201 réponses à ce sujet

[Exaltation]

I would love Darkspawn companion lol,i did alliance with The Architect,we could have The Messenger for a few moments by our side to defend the City of Amaranthine,but not as companion.

[GDog89]

An Awakened Darkspawn would be a reasonable companion since demons and darkspawn would likely fight each other anyway.

[Uccio]

No.Never.

[Vortex13]

Darkspawn companions are more then possible for the setting.

[KC_Prototype]

Ukki wrote...

No.Never.

YES!!

[St. Victorious]

How about a romanceable Darkspawn/Demon abomination? One that's an Arcane Warrior to boot.

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...

Seriously though, I don't see why having a single Awakened Darkspawn as a companion, or a small group of them as Agents of the the Inquisitor would would be so lore breaking.

It's not lore breaking, but having lots of darkspawn in place is problematic for how the taint works. I get that you're an incredibly big fan of erasing everything that's "bad" about the darkspawn to make them companions, but (a) that defeats the point of having them there and ( that amounts to breaking the lore.

Still, the usual complaint is about how morally problematic it is to have the biological weapon/flesh-eating rape abomination as a companion and pretend that this is somehow a good thing, or otherwise again erase everything that's horrible about the darkspawn to make it morally OK to lug one around. 

Yes the Taint is deadly, but we do have magic artifacts, spells and training that could prevent such a companion from poisoning everything. We are only talking about (at most) five or six Awakened, if Agents, or one, if a companion, I think it would be well within the realm of established lore for such allies to avoid the danger of spreading the Taint.

You mean, we have ways of breaking the currently established lore to make it perfectly OK to have a darkspawn around, never deal with any of the negative consequences of a darkspawn being there, and otherwise pretend like the most morally problematic things about the darkspawn aren't real problems?

[The Elder King]

I think that either Laidlaw or Darrah, when taking about mages and templars in a GI video, stated that demons and darkspawn are 'evil'. So I don't think it'd happen.

[Angrywolves]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Seriously though, I don't see why having a single Awakened Darkspawn as a companion, or a small group of them as Agents of the the Inquisitor would would be so lore breaking.

It's not lore breaking, but having lots of darkspawn in place is problematic for how the taint works. I get that you're an incredibly big fan of erasing everything that's "bad" about the darkspawn to make them companions, but (a) that defeats the point of having them there and ( that amounts to breaking the lore.

Still, the usual complaint is about how morally problematic it is to have the biological weapon/flesh-eating rape abomination as a companion and pretend that this is somehow a good thing, or otherwise again erase everything that's horrible about the darkspawn to make it morally OK to lug one around. 

Yes the Taint is deadly, but we do have magic artifacts, spells and training that could prevent such a companion from poisoning everything. We are only talking about (at most) five or six Awakened, if Agents, or one, if a companion, I think it would be well within the realm of established lore for such allies to avoid the danger of spreading the Taint.

You mean, we have ways of breaking the currently established lore to make it perfectly OK to have a darkspawn around, never deal with any of the negative consequences of a darkspawn being there, and otherwise pretend like the most morally problematic things about the darkspawn aren't real problems?

Agree 100%

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Seriously though, I don't see why having a single Awakened Darkspawn as a companion, or a small group of them as Agents of the the Inquisitor would would be so lore breaking.

It's not lore breaking, but having lots of darkspawn in place is problematic for how the taint works. I get that you're an incredibly big fan of erasing everything that's "bad" about the darkspawn to make them companions, but (a) that defeats the point of having them there and ( that amounts to breaking the lore.

Still, the usual complaint is about how morally problematic it is to have the biological weapon/flesh-eating rape abomination as a companion and pretend that this is somehow a good thing, or otherwise again erase everything that's horrible about the darkspawn to make it morally OK to lug one around. 

Yes the Taint is deadly, but we do have magic artifacts, spells and training that could prevent such a companion from poisoning everything. We are only talking about (at most) five or six Awakened, if Agents, or one, if a companion, I think it would be well within the realm of established lore for such allies to avoid the danger of spreading the Taint.

You mean, we have ways of breaking the currently established lore to make it perfectly OK to have a darkspawn around, never deal with any of the negative consequences of a darkspawn being there, and otherwise pretend like the most morally problematic things about the darkspawn aren't real problems?

We are not talking about an army of Darkspawn here, we are talking about (at most) four or five; if the Awakened would be Agents of the Inquisitor,  and one if a companion. The lore would not be broken if the Darkspawn was able to suppress its Taint so it wouldn't corrupt everything around it, nor would it be making moral amends for the Darkspawn as a whole.

The Reapers always radiated an indoctrination field, but they could slow the process down to suit their needs. Intelligent Darkspawn like the Architect could manipulate the Taint to suit his needs, I don't see how it is so impossible for an agreeable Darkspawn would be able to do the same when we have numerous examples of the "Deadly engergy field/cursed blood being altered to suit the characters's (and plot's) needs"  already present within the lore. 

Also an Awakened who wants to help the player would obviously be operating under different moral priciples then the rest of the Darkspawn so saying that there would be a huge moral issues to contend with wouldn't really apply to the indiviual Awakened helping the player since it is aiding you. The only moral issue would be in how the rest of the world views it's kind.

Edit: The Warden could side with Werewolves, give the Anvil of the Void to Branka, and Annul the Ferelden Circle; all incredibly immoral (the Werewolves decision especially) and yet the game didn't break, the forces of Frelden didn't refuse to follow you into battle, the narrative didn't have to make any concessions to allow these actions to come to pass that resulted in broken lore.

The Qunari can be seen to be just as evil (depending on who you ask) as the Darkspawn, they can be seen as a representation of brainwashing and religious intolerance, of aggressive, hostile takeover. And yet by showing that they are working with the Inquisitor, that they are not trying to take over the world, their moral implications can be overlooked for the sake of having their help. Not saying that the entire world will forgive and forget all of their actions, but if it is obvious that this Darkspawn is not corrupting, raping, or eating people then I believe the moral implications  intrinsic to the Darkspawn race, can be overlooked, at least for the time being.

Modifié par Vortex13, 10 décembre 2013 - 02:47 .

[Br3admax]

Why anyone wants a walking abscess as a companion and bunkmate boggles the mind, it really does.

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
We are not talking about an army of Darkspawn here, we are talking about (at most) four or five if the Awakened would be Agents of the Inquisitor,  and one if a companion. The lore would not be broken if the Darkspawn was able to suppress its Taint so it wouldn't corrupt everything around it, nor would it be making moral amends for the Darkspawn as a whole.

The lore would most certainly be broken: because why would the magic work for one darkspawn but not for others? Why would the taint ever be a problem, unless the darkspawn chose to non-so-benevolently use it as a biological weapon? More importantly, you're still wiping away all of the bad associated with this race. 

All of a sudden, they're not toxing to every living being in existence. They're not poisoning the land. They're already not mindless, and you clearly want them to be moral paragons of virtue that refrain from things like reproduction so you don't have to condone their forcibly fleeding tainted ghoul flesh to women before raping them to turn them into darkspawn producing abominations. 

So what precisely is left of the darkspawn once you've made them companions? 

The Reapers always radiated an indoctrination field, but they could slow the process down to suit their needs. Intelligent Darkspawn like the Architect could manipulate the Taint to suit his needs, I don't see how it is so impossible for an agreeable Darkspawn would be able to do the same when we have numerous examples of the "Deadly engergy field/cursed blood be altered to suit the characters's (and plot's) needs  already present within the lore."  

Indoctrination in ME was stupid in its execution, because how it worked depended entirely on the plot. What you're suggesting here, again, is de-clawing the darkspawn to have one around. 

Also an Awakened who wants to help the player would obviously be operating under different moral priciples then the rest of the Darkspawn so saying that there would be a huge moral issues to contend with wouldn't really apply to the indiviual Awakened helping the player since it is aiding you. The only moral issue would be in how the rest of the world views it's kind.

See what I mean? You don't actually want a darkspawn - you want a special snowflake hero. 

[Vortex13]

hhh89 wrote...

I think that either Laidlaw or Darrah, when taking about mages and templars in a GI video, stated that demons and darkspawn are 'evil'. So I don't think it'd happen.

And yet Awakening goes out of its way to show that Awakened Darkspawn are cable of aiding the player.

If the Darkspawn were only ever intended to be mindless XP bags for the player to kill, then why would Bioware create an Expansion that had a Disciple (The Messenger) choosing to fight alongside the player to fight the Darkspawn?

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
And yet Awakening goes out of its way to show that Awakened Darkspawn are cable of aiding the player.

In the same way that one psycopathic serial killer doesn't prove that all of humanity is "evil", the Messenger certainly isn't proof that the darkspawn are good. And, in fact, the only evidence we have that the Messenger isn't evil isn't actually in the game, but rather in the epilogue slide were he's going around spreading the taint and killing people to save other people... so he's sort of saving them except for the part where he turns them into ghouls.

[LinksOcarina]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
And yet Awakening goes out of its way to show that Awakened Darkspawn are cable of aiding the player.

In the same way that one psycopathic serial killer doesn't prove that all of humanity is "evil", the Messenger certainly isn't proof that the darkspawn are good. And, in fact, the only evidence we have that the Messenger isn't evil isn't actually in the game, but rather in the epilogue slide were he's going around spreading the taint and killing people to save other people... so he's sort of saving them except for the part where he turns them into ghouls.

That...has potential actually. Although not enough to really make a companion out of it. 

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

The lore would most certainly be broken: because why would the magic work for one darkspawn but not for others? Why would the taint ever be a problem, unless the darkspawn chose to non-so-benevolently use it as a biological weapon? More importantly, you're still wiping away all of the bad associated with this race. 

How many Awakened actually tried to help the player? The use of magic could work for any of the Awakened if they wanted it to, but again, how many actually wanted to be something other then what we've come to expect from the Darkspawn as a whole?

A Darkspawn in control of it's Taint could very easily go bad and 'turn it on' again, but you know a Mage can summon a Demon, or flay a person's skin off if they wanted to.  You are saying that a Darkspawn companion with the possibility of using it's Taint for nefarious purposes is breaking lore, but having a Mage with the possibility of snapping and creating a Harvester is not; IMO both scenarios are the same.

In Exile wrote...

All of a sudden, they're not toxing to every living being in existence. They're not poisoning the land. They're already not mindless, and you clearly want them to be moral paragons of virtue that refrain from things like reproduction so you don't have to condone their forcibly fleeding tainted ghoul flesh to women before raping them to turn them into darkspawn producing abominations. 

So what precisely is left of the darkspawn once you've made them companions?

Darkspawn are genetically immortal, so why would one need to create Brood Mothers and reproduce again? Awakened are not driven by animalistic urges, they are capable of making choices, and over the course of DA:I's story I highly doubt that reproduction would be at the forefront of anyone's mind when they are trying to stave off a Demonic invasion.

One (or a small handful of) helpful Darkspawn does not excuse the rest of the Darkspawn race of their atrocities, anymore then one helpful Qunari, or Chantry member would excuse all of the atrocities committed by those two groups. 

In Exile wrote...

Also an Awakened who wants to help the player would obviously be operating under different moral priciples then the rest of the Darkspawn so saying that there would be a huge moral issues to contend with wouldn't really apply to the indiviual Awakened helping the player since it is aiding you. The only moral issue would be in how the rest of the world views it's kind.

See what I mean? You don't actually want a darkspawn - you want a special snowflake hero. 

Sten, Shale, Justice, Legion, Wrex, EDI, Javik all of these characters were different, and unique among the general stereotype of their kind. So if wanting a Darkspawn companion is akin to wanting another Shale, or Wrex, or Legion, then I would agree.

[Nightdragon8]

A spirt maybe. Cause I don't think they like having the hole in the veil eiter... but in a way it helps them because it lets all the negative ones out.

as for darkspawn.... no and please no... how can you really ask that after you find out how they make broodmothers... i mean seriously no.

[Uccio]

Vortex13 wrote...

Darkspawn are genetically immortal, so why would one need to create Brood Mothers and reproduce?

Darkspawn are like bacteria or cancer. Their only goal is to reproduce and destroy all other living things.

[NYG1991]

A demon that follows you around if you're a bloodmage.

Not a full fledged companion but a follower like the shinigami in "Death Note". It'd be more for interactions with the PC during conversations

[MisanthropePrime]

If we're talking about Awakened darkspawn as agents, why can't we use their tainting to our benefit?

What if one of these Awakened is a rogue, we can have him sneak into a enemy keep, hock a loogie into their water supply and sneak out and kill them all within days.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Messenger was an interesting character. I kinda of want to see more of him or more like him. Given that nobody made the connection, I had thought the implcation was that the people he saved weren't the same people he infected with the darkspawn taint. I think Awakening established that Awakened darkspawn are a total wildcard. Many of them act independently. The Messenger was clearly earnest, if dangerous. But others are total sadists, like the one who murdered Velanna's clan and framed the humans (most of whom he also killed) just to see what happens.

I got the impression that the Withered was actually trying to obtain Grey Warden's help, but between the Wardens kill on sight policy with darkspawn and his clumsy understanding of them he decided to take them to the Architect by force

The other thing is that apparently the taint can be controlled or manipulated.The Architect apparently kept his word to Armass and he was not infected and Serrani didn't appear to be a regular ghoul. The Messenger obviously didn't know how, but it seems like it would be something some of them might want to try to learn. For good or ill.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 10 décembre 2013 - 09:28 .

[Vortex13]

Ukki wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

Darkspawn are genetically immortal, so why would one need to create Brood Mothers and reproduce?

Darkspawn are like bacteria or cancer. Their only goal is to reproduce and destroy all other living things.

Regular Darkspawn yes, but not Awakened.

[Vortex13]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Messenger was an interesting character. I kinda of want to see more of him or more like him. Given that nobody made the connection, I had thought the implcation was that the people he saved weren't the same people he infected with the darkspawn taint. I think Awakening established that Awakened darkspawn are a total wildcard. Many of them act independently. The Messenger was clearly earnest, if dangerous. But others are total sadists, like the one who murdered Velanna's clan and framed the humans (most of whom he also killed) just to see what happens.

I got the impression that the Withered was actually trying to obtain Grey Warden's help, but between the Wardens kill on sight policy with darkspawn and his clumsy understanding of them he decided to take them to the Architect by force

The other thing is that apparently the taint can be controlled or manipulated.The Architect apparently kept his word to Armass and he was not infected and Serrani didn't appear to be a regular ghoul. The Messenger obviously didn't know how, but it seems like it would be something some of them might want to try to learn. For good or ill.

Agreed.

[Vortex13]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

as for darkspawn.... no and please no... how can you really ask that after you find out how they make broodmothers... i mean seriously no.

Same thing could be said of some of the other companions that we have had.

For instance, did you know that Sten ruthlessly murdered an entire family; men, women, and children; over a sword?

While the actions of both Sten and Darkspawn are abhorant, at least the Darkspawn's reproductive cycle serves a purpose to their kind (as abhorant as it is). Sten's murderous rampage had no purpose, served no purpose, and yet he was a possible companion, and we had interesting character development on his part as we explored that action, and his regret of it.

[Bad King]

I wouldn't put it past BioWare: we got a prothean companion and a sexbot companion in ME3. A darkspawn companion would be less ridiculous than either of those.