148 réponses à ce sujet

[MGW7]

OrcWhisperer wrote...

Because the game is not only about killing things as quickly as possible.

So, why use the harrier when you have a perfectly good avenger, after all, it's deadly on full auto

[Evil]

Tokenusername wrote...

OrcWhisperer wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
Perfectly reasonable strategy, but the way TC works you're actually hurting your damage. Bonus power means you use most of the duration of cloak, which depending on your weapon (especially if you have omni-blade on DLC guns) will increase your cooldown.

This exactly, Why cloak kill twice in 15 seconds when I could do it once every 5 seconds,

Because the game is not only about killing things as quickly as possible.

It's also quite stylish.

Also, just because you can cast SS twice in a single cloak cycle doesn't mean that you will be doing so all the time, SS'ing one foe then quickly running to a second under cloak then heavy meleeing it can be just as effective as the double SS but far quicker both to execute and cooldown from.

The fact it looks badass is just a bonus.

[Yo Son]

Bonus power does not work for it; it ends up creating two cooldowns for me O_o.

[Tokenusername]

Yo Son wrote...

Bonus power does not work for it; it ends up creating two cooldowns for me O_o.

That's how it's supposed to work. If you increase cloak duration however you can complete SS's cooldown before cloak ends and use it again.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Yo Son wrote...

Bonus power does not work for it; it ends up creating two cooldowns for me O_o.

That's how bonus power works

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

OrcWhisperer wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
Perfectly reasonable strategy, but the way TC works you're actually hurting your damage. Bonus power means you use most of the duration of cloak, which depending on your weapon (especially if you have omni-blade on DLC guns) will increase your cooldown.

This exactly, Why cloak kill twice in 15 seconds when I could do it once every 5 seconds,

Because the game is not only about killing things as quickly as possible.

And Bonus Power Duration Spec doesn't actually work the way you guys are describing it. For one thing, it doesn't increase the recharge time of Tactical Cloak, that's ridiculous. The base recharge time remains the same, regardless of whether you take Bonus Spec or Duration, and Duration stretches the window of oppurtunity to cancel tactical cloak early, scaling with the new, increased duration, meaning it actually reduces your recharge time, on average.

It definitely doesn't slow you down to 2 kills per 15 seconds. It actually dramatically increases the options of the combinations that count under Cloak's damage bonus, as well as increasing the number of attacks that receive the bonus.

It won't match a damag-spec output, but the difference is quite small.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 07 décembre 2013 - 12:48 .

[Tokenusername]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

OrcWhisperer wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
Perfectly reasonable strategy, but the way TC works you're actually hurting your damage. Bonus power means you use most of the duration of cloak, which depending on your weapon (especially if you have omni-blade on DLC guns) will increase your cooldown.

This exactly, Why cloak kill twice in 15 seconds when I could do it once every 5 seconds,

Because the game is not only about killing things as quickly as possible.

And Bonus Power Duration Spec doesn't actually work the way you guys are describing it. For one thing, it doesn't increase the recharge time of Tactical Cloak, that's ridiculous. The base recharge time remains the same, regardless of whether you take Bonus Spec or Duration, and Duration stretches the window of oppurtunity to cancel tactical cloak early, scaling with the new, increased duration, meaning it actually reduces your recharge time, on average.

It definitely doesn't slow you down to 2 kills per 15 seconds. It actually dramatically increases the options of the combinations that count under Cloak's damage bonus, as well as increasing the number of attacks that receive the bonus.

It won't match a damag-spec output, but the difference is quite small.

TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Tokenusername wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

OrcWhisperer wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
Perfectly reasonable strategy, but the way TC works you're actually hurting your damage. Bonus power means you use most of the duration of cloak, which depending on your weapon (especially if you have omni-blade on DLC guns) will increase your cooldown.

This exactly, Why cloak kill twice in 15 seconds when I could do it once every 5 seconds,

Because the game is not only about killing things as quickly as possible.

And Bonus Power Duration Spec doesn't actually work the way you guys are describing it. For one thing, it doesn't increase the recharge time of Tactical Cloak, that's ridiculous. The base recharge time remains the same, regardless of whether you take Bonus Spec or Duration, and Duration stretches the window of oppurtunity to cancel tactical cloak early, scaling with the new, increased duration, meaning it actually reduces your recharge time, on average.

It definitely doesn't slow you down to 2 kills per 15 seconds. It actually dramatically increases the options of the combinations that count under Cloak's damage bonus, as well as increasing the number of attacks that receive the bonus.

It won't match a damag-spec output, but the difference is quite small.

TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

But the cooldown will never exceed the listed length in the power menu.

[MGW7]

FatherOfPearl wrote...But the cooldown will never exceed the listed length in the power menu.

But you also need to add in duration, if you spend 8 seconds cloaked, and have a 7 second cooldown, you can only complete one cycle every 15 seconds

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

And Bonus Power Duration Spec doesn't actually work the way you guys are describing it. For one thing, it doesn't increase the recharge time of Tactical Cloak, that's ridiculous. The base recharge time remains the same, regardless of whether you take Bonus Spec or Duration, and Duration stretches the window of oppurtunity to cancel tactical cloak early, scaling with the new, increased duration, meaning it actually reduces your recharge time, on average.

It definitely doesn't slow you down to 2 kills per 15 seconds. It actually dramatically increases the options of the combinations that count under Cloak's damage bonus, as well as increasing the number of attacks that receive the bonus.

It won't match a damag-spec output, but the difference is quite small.

Bonus power indirectly increases cooldowns, as we describe
If you aren't breaking cloak immediately you suffer a greater proportion of the cooldown, therefore bonus power not breaking cloak forces you to loose the 3 second cooldown, add in that you loose time in cloak, and it impares your damage output far more than it can possibly make up

Modifié par MGW7, 07 décembre 2013 - 01:17 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Tokenusername wrote...
TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

And if your listed refresh is 3 seconds, it will never get longer, regardless of whether you take Bonus Power or duration. Because those things don't increase recharge time.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 07 décembre 2013 - 01:16 .

[Rotward]

MGW7 wrote...

FatherOfPearl wrote...But the cooldown will never exceed the listed length in the power menu.

But you also need to add in duration, if you spend 8 seconds cloaked, and have a 7 second cooldown, you can only complete one cycle every 15 seconds

If the CD didn't delay until after cloak ended, you would be able  to cloak 100% of the time. 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

MGW7 wrote...

FatherOfPearl wrote...But the cooldown will never exceed the listed length in the power menu.

But you also need to add in duration, if you spend 8 seconds cloaked, and have a 7 second cooldown, you can only complete one cycle every 15 seconds

No. That's not how it works... you should try the two evolutions in question.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

MGW7 wrote...

Bonus power indirectly increases cooldowns, as we describe
If you aren't breaking cloak immediately you suffer a greater proportion of the cooldown, therefore bonus power not breaking cloak forces you to loose the 3 second cooldown, add in that you loose time in cloak, and it impares your damage output far more than it can possibly make up

No, bonus power does not increase cooldown at all.

Bonus Power does not cause you to lose a 3 second cool down.

And you can almost entirely make up the damage output by using comboes effectively.

You should try the evolutions in question for yourself, and see how they work.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 07 décembre 2013 - 01:20 .

[MGW7]

Rotward wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

FatherOfPearl wrote...But the cooldown will never exceed the listed length in the power menu.

But you also need to add in duration, if you spend 8 seconds cloaked, and have a 7 second cooldown, you can only complete one cycle every 15 seconds

If the CD didn't delay until after cloak ended, you would be able  to cloak 100% of the time. 

I know that
NOT THE POINT
the point is that bonus power greatly increases the time between attack cycles, which greatly impairs your damage output, and a free SS is nowhere near enough to compensate

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

MGW7 wrote...

I know that
NOT THE POINT
the point is that bonus power greatly increases the time between attack cycles, which greatly impairs your damage output, and a free SS is nowhere near enough to compensate

You really don't know how the power works, and you should find out.

[Tokenusername]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

And if your listed refresh is 3 seconds, it will never get longer, regardless of whether you take Bonus Power or duration. Because those things don't increase recharge time.

Depending on what weapon and which mods you have, your recharge may be significantly more than 3 seconds.

[Argent Xero]

Evil Mastered wrote...

We already have 2 humans, a salarian, 2 quarians, a geth, and a drell that make vicious snipers, using the N7 shadow as a sniper is a waste of her unique melee and shadow strike ability's IMO.

She would have been buffed massively if bioware had replaced her version of cloak with the AIU's version in the last patch, but she's still a good kit, she just needs to have the player make good opportunistic use of her melee attacks on nearby mooks after SS'ing to improve her kill speed.

Decapitating two mooks with a single sword slash is amusing, I wonder if a triple kill is possible?

Synch-kill units are her bane though, so I imaging she sucks at playing platinum as a melee kit. This might be why argent is favouring the sniper build.

I can do pretty well with melee kits on Platinum, it's just that she's too slow to actually pull off a decent melee.

Back when I used her for melee, I used shotguns (Raider, Graal and Venom)

with the Raider, I couldn't hit anything at range which is important when vs Geth Pyros.

The Venom had to be used by releasing the shot on the ground but my heavy melee missed most of the time either because of the stagger or I wasn't locked on because of I was facing downward.

The Graal was ok, but it felt underwhelming vs bosses since Tech Bursts or Fire Explosions were being detonated by a Rank 3 Electric Slash.

I love the Kishock Harpoon Gun on her, it's just amazing on her. It's light, does great damage combined with Incendiary ammo and I can detonate with a more powerful Electric Slash.

This is the build I currently use: http://kalence.drupa...34N55364!G8.GFG

Modifié par ArgentN7, 07 décembre 2013 - 01:28 .

[MGW7]

Tokenusername wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

And if your listed refresh is 3 seconds, it will never get longer, regardless of whether you take Bonus Power or duration. Because those things don't increase recharge time.

Depending on what weapon and which mods you have, your recharge may be significantly more than 3 seconds.

This is the build that I will work off of, 6 points unspent for bonus power reasons, I know the evo itself has no bearing on cooldowns, but it still effects cloak's recharge

If using single strike, no bonus power, I can launch an attack cycle every three seconds,
Using bonus power, if I reach the max duration I can only attack every 13 seconds,
Using duration, I may not be able to attack faster than every 20 seconds,

Note that both bonus power builds are far slower, and that bonus power led to far more down time than the first option

[MGW7]

ArgentN7 wrote...
This is the build I currently use: http://kalence.drupa...34N55364!G8.GFG

iirc
Detonate evo on electric slash is bugged and doesn't work

[Argent Xero]

MGW7 wrote...

ArgentN7 wrote...
This is the build I currently use: http://kalence.drupa...34N55364!G8.GFG

iirc
Detonate evo on electric slash is bugged and doesn't work

...wtf

[Evil]

ArgentN7 wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

ArgentN7 wrote...
This is the build I currently use: http://kalence.drupa...34N55364!G8.GFG

iirc
Detonate evo on electric slash is bugged and doesn't work

...wtf

But then, recharge on an infiltrator is almost worthless too...

[hong]

MGW7 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...
TC cooldown doesn't get shorter than 3 seconds, only longer.

And if your listed refresh is 3 seconds, it will never get longer, regardless of whether you take Bonus Power or duration. Because those things don't increase recharge time.

Depending on what weapon and which mods you have, your recharge may be significantly more than 3 seconds.

This is the build that I will work off of, 6 points unspent for bonus power reasons, I know the evo itself has no bearing on cooldowns, but it still effects cloak's recharge

If using single strike, no bonus power, I can launch an attack cycle every three seconds,
Using bonus power, if I reach the max duration I can only attack every 13 seconds,
Using duration, I may not be able to attack faster than every 20 seconds,

Note that both bonus power builds are far slower, and that bonus power led to far more down time than the first option

If you're using bonus power, you should also be using a light weapon because now the cooldown on TC is actually important.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

MGW7 wrote...

This is the build that I will work off of, 6 points unspent for bonus power reasons, I know the evo itself has no bearing on cooldowns, but it still effects cloak's recharge

If using single strike, no bonus power, I can launch an attack cycle every three seconds,
Using bonus power, if I reach the max duration I can only attack every 13 seconds,
Using duration, I may not be able to attack faster than every 20 seconds,

Note that both bonus power builds are far slower, and that bonus power led to far more down time than the first option

Bonus power has no impact on the recharge speed of Shadow Strike or Electric Slash, if you load yourself up and increase their recharge time, you are doing so with your loadout, not with bonus power. You don't understand the mechanics in play, but you can read up on them in the Resource Library.

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 07 décembre 2013 - 02:05 .

[Argent Xero]

ok I'm going to try Rank 3 Shadow Strike. I took 4a in passives and skipped rank 6. I changed Rank 6 of fitness to Armor damage.

It's to deal with Phantoms and Dragoons much easier.

[MGW7]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

MGW7 wrote...

This is the build that I will work off of, 6 points unspent for bonus power reasons, I know the evo itself has no bearing on cooldowns, but it still effects cloak's recharge

If using single strike, no bonus power, I can launch an attack cycle every three seconds,
Using bonus power, if I reach the max duration I can only attack every 13 seconds,
Using duration, I may not be able to attack faster than every 20 seconds,

Note that both bonus power builds are far slower, and that bonus power led to far more down time than the first option

Bonus power has no impact on the recharge speed of Shadow Strike or Electric Slash, if you load yourself up and increase their recharge time, you are doing so with your loadout, not with bonus power. You don't understand the mechanics in play, but you can read up on them in the Resource Library.

The build was chosen for having no bonus +/-

There is the deal, If you want to double SS you need a light loadout, And because the lighter weapons aren't as good as heavier weapons, the double ss technique is inherently going to be less powerful, and you aren't nessisarily getting more SS

Single SS build is still capable of delivering many shadow strikes (1 every 3 seconds), but is not limited by your choice of weapons, this allows you to deal far more damage than the dSS kit,

And in regards to bonus power and recharge, I am saying that based on the fact that tac cloak gets a longer recharge the more time you spend cloaked, the fact that your first ss doesn't break cloak means you are spending more time cloaked, this means when you break cloak later, the recharge will be longer than had you broken it then

Overall, my view is that bonus power only adds weight being a factor, so I am paying 6 points to be punished for having a heavy weapon, for a not overly great reward

Modifié par MGW7, 07 décembre 2013 - 03:06 .