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Shepard as "Boy Scout"

Débuté par Guest_StreetMagic_* , déc. 05 2013 09:15

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#26
JamesFaith
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 10:35

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StreetMagic wrote...

Superman is called a boy scout because he isn't Batman. I think Frank Miller really made it a point in the Dark Knight Returns. He called him that because he's a lackey and a dork. Not necessarily because he's a hero. It's not a good word.


Isn't possible that you simply have worse subjective connotation with this term then others? 

This is one of these terms where extent of insulting is more based on context and person then on word itself.

F.e. in Smallville is Superman nicknamed as Boy-Scout in one episode by Green Arrow and it was definitely just jabbing, not insult.

#27
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 10:40

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JamesFaith wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Superman is called a boy scout because he isn't Batman. I think Frank Miller really made it a point in the Dark Knight Returns. He called him that because he's a lackey and a dork. Not necessarily because he's a hero. It's not a good word.


Isn't possible that you simply have worse subjective connotation with this term then others? 

This is one of these terms where extent of insulting is more based on context and person then on word itself.

F.e. in Smallville is Superman nicknamed as Boy-Scout in one episode by Green Arrow and it was definitely just jabbing, not insult.


I don't know if there's an easy answer to that actually. I probably shouldn't waste your time explaining my view (I'd have to get into too much stuff, I think).

But yeah, maybe I'm seeing it worse than others. It was fine previously though, when you could say things in past games, and characters would respond differently depending on your choices. Like if you were Paragon with Jack, she'd call you a "p*ssy" or say "F*ck your feelings". Now it's on automatic. I'm defined certain ways by default - and to me, in the worst possible way.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 05 décembre 2013 - 10:41 .

#28
Rotward
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:15

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Deathsaurer wrote...

Jack said it in jest, Aria is Aria.

/Thread. Get over yourself OP, they called you that explicitly to get under your skin. 

#29
TheMyron
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:25

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Some of you people make me sad.

#30
ImaginaryMatter
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:31

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What about FemShep? Queen of the Girl Scouts?

#31
Han Shot First
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:40

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ImaginaryMatter wrote...

What about FemShep? Queen of the Girl Scouts?


I'm curious as well. What do Aria and Jack say with a FemShep playthrough?

#32
KaiserShep
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:42

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Jack calls femShep queen of the girl scouts. I don't recall any specific lines from Aria. It all seems to run together in standard alien mob queen fashion.

#33
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:45

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Rotward wrote...

Get over yourself OP


No thanks.

It's really something symptomatic of autodialogue in general. Even if I got over this, it's going to grate on me for other reasons. This whole game is full of weird instances in how Shepard auto responds or how people see Shepard. Even DA2, as much criticism as it got, did this stuff better. Characters would address you differently, depending on how you were locked in a blue/red/neutral habit of choice making. In ME2, they didn't quite have as intricate a system, but they tried to do this somewhat. Like even a minor NPC like Kelly knew if you were "bad" or "nice" without even saying anything to her previously. I appreciate when they make this effort.

Think of it this way: I can be positive about a lot of features in their games previously. Just not stuff like this. So try not to think of me as overly negative.

#34
KaiserShep
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:49

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I think for the most part, this kind of thing was handled fairly well. If anything, the one bit that always did kind of make me raise an eyebrow a little bit is if you pick the renegade dialogue with Javik in his first conversation, when he asks how far you're willing to go to stop the reapers. Fool don't know I'm gonna shoot that tube.

#35
sH0tgUn jUliA
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:50

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I thought the thing was Aria being Aria.

"Look Aria, I've killed so many people they didn't know what to do with me so they let me go. Get the f*** out of here."

There's something about that. You kill one person you get the death penalty. You kill 10 people, same thing. You do like Hitler and kill millions of your neighbors, everyone gets mad at you and you end up going on a honeymoon in a trench filled with burning gasoline. But Stalin, you kill millions of your own, nobody really cares and you die in your bed. Pol Pot, again millions of your own, no one knows what to do with you because they can't comprehend that number, so he died at 72 under house arrest.

Then there's Shepard who killed 300,000 Batarians. That's another one of those large numbers that no one can really comprehend, but hey, they were Batarians. So the Reapers are invading. Let's turn Shepard loose on them!

Aria? Jack? Don't make me laugh.

#36
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 05 décembre 2013 - 11:52

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KaiserShep wrote...

I think for the most part, this kind of thing was handled fairly well. If anything, the one bit that always did kind of make me raise an eyebrow a little bit is if you pick the renegade dialogue with Javik in his first conversation, when he asks how far you're willing to go to stop the reapers. Fool don't know I'm gonna shoot that tube.


That's one rare instance where the game does what I'm talking about. He checks your alignment. It's a cool little feature. If you don't have a dominant Renegade score, he'll say you're lying. Or at least, I think we're talking about the same thing?

#37
KaiserShep
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:02

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Yeah, that's the scene. Good to know it works based off of your renegade/paragon score. I could never bring my main Shep's renegade to outweigh paragon, but I guess I'll look on youtube to see what it looks like in that scene.

#38
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:04

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Wait.. damn..

Now I feel stupid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe Aria in fact does adjust on alignment. This is the first time I've heard her call me a "boy scout", but I am slightly Paragon this early in the game. I could've sworn now that she might just say something else on my other characters (Renegades). Instead of boy scout, I think she says "Bailey respects you."


/doh

#39
KaiserShep
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:10

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Yeah I've only ever gotten the "Bailey respects you" line. I generally max out my paragon bar but get just enough renegade to unlock all the general intimidate options, of course locked out of the ones that require a particularly high score.

#40
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:12

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KaiserShep wrote...

Yeah I've only ever gotten the "Bailey respects you" line. I generally max out my paragon bar but get just enough renegade to unlock all the general intimidate options, of course locked out of the ones that require a particularly high score.


/sigh

Sorry for making this thread. I really hate boy scouts, I guess. :whistle:

The Jack one is a bit different, since it can be a term of endearment. The way Aria says it though is with disdain. It's like "Wtf did I do now?"

Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 12:13 .

#41
Cainhurst Crow
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:14

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Aria doesn't like you. But tbh aria doesn't really like anyone.

She tolerates, and has varying degrees of tolerance.

#42
KaiserShep
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:18

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

Aria doesn't like you. But tbh aria doesn't really like anyone.

She tolerates, and has varying degrees of tolerance.


Aria obviously respects Shepard though, otherwise she wouldn't ask for Shepard's help to retake Omega, and may even spare Oleg if you lean on her with paragon. (It's one of those instances where I actually enjoy going full paragon, because it butts against her personality)

#43
Cainhurst Crow
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:19

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Like I said, she tolerates shepard, because he or she is useful to her.

#44
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 12:20

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I think she likes Renegade Shep. And likes Renegade Femshep even more (the kiss is different. heh).

#45
SwobyJ
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 01:05

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Respects and is attracted to Renegade Shepard. The big thing is that she sees you more akin to her. You embolden her to be even more of what she already was.

Tolerates and is curious about Paragon Shepard. The big thing is that she is preoccupied with figuring you out (how Shepard can do such brutal things by story-default, but still seek a better way and safety for others). Nyreen was a vehicle of expressing this concept but it existed in a smaller form since ME2.

Both assist her in getting more powerful, but Renegade is more true to her more innate psychological nature.


And yeah she's bi (like most asari? does it even matter?), but clearly likes females (well, humans and turians at least) more.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 06 décembre 2013 - 01:06 .

#46
ImaginaryMatter
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 01:13

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SwobyJ wrote...

Respects and is attracted to Renegade Shepard. The big thing is that she sees you more akin to her. You embolden her to be even more of what she already was.

Tolerates and is curious about Paragon Shepard. The big thing is that she is preoccupied with figuring you out (how Shepard can do such brutal things by story-default, but still seek a better way and safety for others). Nyreen was a vehicle of expressing this concept but it existed in a smaller form since ME2.

Both assist her in getting more powerful, but Renegade is more true to her more innate psychological nature.


And yeah she's bi (like most asari? does it even matter?), but clearly likes females (well, humans and turians at least) more.


I laughed at the Aria Renegade kiss after playing through with both Bro and Fem Sheps. My favorite Omega run through though is playing as bi-polar Shepard, then Aria doesn't know what to think.

#47
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 01:13

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I actually deleted my playthrough and started over, just to doublecheck if she responds differently on a Renegade. lol. Sucks to be on Xbox. I think PCs have mods for this?

The context it's in makes it more lame.. because it's when you meet Aria at the Citadel, and she's loathes just being there and dealing with all of the bureaucratic crap. She tells you to talk to Bailey, "from one boy scout to another. Chain of command and all that". It's not that I care about Aria specifically. It's that Bioware has put Shepard in this position. He's now an icon of all of the lame status quo sh!t characters like Aria wouldn't want around. I don't like the Citadel either. And if I recall, neither does Bailey, for that matter. Wtf. He works with people like Elias Kelham, beats prisoners, and doesn't like paperwork. He's no different than Harkin.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 06 décembre 2013 - 01:19 .

#48
DeinonSlayer
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 02:30

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Seems this is only really applicable to Shepards who let the top of the wheel think for them. Do "burn-down-the-orphanage" renegades get the "king of the boy scouts" moniker too? I know my canon was about 60-40 paragade at the end of things.I also know Javik has a different (more approving) initial assessment of ReneShep, and believes ParaShep is lying if you say you'll do whatever is necessary to win.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 décembre 2013 - 02:32 .

#49
Steelcan
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 02:31

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Seems this is only really applicable to Shepards who let the top of the wheel think for them. Do "burn-down-the-orphanage" renegades get the "king of the boy scouts" moniker too? I know my canon was about 60-40 paragade at the end of things.

yep

#50
DeinonSlayer
Posté 06 décembre 2013 - 02:35

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Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Seems this is only really applicable to Shepards who let the top of the wheel think for them. Do "burn-down-the-orphanage" renegades get the "king of the boy scouts" moniker too? I know my canon was about 60-40 paragade at the end of things.

yep

Well that's lame.

I still think they looked at their ME2 stats, saw how many people mindlessly punched the top of the wheel every single time (largely because the persuasion system required it) and restructured ME3 accordingly: paragon on top, everything else on bottom.
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