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[Angrywolves]

Toasted Llama wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...
I think this benevolence you mention is just a fiction.

The Messenger says hi.

One messenger doesn't make an entire race.:innocent:

[Ziegrif]

Darkspawn!

Someone like that one dood in Awakening!

Modifié par Ziegrif, 26 décembre 2013 - 02:57 .

[Toasted Llama]

Angrywolves wrote...
One messenger doesn't make an entire race.:innocent:

You only read what you want to read. I never said that the entire darkspawn race was benevolent. Discussion is pointless if you do not carefully read what another says.

[MajorKellyRisner]

Darkspawn. and I shall call him or her Ser Cuddlesworth :3

[Angrywolves]

Toasted Llama wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...
One messenger doesn't make an entire race.:innocent:

You only read what you want to read. I never said that the entire darkspawn race was benevolent. Discussion is pointless if you do not carefully read what another says.

Not really here to discuss with you.
I sense you're frustrated by not having more people agree with you and you're getting defensive.
That's ok, it's a natural human response.
Most players don't agree with you and I for one doubt Bioware will have darkspawn companions for the reasons previously stated.
As for demons, if we get stuck with Cole that's close enough.We won't need anything more of that kind of stuff having just had Justice/Vengeance in DA2.<_<

[Vortex13]

We need a definite "non human" companion IMO. Dwarves, Elves, and Qunari are simply analogues of various human ideals, or countries; you could replace characters like Varric with a human and his personality would remain unchanged.

I'm not saying that I hate characters like Varric, or Miranda, but they are undoubtedly 'human' in nature. The reason I like Sci-Fi and Fantasy settings is because they offer the 'non-human' side of things; they have characters and elements that don't exist in our world. I enjoy the exotic creatures and places that these types of settings offer; I don't really find an Earth-like planet filled with humans with pointy ears nearly as fascinating as a world shaped entirely by emotion and will, and filled with creatures that are the personification of a single thought or emotion; for example.

Also, Bioware tends to go against stereotype with their 'non-human' characters, in that they have their own individual personalities, and have more variety and depth when compared to the "Not human (or near-human analogue) = Bad" that most other fantasy/sci-fi settings have. Really though, if having such companions (or the possibility of such companions) is such a bad thing, then Bioware really shouldn't have given players such scenarios where the non-human and the human characters can interact with, and help each other.

You can't give us players such instances like the Werewolves, the Geth, the Awakened (specifically the Messenger), Leviathian, Sylvans (specifically the Grand Oak), or the Rachni; and NOT expect players (like me) to want to see such creatures as allies, or portrayed as friendly with the player. At least that's how I see it.

*Granted my post here is a little broad for the current discussions, but I believe it still holds merit.

[Angrywolves]

The aliens from the alien movie series.I doubt would /could be allies.
You can't and shouldn't want all monsters /beasts/hostile aliens to automatically become benevolent and become allies just because some players might like it or want it.
It's not realistic in a rpg fantasy sense..Oh Sauron becomes a good guy.
Kefka, Kuja and Sephiroth become good guys.
The shark from Jaws becomes flipper and turns to carrying people around on its back instead of eating them.

shrugs.

Unlikely to be that way in a fantasy rpg.

[Vortex13]

Angrywolves wrote...

The aliens from the alien movie series.I doubt would /could be allies.
You can't and shouldn't want all monsters /beasts/hostile aliens to automatically become benevolent and become allies just because some players might like it or want it.
It's not realistic in a rpg fantasy sense..Oh Sauron becomes a good guy.
Kefka, Kuja and Sephiroth become good guys.
The shark from Jaws becomes flipper and turns to carrying people around on its back instead of eating them.

shrugs.

Unlikely to be that way in a fantasy rpg.

Not automatically becoming good two shoes good guys no. But the precedent set within the lore means that there are reasonable expectations for certain creatures being allies to the player.

The Werewolves for example; you can not have a scenario where the player was able to side with, and fight alongside a werewolf pack, and then turn around and say that players can never, ever side with werewolves, or that the lore would be broken to allow the possibility of werewolf allies. 

[Angrywolves]

werewolves were being controlled in a sense by the Lady and stayed mostly in that one area..
Can't compare them to darkspawn that came close to eradicating all life in Thedas and have been relentless.
The lore is that darkspawn are evil incarnate.
No way anyone can say otherwise.:innocent:

Modifié par Angrywolves, 27 décembre 2013 - 03:41 .

[CybAnt1]

I like Spirit companions, Demons, not so much.

Of course, I think even with the Tears in the Veil, they still will require somebody's body on our side of the Fade (and at this point someone other than Anders).

We've had the Spirit of Justice/Vengeance.

Since we're on an Inquisition, it might be appropriate to have someone possessed by the Spirit of Faith. That would be real cool.

[Vortex13]

Angrywolves wrote...

werewolves were being controlled in a sense by the Lady and stayed mostly in that one area..
Can't compare them to darkspawn that came close to eradicating all life in Thedas and have been relentless.
The lore is that darkspawn are evil incarnate.
No way anyone can say otherwise.:innocent:

Regular Darkspawn, and the majority of the Awakened yes, but there was the Messenger. I know that one good deed does not redeem an entire race, but it has been Bioware's signature to include the one unique "special snowflake" (if the term suits you) character; one that stands completely at odds with the rest of their race and/or challenges established pre-conceptions of said race or faction.

Wrex was the one Krogen that we met that wasn't a mindless brute, he was looking for ways to save his people when the overwhelming majority simply wanted to be mercenaries for hire. Shale, was one of only golems that had free will and the capability to speak; minus the paragon of course. Legion was the one Geth that could speak, and was the only platform that was interested in seeking outside aid. Javik was the one surviving Prothean. The Grand Oak was the one Sylvan that actually could be reasoned with. Justice was the one spirit that was pulled out of the Fade. The Messenger was the one Awakened that wanted to help the player.

And those are just a few examples from two recent Bioware titles; the use of unique characters has been a staple of their story telling for nearly every one of their games.

I don't want to debate the logistics of an Awakened companion again; we know that by default the Taint is deadly. I am speaking more of the non-human companions and allies in general (which demons, and Awakened fall under). I mean why would the writers ever show us instances where we could ally with Werewolves, or deal with Sylvans, or accpet the help of Awakened, if they never wanted to explore the possibility of having such creatures as allies in the first place?

If they only wanted players to view the Darkspawn as mindless, evil monsters; that any form of alliance was impossible; then why show us the Awakened as Darkspawn capable of independent thought? Why show us one Awakened that wanted to help the player, if the writers only wanted the Darkspawn to be viewed as enemies to be killed? 

[dragonflight288]

I don't want either as a companion. A darkspawn would eventually corrupt a non-warden player and all party members, whether they are awakened or not, darkspawn corrupt and destroy everything, even the land, by their mere presence. And a demon is the embodiment of a virtue or a vice with an excessive interest in mortals, and wants to experience the mortal world through possession.

Although it would be very interesting if we had a situation of an inverse Anders/Justice. Just as Justice became Vengeance after possessing Anders, I think the reverse may also be possible and have a Desire Demon actually become Love, a benevolent spirit. It would take very exceptional circumstances and I wouldn't summon demons to try and figure out how to do it, but it would be very interesting to see happen.

[Kali073]

Honestly, I don't care if there is some minimal, puny little loophole that could maybe make it possible for us to have a darkspawn companion - I wouldn't want it. No way, no how.... never. That's pretty much my entire opinion on the subject. I guess I could go into why I don't want to, but other people have already brought up the most relevant points.

[Toasted Llama]

Angrywolves wrote...

The aliens from the alien movie series.I doubt would /could be allies.
You can't and shouldn't want all monsters /beasts/hostile aliens to automatically become benevolent and become allies just because some players might like it or want it.
It's not realistic in a rpg fantasy sense..Oh Sauron becomes a good guy.
Kefka, Kuja and Sephiroth become good guys.
The shark from Jaws becomes flipper and turns to carrying people around on its back instead of eating them.

shrugs.

Unlikely to be that way in a fantasy rpg.

Legion, the geth, krogans, turians, the control and synthesis ending, Saren, the Leviathan, the Messenger, the Architect and Loghain say hi!

Oh, and considering the ME multiplayer was somewhat canon/story related: the collector multiplayer character says hi!

[General TSAR]

ME Multiplayer is NOT canon.

[Toasted Llama]

General TSAR wrote...

ME Multiplayer is NOT canon.

Proof?

It's definitely debatable as MP gets mentioned in the SP.

[Ziegrif]

General TSAR wrote...

ME Multiplayer is NOT canon.

That's not for you to decide.
MEMP has an impact on SP due to the war resources.
There's also mentions of the collector faction and MP characters can be seen in the Citadel DLC and they have conversations.

They even explain why the goddamn Multiplayer store is so assbackwards and Volus are mentioned fighting on the front lines.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 27 décembre 2013 - 03:43 .

[General TSAR]

Ziegrif wrote...

That's not for you to decide.
MEMP has an impact on SP due to the war resources.
There's also mentions of the collector faction and MP characters can be seen in the Citadel DLC and they have conversations.

They even explain why the goddamn Multiplayer store is so assbackwards and Volus are mentioned fighting on the front lines.

Easter eggs, logistical problems (Palaven Command, why you send winter gear to moon?), and breaking canon: "We are not physically capable so we rely on the Turians for defense"
..................
"LOL JK" said the Volus troopers carrying Krogan Shotguns and Geth Sniper rifles.

But I digress.

Darkspawn poison even the Earth, how do you expect a Darkspawn companion not to poison your companions?

Some nonsensical spell or something?

Modifié par General TSAR, 27 décembre 2013 - 04:13 .

[Ziegrif]

General TSAR wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

That's not for you to decide.
MEMP has an impact on SP due to the war resources.
There's also mentions of the collector faction and MP characters can be seen in the Citadel DLC and they have conversations.

They even explain why the goddamn Multiplayer store is so assbackwards and Volus are mentioned fighting on the front lines.

Easter eggs and breaking canon: "We are not physically capable so we rely on the Turians"
..................
"LOL JK" said the Volus troopers carrying Krogan Shotguns and Geth Sniper rifles.

The weapons the Volus use are actually smaller in size than the regular versions of said guns for example the ones you mentioned the Claymore and the Javelin. So in other words the Volus use weapons specifically made for them. The other short comings are patched with tech. They have shield boost after all.

Also Tali a Quarian can also use the Claymore and as I remember she wasn't much of a beef cake.

Also a stereotype of a people does not mandate the abilities of an individual. There can be very highly trained Volus combatants because they chose to train themselves and invest the money to get better armor, custom sized weapons and shields good enough to withstand a missile to the face.

A demon or an Awakened Darkspawn has the chance to change their alingment if they have the freedom to do so as did the messenger. They may also ally themselves with the inquisition for a time if it benefits them which basically seems like the only way to have the Darkspawn ally with the PC as you mentioned they poison the earth and people around them, so limited exposure only. Or they just retcon it. Or the awakened join the Gray Wardens for gigglies.

We can only speculate though. It's at the whim of the writers on what they decide to do.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 27 décembre 2013 - 04:30 .

[Star fury]

General TSAR wrote...

ME Multiplayer is NOT canon.

Wait, you don't like badass volus warriors and biotic gods? Vorcha fighting alongside asari and humans? Collectors fighting in N7 teams against Reapers?

[General TSAR]

Doesn't explain how they can absorb the recoil with their flabby bodies or why the manufacturers wasted resources scaling down their weaponry for a race that is physically incapable of being frontline groundpounders.

But again digress.

Also there are few fully intelligent darkspawn, they are a species controlled by their hive mind not unlike ants with more autonomous ground commanders leading the horde and they all carry the taint which poisons EVERYTHING.

They are a Chemical Hazard to eveything and there's nothing that can stop the taint.

Star fury wrote...
Wait, you don't like badass volus warriors and biotic gods? Vorcha fighting alongside asari and humans? Collectors fighting in N7 teams against Reapers?

No I don't.

I care way too much for the canon which is why I'm being such a ass about it and Darkspawn buddies. 

I can accept them being auxiliary troops armed with pistols and SMGs guarding an outpost or ship but not Special Forces wielding Claymores and such. 

Modifié par General TSAR, 27 décembre 2013 - 04:44 .

[Star fury]

General TSAR wrote...

No I don't.

I care way too much for the canon.

You will be heartbroken when EAware will make a ME MMORPG and destroy the lore.

[Ziegrif]

General TSAR wrote...

Doesn't explain how they can absorb the recoil with their flabby bodies or why the manufacturers wasted resources scaling down their weaponry for a race that is physically incapable of being frontline groundpounders.

Why did they get specialized weapons with recoil adjusted to them and size scaled down?
Now this might shock you.
But.
HERE COMES TEH MONEEEEEEEY!! 

General TSAR wrote...
Also there are few fully intelligent darkspawn, they are a species controlled by their hivemind with more autonomous ground commanders leading the horde.

The messenger was happy doing his own thing after he got his freedom.

General TSAR wrote...
They are a Chemical Hazard to eveything and there's nothing that can stop the taint.

Yup. Until the writers apply some phlebotium into that problem.

General TSAR wrote...
No I don't.
I care way too much for the canon.

OOOOOOH!
So you're one of those no fun allowed types.

[General TSAR]

Odd reasoning since retooling factories to churn out scaled down weapons during a galactic genocide is massive waste of time and energy especially for a species that can't even take cover in firefights.

Also recoil adjustment and scaled down size == less penetrating power and accuracy.

The messenger was happy doing his own thing after he got his freedom.

Good for it, now it can murder and poison whatever it touches at its own discretion.

OOOOOOH!
So you're one of those no fun allowed types.

I wish, I enjoy the MP wish they could have distanced it from SP.

Hell I wish SP kept the canon, how does Tali not break off her wrist while using the claymore?

Star fury wrote...

You will be heartbroken when EAware will make a ME MMORPG and destroy the lore.

Indeed, I'm gonna eat ice cream in the tub and hug my TIM pillow while I cry myself to sleep. 

Modifié par General TSAR, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:01 .

[daveliam]

I really, really don't want this to happen. This sounds like a gimmick and is just not interesting to me. I'd much rather a second dwarf or qunari over a talking darkspawn.

Dog, Legion, Shale, and Justice just sat back at camp/on the ship in all quests except those which furthered their character development. Otherwise, I never use these gimmicky companions.

Modifié par daveliam, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:06 .