get behind the enemy and harass them while Warriors and mages take the front. They are a stable in Fantasy Rpgs. Not this Elder scrolls nonsense where you can do it all that is boring.

They're called Role Playing games because you play a role (a character) in them. Rogue/Thief is a class within the role, not the role itself.

Pardon The Elder Scrolls, for they know not that as a non-party based and non-D&D RPG that they shouldn't be letting others than Rogue/Thief be able to lockpick.
Also, it's really only one of them that lets us do everything - Skyrim. Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion still had classes of all sorts where not everyone could reach the highest level of lockpicking.

Modifié par Fyurian2, 08 décembre 2013 - 07:27 .

[Airell]

Is everyone skyrim spoiled.... Not everyone but there is at least one or two post week  were someone is asking for  a dovahkin skill tree in dragon age

Modifié par Airell, 08 décembre 2013 - 08:21 .

[DarthLaxian]

MarchWaltz wrote...

Nope. It's gameplay breakdown. Rogues can open locks and such, that is their class advantage.

I don't want to play some omni-class...that will get boring for future play-throughs.

Also, if it is that annoying just bring a rogue with you in the party.

I bring a mage because they can heal. I just deal with it. If you want to roll a full melee party then play on an easier difficulty...I wanted to do that in DA2 and I did. Warrior Hawke/Aveline/Isabella/Fenris.

SIMPLE

and that would be great - and it does not break the lore either (I don't think Anders could have fled the Circle without lockpicking skills (and some skills in sneaking!) for example)

greetings LAX
ps: for me certain powers should not be class tied - from stealing, lockpicking and sneaking to things like speech (which luckily is not class tied, but i have seen games were it was/is) and crafting