67 réponses à ce sujet

[Conduit0]

I would say the possibility is very slim, but not nonexistent. Seeing as Bioware aren't against doing a toolkit, its simply a matter of time and budget constraints that will prevent them from doing one. So its possible that if the game is successful enough it will justify the time and money to develop a toolkit.

[Eternal Phoenix]

codenamesource wrote...

No I hope they spend time on dlc in place of a toolkit or whatever

You mean like another DLC like Golems of Ammarak? i.e the DLC you play and never play again?

So you would prefer crappy 40 minute DLC that most people will only ever place once over a toolset that will bring unlimited hours to the game?



I don't think it's going to happen but of course I would like a toolset.

And no one said that spending time on a toolset would deduct time from other resources. We're speaking hypothetically here too. Is the toolset more important than the game? Obviously not but a toolset will always be better than crappy day one DLC.

[Fast Jimmy]

Conduit0 wrote...

I would say the possibility is very slim, but not nonexistent. Seeing as Bioware aren't against doing a toolkit, its simply a matter of time and budget constraints that will prevent them from doing one. So its possible that if the game is successful enough it will justify the time and money to develop a toolkit.

It's not "simply matter of time and money." 

Bioware uses tools they don't own to make their games now, which was not the case in DA:O. They would have to come to some sort of agreement to license out these tools (at great expense, I am sure, given that even one tool software license can cost hundreds, of not thousands, of dollars and Bioware may be using a dozen). 

In addition, Frostbite is an engine that was actually designed to only be designed and coded for with propreitary software that DICE developed. EA/DICE would not want to let that software out to the public and other competitors in the industry.

Sure, Bioware could put lots of time and money into buying third party licenses to lose money on each PC game sold, or create an entirely new set of tools that they would own and not use, just to include a toolkit, but those tools would be highly untested and unitegrated... unless, of course, Bioware were to spend even more time and money polishing tools they would never use just so players could.

So, in that regard, it is "simply a matter of time and money" but that's a gross simplification, like solving world hunger or building a moon base are "simply a matter of time and money" as well. Yeah, its true in the most basic sense possible, but it also is an explanation that completely disregards some very unique and crucial roadblocks and obstacles to the goal you are discussing. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 décembre 2013 - 04:36 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Considering that mods make them zero money ....no.

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

It's not "simply matter of time and money." 

Bioware uses tools they don't own to make their games now, which was not the case in DA:O. They would have to come to some sort of agreement to license out these tools (at great expense, I am sure, given that even one tool software license can cost hundreds, of not thousands, of dollars and Bioware may be using a dozen). 

In addition, Frostbite is an engine that was actually designed to only be designed and coded for with propreitary software that DICE developed. EA/DICE would not want to let that software out to the public and other competitors in the industry.

Sure, Bioware could put lots of time and money into buying third party licenses to lose money on each PC game sold, or create an entirely new set of tools that they would own and not use, just to include a toolkit, but those tools would be highly untested and unitegrated... unless, of course, Bioware were to spend even more time and money polishing tools they would never use just so players could.

So, in that regard, it is "simply a matter of time and money" but that's a gross simplification, like solving world hunger or building a moon base are "simply a matter of time and money" as well. Yeah, its true in the most basic sense possible, but it also is an explanation that completely disregards some very unique and crucial roadblocks and obstacles to the goal you are discussing. 

I agree.  I recently picked up BioShock Infinite and on startup you see the icons for Unreal, Wwise Audio Pipeline, AMD, AutoDesk Gameware, Bink Video Player, and Nvidia Physx.  Those are just the ones that have icons on the startup, if I paid more attention to the text below there are probably others.  Its not just taking the time to make the toolkit, but to develop the tools that they spend money on to develop their internal devkits. 

I did a Google search for WWise Audio Pipeline and the cheapest license I found was $600 per seat and it would cost an additional $600 per seat for 12 months of DLC and that price is based on a production value of up to $150,000.  Of course they could always remove that from the toolkit, but how many issues can that cause within the game itself? Would that mean if you use a mod a player made that all audio would have to be disabled for the entire game or just when interacting with the player made mod? 

Edit:

I just noticed that Wwise only charges to companies and is free for students to learn with, but when making mods is that educational or something else?

Modifié par Sanunes, 08 décembre 2013 - 05:04 .

[Sanunes]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Considering that mods make them zero money ....no.

Actually mods extend the life of the game and that means there probably would be more DLC (and expansion if they make it sales) so it does make them money.

[Fast Jimmy]

I just noticed that Wwise only charges to companies and is free for students to learn with, but when making mods is that educational or something else?

I'd say "something else." Let's not forget - this is an ancillary selling point for an entertainment product. People are asking for toolkits because they want them and would be more willing to give Bioware money for their game if they were included. While a toolkit can teach someone about how a game is developed, that is really more of a side effect than anything else. Bioware's ultimate goal in including the toolkit isn't education - it's to sell more units by having a fewture many gamers want and to extend the life of a game and, in turn, keep people playing it months or yesrs down the ojne, so their interest in the series keeps strong and they can sell future products, like DLC, expacks or sequels.

I'm not sure that Wwise would consider that education. At least not enough to give away free versions of their products by the millions. And, even if they did, that would be one third party vendor out of many - all of whom may have their own requirements and loopholes to jump through, not to mention price tags.

If you want the base game to be made with the best tools possible, that means forgoing a tookit roght now. Whether that's good, bad or indifferent isn't for me to say, but it is the truth.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 08 décembre 2013 - 05:31 .

[Sanunes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I just noticed that Wwise only charges to companies and is free for students to learn with, but when making mods is that educational or something else?

I'd say "something else." Let's not forget - this is an ancillary selling point for an entertainment product. People are asking for toolkits because they want them and would be more willing to give Bioware money for their game if they were included. While a toolkit can teach someone about how a game is developed, that is really more of a side effect than anything else. Bioware's ultimate goal in including the toolkit isn't education - it's to sell more units by having a fewture many gamers want and to extend the life of a game and, in turn, keep people playing it months or yesrs down the ojne, so their interest in the series keeps strong and they can sell future products, like DLC, expacks or sequels.

I'm not sure that Wwise would consider that education. At least not enough to give away free versions of their products by the millions. And, even if they did, that would be one third party vendor out of many - all of whom may have their own requirements and loopholes to jump through, not to mention price tags.

If you want the base game to be made with the best tools possible, that means forgoing a tookit roght now. Whether that's good, bad or indifferent isn't for me to say, but it is the truth.

The other thing I thought of after reading your post is some software companies require proof that you are currently enrolled in an educational program as well, I remember when I was in college I had to email a company a copy of my Student ID before they would sell me at an educational price or go through the college itself.

I do agree with your last sentence as well, for BioWare makes games not audio software so it could take them twice as long to make something that isn't as good because its not where their talents are.

Modifié par Sanunes, 08 décembre 2013 - 05:51 .

[slimgrin]

No. EA doesn't like mods. It means free content.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Last time somebody tried to mod Frostbite, men in white suits showed up at their door and they weren't seen again until eight months later, crouching on the street and muttering incoherent nonsense with no money or any idea who or where they were.

[HiroVoid]

Yes! I know Bioware won't let us down in this area!

[Ponendus]

I really really hope so. Really really really hope so. Alot.

[Lara Denton]

 Unfortunately, no. 

[UC SIM]

I think there will be a group of people who attempt at making their own toolsets. for legality they need permission from bioware/dice but they might attempt before attaining that too; reasons being that most companies with mod toolsets written by 3rd party without permission have not been hounded in the past. Hey they might even get the permission for it as well. Whether they succeed is another matter.

In the past it was much easier to take something from the game apart and rebuild it than it is now, which is essentially the challenge they would have. Rebuilding a application that allows the manipulation of game files ect.

[TurretSyndrome]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Last time somebody tried to mod Frostbite, men in white suits showed up at their door and they weren't seen again until eight months later, crouching on the street and muttering incoherent nonsense with no money or any idea who or where they were.

Is that what happened to 38 Studios? 

[SwoopIM]

I'm with you. Mods made DAO, which was great, even better. Hope Bioware works that in for their loyal fan base.

[Bfler]

No. Everything else is unrealistic thinking.

[ShaggyWolf]

I really hope there is a toolset but I highly doubt there will be.

[Angrywolves]

I don't know why they don't just charge for mod kits. Come up with a reasonable price and charge for it. Or kickstarter it. That way it wouldn't cost any money that couldn't be recouped.

[ghostzodd]

Angrywolves wrote...

I don't know why they don't just charge for mod kits. Come up with a reasonable price and charge for it. Or kickstarter it. That way it wouldn't cost any money that couldn't be recouped.

I would not mind paying for a mod kit

[Dutchess]

It will already be a miracle if the game is as moddable as DA2. So, no. I doubt I will even get my hair mods for DA3. :/

[Bizantura]

Give the PC player an advantage!!! Really what are you thinking!!

[MarchWaltz]

I'm happy that we still have Bethesda who actually care about us PC peeps.

You can always trust them.

No toolkit from Bioware, ever again.

[ghostzodd]

renjility wrote...

It will already be a miracle if the game is as moddable as DA2. So, no. I doubt I will even get my hair mods for DA3. :/

We of the PC community are very tenacious we will find  a way

[Wulfram]

Angrywolves wrote...

I don't know why they don't just charge for mod kits. Come up with a reasonable price and charge for it. Or kickstarter it. That way it wouldn't cost any money that couldn't be recouped.

Because not many people would buy it - number of people actually making mods is pretty low, the number of people willing to pay money for it would be lower.  And those people who did would have a (justified) expectation of a decent level of support.  And, though this is irrational, they'd probably be seen as worse than if they did nothing.