201 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziegrif]

General TSAR wrote...

Odd reasoning since retooling factories to churn out scaled down weapons during a galactic genocide is massive waste of time and energy especially for a species that can't even take cover in firefights.

Also recoil adjustment and scaled down size == less penetrating power and accuracy.

The messenger was happy doing his own thing after he got his freedom.

Good for it, now it can murder and poison whatever it touches at its own discretion.

OOOOOOH!
So you're one of those no fun allowed types.

I wish, I enjoy the MP wish they could have distanced it from SP.

Hell I wish SP kept the canon, how does Tali not break off her wrist while using the claymore?

Star fury wrote...

You will be heartbroken when EAware will make a ME MMORPG and destroy the lore.

Indeed, I'm gonna eat ice cream in the tub and hug my TIM pillow while I cry myself to sleep. 

I was expecting a much more hostile response.

But I think the Volus got their guns because they outsourced them with enough money something like retooling guns at any time (especially war time) should be possible. Course we can only speculate on this part but money makes the Galaxy go round. There's also the fact that 2 Volus are UR cards meaning there ain't too many Volus rolling around if we apply basic logic.

Also I remember seeing somewhere that the ME3 Claymore is a retooled version that was powered down from the ME2 version so it could actually be sold on normal markets. But that was from the ME3 Wiki which isn't a credible source all the time.

Lore grows and develops and changes constantly. You'll feel much better when you stop caring about the little stuff. For example I've been invested in the Elder Scrolls lore since Morrowind and that series has Dragon Breaks which basically translate to a RETCON LOL tool for the writers. Stop worrying and go with the flow. You'll have less gray hairs if you do so.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:11 .

[General TSAR]

Out of curiosity how are those characters gimmicky (minus Legion)?

[General TSAR]

Ziegrif wrote...
I was expecting a much more hostile response.

What can I say? I'm full of surprises. 

But I think the Volus got their guns because they outsourced them with enough money something like retooling guns at any time (especially war time) should be possible. Course we can only speculate on this part but money makes the Galaxy go round. There's also the fact that 2 Volus are UR cards meaning there ain't too many Volus rolling around if we apply basic logic.

A fair point I guess, still I rather them be auxiliares carrying utilitarian weapons then Special Forces.

Also I remember seeing somewhere that the ME3 Claymore is a retooled version that was powered down from the ME2 version so it could actually be sold on normal markets. But that was from the ME3 Wiki which isn't a credible source all the time.

Still a bit fishy.

Lore grows and develops and changes constantly. You'll feel much better when you stop caring about the little stuff. For example I've been invested in the Elder Scrolls lore since Morrowind and that series has Dragon Breaks which basically translate to a RETCON LOL tool for the writers. Stop worrying and go with the flow. You'll have less gray hairs if you do so.

Oh yeah, bloody M'aiq: "Dragons? Oh, they're everywhere! You must fly very high to see most of them, though. The ones nearer the ground are very hard to see, being invisible."

Still I rather not have internal contradictions, it kills the lore and my enjoyment as I am one of those nitpicky players.

Modifié par General TSAR, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:21 .

[daveliam]

General TSAR wrote...

Out of curiosity how are those characters gimmicky (minus Legion)?

I find them gimmicky because their defining characteristic is "Other".  I think they don't bring much else to the story other than being a "different" type of companion.  I would have much preferred Shale as an actual dwarf rather than a sentient golem (the only one, btw, who acts this way).  Dog was fine, but I hated how he took a companion spot.  Justice was a possessed talking corpse.  If Justice can possess a living person (Anders), why not just have Kristoff as the companion instead of zombie.  Again, the only time we've seen this in the series.  It reads too much of "special snowflake" companions who act different from the other ones of their type.

Modifié par daveliam, 27 décembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[Vortex13]

daveliam wrote...

General TSAR wrote...

Out of curiosity how are those characters gimmicky (minus Legion)?

I find them gimmicky because their defining characteristic is "Other".  I think they don't bring much else to the story other than being a "different" type of companion.  I would have much preferred Shale as an actual dwarf rather than a sentient golem (the only one, btw, who acts this way).  Dog was fine, but I hated how he took a companion spot.  Justice was a possessed talking corpse.  If Justice can possess a living person (Anders), why not just have Kristoff as the companion instead of zombie.  Again, the only time we've seen this in the series.  It reads too much of "special snowflake" companions who act different from the other ones of their type.

I am the opposite, I actually prefered the 'special snowflake' companions. The troupe that any thing that is not easily identifiable with human aspects = bad, is very shallow and annoying IMO. Also the notion that every single creature we encounter being excatly like all of the other creatures of that species/race/whatever, is very limiting in the story (again IMO).

[Ziegrif]

General TSAR wrote...
Oh yeah, bloody M'aiq: "Dragons? Oh, they're everywhere! You must fly very high to see most of them, though. The ones nearer the ground are very hard to see, being invisible."

Mai'q the liar is the only person that tells the truth.
If not now, eventually it will be the truth.

I'm expecting lots of Argonians called Im-Leet and Nords called Rolf The Uber in the Elder Scrolls Online game.

[Toasted Llama]

Anyway, I can definitely see Bioware pull a darkspawn ally on us, considering what they've done before.

[In Exile]

Toasted Llama wrote...
Didn't miss it, but we're on the third game now, couple of years later (as in, at least a decade later). Still no sign of an awakend darkspawn repeating the actions of that insane broodmother.

Man, that would totally be a valid point if blights happened every few years instead of every centuries. If it takes 50 years for an Awakend darkspawn to go insane and do what the Mother did, then suddenly the Awakened are four times the threat that the Blights would be to Thedas.

Yet there's the Messenger. Explain him, besides saying "oh he's just an exception!"  because then there could be more exceptions anyway.

Wow, it's almost like I said "overwhelming" evidence and not "all of the evidence". And there could be more exceptions. Your retort, apparently, is that there could be "more" exceptions. So what? There could be another 50 Messengers. That's barely enough to form a raiding party. 

 Well they are taking their sweet ass time to do it... So before or after demons overrun the place and then become an event every so many years?

So your only reply to this is... the Awakened darkspawn haven't been seen raping women - except for what we saw was being done in DA:A - so obviously they're moral paragons we should ally with immediately? 

Well, duhh. Throwing regular soldiers at darkspawn  has proven to be very ineffective anyway. Also might want to add that  entire Ferelden was still recovering from... Uhh... Oh I don't know... A blight maybe?

A blight that didn't reach Amaranthine, firstly, and secondly, yes, it is recovering from a blight. So why again are you in favour of doing everything possible to create an eternal one that can't be stopped? 

Again, I am not saying that one benevolent darkspawn means that every single darkspawn can be benevolent. I am saying that there might be other exceptions like him. Vaughn may not mean that every human is an insane rapist, but it certainly means that there are a rare few of them. Or do you really honestly think that Vaughn is the only insane rapist in all Thedas?

This point, again, is meaningless. Yes, there could be more exceptions. That doesn't mean there will be a society of exceptions that covers all darkspawn, that means it wouldn't be completely insane to do anything other than exterminate the threat right now. 

I'm not calling you out for saying the Messenger is possible an OK character, or there could be more like him. I'm calling you out for the absurd idea that the darkspawn could possibly co-exist with anything not-darkspawn, or that making them intelligent somehow makes them less of a threat to all living things without literally headcannon magic like all of the darkspawn suddenly turn into complete saints and magic cures the taint forever and all time. 

Again; if and only IF there are benevolent darkspawn (again, not all darkspawn) and then another IF and only IF they can be altered in some way, then I'd consider it could be a way of permanently getting rid of the blight as well as serve as a companion. Which is the main point anyway.

This isn't an argument. Let's play it out. Suppose that there are 40 "good" darkspawn. They're moral paragons: they're utterly dedicated to the genocide of their own race, will kill every "bad" darskpawn they see, will actively refuse to rape to create more darkspawn, and have magic powers to stop the taint. 

How, in any way or shape or form, does this provide a way of "getting rid of the blight"? You have hundred of thousands of "bad" darkspawn out there that you're going to have to kill. 

All that you're really saying is that you think that Awakened like the Messenger shouldn't be executed if you can prevent the taint (which you couldn't even do in DA:A, so congrats on creating some ghouls who'll go into the Deep Roads to be chewed on and raped into abominations). 

[In Exile]

Toasted Llama wrote...
There could be testing if there a benevolent awakened darkspawn.

And how are you going to do that? There isn't a way to test if there are benevolent humans, and we've been warring and killing each other since the dawn of our existence. How exactly are you going to turn darkspawn into what are basically angels? 

Because it's not enough for darkspawn to be "just like us" - if they have our moral compass then co-existence is impossible. 

And Grey Wardens are only their greatest military threat because they can definitely kill an archdemon. With the awakened leading the darkspawn instead of the archdemon, this is basically useless.

And your plan is to activley help make more of them? 

Oh well that makes it so much better! *ahem* Especially because ghouls can become broodmothers if things turn out really bad.

Yeah, being a female GW is... bad. 

[Nightdragon8]

lol this thread is funny, people arguing wither or not to save a race of being which sole way of reproduceing is force feeding women to become broodmothers so they can eat PEOPLE and pump out 1000''s and 1000's of darkspawn...

cosidering the rate of birth and yes death as they do eat there own, its only a matter of time before they run out of food or space to grow underground. so that will force to either

1. leave the underground and start hunting and living outside the underground which we know is a bad thing for all live above ground. or
2. dig more and more tunnels until it hits a large city and effectvly pulling a city underground which again, is really bad as they will be killing 1000's of people in a accedent.

Sorry to say, there is no way no how no matter how I want a darkspawn near me, much less a compaionion. Just having it bleed on you can kill you. Sorry no,

Also the darkspawn is already an eternal war, considering at least for Drawves its eternal, the surfacers are the lucky ones in that they get large breaks between darkspawn blights.

Yes there may be a few smart ones that don't really want to fight, but seriously the long term implications of darkspawn is grim no matter what happens.

[Angrywolves]

true that.
Darkpawn can never become companions.

[Nightdragon8]

the only way a 'darkspawn' can really become a companion is if there is some serious magic voodoo to remove the taint, at which point its really not a darkspawn anymore.anyway.

[In Exile]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
cosidering the rate of birth and yes death as they do eat there own, its only a matter of time before they run out of food or space to grow underground. so that will force to either
 

In fairness to the other side, darkspawn don't need to eat to survive. They live off the taint. 

[Toasted Llama]

In Exile, your ignorance and incapability to read what is written instead of what you want to read is so great, I'm not even going to bother to reply to you anymore.

[Lluthren]

No. No darkspawn for you!
No demons either, why would a demon want to close the tear in the veil if it means they can inhabit the mortal world without possessing anybody?

[General TSAR]

In Exile wrote...

In fairness to the other side, darkspawn don't need to eat to survive. They live off the taint. 

Don't they eat the flesh of the vanquished?

[Vortex13]

Lluthren wrote...

No. No darkspawn for you!
No demons either, why would a demon want to close the tear in the veil if it means they can inhabit the mortal world without possessing anybody?

There could be several reasons why a Demon would assist the player. The Veil tear might let them wander Thedas at whim, but a more pragmatic demon could realize that if the demonic invasion succeeds then there will not be anymore mortals to toy with or enjoy.

From what we have seen of demons in the previous titles, they only seek to kill every single person they come across. The select few demons that weren't immediately trying to kill everything in sight, realized that by preserving mortal lives, they could actually enjoy and experience the mortal world. It wouldn't be a huge stretch of the imagination to suppose that a possible demon companion would see the actions of its kin as too destructive, and only by preventing the demonic invasion could it preserve its playthings. Working with the player wouldn't have to equate to the character being a 'good guy', the demon could simply have goals that coincide with the player; it can always look for methods of maintaining its presence in Thedas after it has stopped all of its mindless brethren from killing everything.

Another alternative could be something like a Werewolf or Sylvan; a wolf or tree possessed by a demon; wanting to work with the player to defend its holdings. A demon that has inhabited a tree and set up its own powerbase; much like the Grand Oak in DA:O; would (IMO) by very open to the possibility of co-operation with the player, especially if the invading demons were threatening its seed. 

Such a character could also be willing to work with the player because of a motivation to remove the 'upstarts' from its domain. Think about it, a demon that possessed the tree and set up its powerbase; like the Grand Oak; would have had to devote many, many years to carefully build up its power, and now all of these 'younger' demons are pouring through the Veil tears are coming across and enjoying the benefits of the mortal world WITHOUT having to work at it like it did. It would be a rather shallow, 'get off my lawn!' motivation granted, but this is demons we are talking about here, they have shown to be incredibly petty in various scenarios.  

[In Exile]

General TSAR wrote...

Don't they eat the flesh of the vanquished?

Yes, but DG says that's to terrify their enemies, not because of biological need. 

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
From what we have seen of demons in the previous titles, they only seek to kill every single person they come across.

That's not true. We've seen numerous desire demons try the opposite - possession and toying with mages and non-mages alike. The sloth demon certainly toyed with people - but it was implied heavily to be the equvialent of a lunch for it. 

The end result is people dying, but you make it sound like they're just out to kill for killing's sake. 

Working with the player wouldn't have to equate to the character being a 'good guy', the demon could simply have goals that coincide with the player; it can always look for methods of maintaining its presence in Thedas after it has stopped all of its mindless brethren from killing everything.

To add to that, we've seen demons willingly cooperate with the protagonist on a smaller scale before in both DA:O and DA2. It was just at the Desire level.

Such a character could also be willing to work with the player because of a motivation to remove the 'upstarts' from its domain. Think about it, a demon that possessed the tree and set up its powerbase; like the Grand Oak; would have had to devote many, many years to carefully build up its power, and now all of these 'younger' demons are pouring through the Veil tears are coming across and enjoying the benefits of the mortal world WITHOUT having to work at it like it did. It would be a rather shallow, 'get off my lawn!' motivation granted, but this is demons we are talking about here, they have shown to be incredibly petty in various scenarios.  

Not that I disagree with you, but I do think that this motivation can't work for a companion. I imagine you're thinking ally rather than companion though. Still, IMO, a demon companion needs to have a more interesting story that something that's so... local.

Modifié par In Exile, 30 décembre 2013 - 04:21 .

[Vortex13]

In Exile wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...
From what we have seen of demons in the previous titles, they only seek to kill every single person they come across.

That's not true. We've seen numerous desire demons try the opposite - possession and toying with mages and non-mages alike. The sloth demon certainly toyed with people - but it was implied heavily to be the equvialent of a lunch for it. 

The end result is people dying, but you make it sound like they're just out to kill for killing's sake. 

That's true, though the most common demon we run into seems to be of the Rage variety, and they pretty much attack everything on sight. A demon more intrested in toying with mortals though might be inclined to help the player if only so they can 'play' in peace.

Working with the player wouldn't have to equate to the character being a 'good guy', the demon could simply have goals that coincide with the player; it can always look for methods of maintaining its presence in Thedas after it has stopped all of its mindless brethren from killing everything.

In Exile wrote...

To add to that, we've seen demons willingly cooperate with the protagonist on a smaller scale before in both DA:O and DA2. It was just at the Desire level.

Don't forget the Grand Oak; I am of the opinon that he was a Sloth Demon.

Granted his part was small, but I remain convinced that should the invasion threaten his holdings; his seed; he could be spurred into action. A Sylvan companion would be streaching it a bit, granted (even though it would be awesome); but if he was able to control the forest enough to only allow the werewolves passage into it's depths, imagine what he could do with it against agressive invaders.

Such a character could also be willing to work with the player because of a motivation to remove the 'upstarts' from its domain. Think about it, a demon that possessed the tree and set up its powerbase; like the Grand Oak; would have had to devote many, many years to carefully build up its power, and now all of these 'younger' demons are pouring through the Veil tears are coming across and enjoying the benefits of the mortal world WITHOUT having to work at it like it did. It would be a rather shallow, 'get off my lawn!' motivation granted, but this is demons we are talking about here, they have shown to be incredibly petty in various scenarios.  

In Exile wrote...

Not that I disagree with you, but I do think that this motivation can't work for a companion. I imagine you're thinking ally rather than companion though. Still, IMO, a demon companion needs to have a more interesting story that something that's so... local.

Allies, Agents, I'll take whatever I can get lol. 

A demon or darkspawn might not be very conductive to a full fledged companion (though I do still think it's possible), but allies of circumstance is not only possible, but has happened in the past. I just want some variety in my choice of allies. I've said it before, if the Veil tear is truely world threatening, then I would expect the entire world to want to do something about it, not just the humans, elves, dwarves, or qunari.

Like ME 3, the humans and turians might have had more military prowess then the other races like the elcor, or hanar, but that didn't stop the less combat capable races from providing aid.

[In Exile]

Vortex13 wrote...
That's true, though the most common demon we run into seems to be of the Rage variety, and they pretty much attack everything on sight. A demon more intrested in toying with mortals though might be inclined to help the player if only so they can 'play' in peace.

On the latter part of your post, probably, but that's just the nature of demons. And someone like Justice only agreeing to help you if they get to smite the wicked isn't less of a request to 'play' in peace; their play is just more socially acceptable. 

On the former part, Rage demons are supposed to be brutal and stupid. IQ goes up as you go up the chain. Which is why the demons of Despair are going to be pretty interesting if they're in-game. I want one of those as an ally (though my favoured crackpot theory is that the Inquisitor is actually a demon possessing a corpse; hence why you could 'let the world burn' so to speak).

Don't forget the Grand Oak; I am of the opinon that he was a Sloth Demon.  

Me too. 

Granted his part was small, but I remain convinced that should the invasion threaten his holdings; his seed; he could be spurred into action. A Sylvan companion would be streaching it a bit, granted (even though it would be awesome); but if he was able to control the forest enough to only allow the werewolves passage into it's depths, imagine what he could do with it against agressive invaders.

Sylvan companions would be difficult for technical reasons. I'm just saying I prefer an exotic companion to an ally.

A demon or darkspawn might not be very conductive to a full fledged companion (though I do still think it's possible), but allies of circumstance is not only possible, but has happened in the past. I just want some variety in my choice of allies. I've said it before, if the Veil tear is truely world threatening, then I would expect the entire world to want to do something about it, not just the humans, elves, dwarves, or qunari.

I think demons work just fine. Bioware literally did it before in Jade Empire. You even get to pick if you want the demon in your party or not. Though in that case I suppose it was a bit more like an abomination scenario where you can side with the demon. I'm just very anti-darkspawn. 

Like ME 3, the humans and turians might have had more military prowess then the other races like the elcor, or hanar, but that didn't stop the less combat capable races from providing aid. 

I'm not disagreeing with you there. 

[Orian Tabris]

Desire Demon companion for LI, or GTFO, BioWare!

[Rotward]

Osena109 wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

The only way I could see a Darkspawn as a companion is that you sided with the Architect and one of his guys joined the Inquisitor.

in my game the Architect is dead he hade to die in my book

Eh, I can see that, but I chose to keep him alive. I played an elf mage, and at the time, wasn't to sad to see humans being slaughtered. That's always going to be my cannon: the one who didn't really want the blight stopped. 

[In Exile]

Rotward wrote...
Eh, I can see that, but I chose to keep him alive. I played an elf mage, and at the time, wasn't to sad to see humans being slaughtered. That's always going to be my cannon: the one who didn't really want the blight stopped. 

You do know where Shrieks come from, right? 

[Rotward]

In Exile wrote...

Rotward wrote...
Eh, I can see that, but I chose to keep him alive. I played an elf mage, and at the time, wasn't to sad to see humans being slaughtered. That's always going to be my cannon: the one who didn't really want the blight stopped. 

You do know where Shrieks come from, right? 

From elven broodmothers. So? I was stuck in a tower my whole life, I didn't have any reason to care about other elves.