78 réponses à ce sujet

[Rotward]

liggy002 wrote...

Rotward wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Right, my grandmother died, no need to despair, I can headcanon her to be alive....it's called delusion.

Headcanon is just one step removed from from delusion

You're comparing a real life scenario to a work of fiction.  This is akin to comparing apples to oranges.  By creating a new story, this can be remedied but there is no way to stop your grandma from passing. Also, reality is a matter of perspective.  You create your own reality.  As an example, your grandma passed away and there is nothing you can do about that to bring her back.  However, suppose your grandmother never truly passed away and is in fact very much alive in a better place.  There are two different realities based on perspective.  In one, your grandma passed and is gone forever.  In another, she still lives on in the after life.

You should have stopped at, "This is akin to comparing apples to oranges." The difference is that, with fiction, none of it's real. crimzon's obviously drawing a bad comparison, but damn dude, you're making him look good. 

No, you just obviously cannot comprehend what I am saying.

You sound like a teenager bemoaning their parents because they just don't get it. 

KaiserShep wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone else have absolutely no idea what liggy's trying to prove here?

There is a tier of opinion so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I am liggy.

Pfthahahahahaha 

Modifié par Rotward, 07 décembre 2013 - 04:32 .

[Hazegurl]

AlanC9 wrote...

Anyone else have absolutely no idea what liggy's trying to prove here?

I thought I had it but I lost it.

[Rixatrix]

"All fiction is fan fiction"? On what dimenson are you talking about here? If it's philosophically, then maybe.

Relevant:

Paulo Coelho....shares the idea that all writers are only recycling four stories. First, because all anyone ever does is recycle the same four themes: a love story between two people, a love triangle, the struggle for power, and the story of a journey... 

Aristotle said there were only two stories, Comedy and Tragedy. We know quite a lot of what he thought about the latter, but his ideas on the former have been lost for some years.

Arthur Quiller-Couch devised the rather Man centric seven plots of Man vs. Man, Man vs. Nature, Man against God, Man vs. Society, Man in the Middle, Man & Woman, Man vs. Himself. Also weighing in for the number seven is Christopher Booker, who puts forward a convincing argument that all plots revolve around the conflict between humanity and our selfish ego, only then to ruin it by trying to argue that all 20th Century literature represents the capitulation of the the self to the ego.

George Polti outlined Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations including Deliverance, Pursuit, Disaster, Revolt and thirty two more.

Perhaps my current favourite has recently been republished in Plotto : the Master Book of All Plots by dime novelist William Wallace Cook which represents a possible 1,462 plots. Wallace once wrote fifty-four novels in one year. Take that NaNoWriMo fanatics!

In probably the most famous typology of story, Joseph Campbell trumped everyone by declaring there was only one plot and naming it the Monomyth, thereby determining the formula for almost every Hollywood blockbuster from Star Wars to The Matrix, Toy Story and The Dark Knight."

I appreciate the attempt to make everyone feel good about their interpretations/extrapolations/variations.

[Zan51]

liggy002 wrote...

Zan51 wrote...

What makes the work on the ME Universe not fan fiction is that it is indeed unique, and as it has been published professionally. Bioware/EA now own the Copyright for it. You cannot Copyright Fan Fiction because the original idea was not yours.

If the OP wants to take the no new ideas route, there are said to only be 7 original story ides, all others are derivations of it. However, what makes a written form of an idea/story unique, is the writer's unique perspective on it.
It all really hinges on the Copyright. You can read about it here http://io9.com/59339...d-fan-art-legal and here http://www.techdirt....al-primer.shtml if you really want to argue the topic from any position of genuine knowledge.  

It is fan fiction because like it or not, their story was inspired by and based off of science fiction ideas and concepts that previously existed.  They are fans of the science fiction genre and wrote the story based on ideas created by others.  Therefore, it is in point of fact fan fiction.  Maybe a lot of people like the ME3 story.  That's their business though I cannot fathom why they would like that mess.

Also, the copyright exists to protect the creators not as a stamp that says my work is more valid than yours.

Well, Iggy, just go ahead and write your "fan fiction" and don't get in a twist when you get prosecuted for plagerism and Intellectual theft.  Did you even read the links that lay out the Real Life legal situation?  Real life, you know, outside of forums and your opinion??

[Rotward]

^ but if he writes fanfictoin where he wasn't really sued, and isn't really broke or in jail, then he'll be alright.

[KaiserShep]

EntropicAngel wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Let me tell you the story of how I choked a **** (fellow band member) for playing my songs at a party and claiming them as his own.

I'd be p*ssed too if someone claimed my songs were their own.

The people who say that kind of crap are typically people who aren't creators.

This is pretty much the same story for fan art. I do fan art of a lot of the things I like, but it would be ridiculous of me to say that the concepts I'm recreating or embellishing upon are my own.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Wow this is so deep. You really hit the nail on the head there didn't you?

Seriously though you've been grasping at straws ever since the game was released nearly two years ago. When will you stop?

[KaiserShep]

I guess that depends on how many straws are left.

[Rusty Sandusky]

This thread needs to be Spiderman'd

[crimzontearz]

You should have stopped at, "This is akin to comparing apples to oranges." The difference is that, with fiction, none of it's real. crimzon's obviously drawing a bad comparison, but damn dude, you're making him look good.

If you read the rest of my posts you would know that my comparison is accurate because I am focusing on the lack of actual consequences of the head canon/fanfiction on the fiction/continuity they spawned from

[Estelindis]

People often get a different perspective on fan fiction the first time someone else mutilates their work, whether it's by putting a spin on a character that completely betrays the author's intention, ignoring context that they don't like, changing the themes of the work, etc. I don't like it, but I deal. I just tell myself that the character/world/event/whatever that the fanfictioneer wrote isn't my one but an alternate universe! But it's honestly a bitter pill to see someone so completely miss the point of what one has written. It makes me feel like I've failed as a writer.

Of course, there's the good fanfic (and plenty of it) to balance things out.

[DeathScepter]

CynicalShep wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

liggy002, we all know what this thread needs more of. A certain character perhaps........Spiderman.

Spiderman, Batman,  or Pyrmaid  Quotes?

yes it is always time for  Spiderman

[trenq]

 

[Matthias King]

liggy002 wrote...

 At one point, the story tellers at Bioware were just fans of science fiction.  After some time, they created their own fan fiction ( ME 1 - ME 3).  The fact that this fan fiction was purchased and enjoyed by many does not change the fact that it is still fan fiction.  As such, Bioware's own interpretation of the story does not make it canon nor is their official stance on the story any more valid than yours.

  'Official' is a matter of perspective.  If you don't like how this story turned out, then I encourage you to rewrite what you don't like.  Your own fan fiction is just as valid as their fiction.  If the game itself really bothers you, then develop a new one your self.  Never mind what others tell you isn't possible, just think positively and do what feels right.  If you come to understand this, then realize that the story of Mass Effect is also your story.  What belongs to them also belongs to you.

In the same way, your Shepard is YOUR Shepard.  You choose how the story will play out.  Your story is legitimate.  After coming to this realization, I now understand that the ending I despise is no more valid than my interpretation of the events.  Therefore, I am at peace with the end result of their story.  I only need to finish mine.

False, period, point blank. 

Indeed, original fiction and fan-fiction are both fiction, but they are in no way the same.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  No matter how well-written a fan-fiction story may be, no matter how much readers may love it, no matter how much you may want it to be so, it simply is not so.

However, that doesn't mean that you can't like fan-fiction just as much as the original fiction, even more so if you want to.

[KaiserShep]

If only Orson Scott Card were here to declare that his fan fiction is the only fiction that matters.

[jtav]

All fiction is equally real, which is to say unreal. Miranda Lawson is not going to slap me with a libel suit because I wrote a novel where she ran off with Petrovsky. Fanfic is just as valid as original work. But it is distinct from original work. The trouble comes when fan authors start demanding their work be treated as if it were part of the original work. I have a hard time imagining Shep as dead in Synthesis, but that's not helpful when discussing the game as is.

[KaiserShep]

Seems easy enough to imagine Shepard being dead in Synthesis. He does, after all, get vaporized.

[Hazegurl]

jtav wrote...

All fiction is equally real, which is to say unreal. Miranda Lawson is not going to slap me with a libel suit because I wrote a novel where she ran off with Petrovsky. Fanfic is just as valid as original work. But it is distinct from original work. The trouble comes when fan authors start demanding their work be treated as if it were part of the original work. I have a hard time imagining Shep as dead in Synthesis, but that's not helpful when discussing the game as is.

I used to read fan fic and I've never heard of any fan fic author demanding that their work gets treated like it was original. Actually many of them place disclaimers that flat out state that the work is not theirs. Unless something has changed.

[JamesFaith]

Hazegurl wrote...

jtav wrote...

All fiction is equally real, which is to say unreal. Miranda Lawson is not going to slap me with a libel suit because I wrote a novel where she ran off with Petrovsky. Fanfic is just as valid as original work. But it is distinct from original work. The trouble comes when fan authors start demanding their work be treated as if it were part of the original work. I have a hard time imagining Shep as dead in Synthesis, but that's not helpful when discussing the game as is.

I used to read fan fic and I've never heard of any fan fic author demanding that their work gets treated like it was original. Actually many of them place disclaimers that flat out state that the work is not theirs. Unless something has changed.

Well, maybe not by author in this case, but there were many demands on BSN to implement MEHEM as official part of ME3.

[Linkenski]

No OP, you're totally wrong. When $$$ are put into fiction it automatically becomes actual fiction and not fan-fiction.

[Ieldra]

@OP:
The distinction is that fan fiction is derivative of someone else's work. You aren't working with original characters you created yourself, or with original worlds. The work of the original authors serves as a framework for fan fiction. You can introduce some original ideas and characters, but as long as the world and part of the cast of the original work serves as a framework and it's not explicity recognized by the creators of the original work as part of their extended universe, it's fan fiction.

That does not, however, detract from its "validity". Stories are stories, regardless of how they came to be, and a good story isn't less good just because it happens to be fan fiction. In fact, I'd say there is some fan fiction better than the original work (in storytelling) specifically with regard to game universes, because of the limitations of commercial in-game presentation which written fiction isn't subject to.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 08 décembre 2013 - 08:05 .