243 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

I know how any war against the Qunari can be won, we give them Hawke, they put him in command and he screws everything up and we roll over Par Vollen

[Hellion Rex]

Steelcan wrote...

I know how any war against the Qunari can be won, we give them Hawke, they put him in command and he screws everything up and we roll over Par Vollen

Trust me, the Qunari are anything but stupid. They'd shoot him first, ask questions never.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Qunari were in retreat and had been all but driven from Thedas but the codex actualy goes as far as to state it didn't seem to be their losses that prompted the peace treaty, it was the death of so many Rivaini. I'm actually pretty confident that if the war had continued, the human nations might have been able to drive the Qunari from Kont-aar, but would have failed to take the fight to Par Vollen. They had already been stretched to the breaking point just getting that far.

[Kalak]

JulianWellpit wrote...

Elfman wrote...

I think even for the Tevinters, blood magic's a mixed bag. They can't overdo it on themselves or they die. They can't use it on too many slaves because then you have no slaves. I distinctly remember reading somewhere if they lost the slave trade, Tevinter would fall very quickly.

Add to that the money they might spend on mercenaries and the fate of The Western Roman Empire awaits them.

Eastern Roman Empire's  probably a better comparison.....the Byzantines were able to last quite a long while against the Arabs and Seljuks despite major religious differences with their European neighbors.

[The Elder King]

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I know how any war against the Qunari can be won, we give them Hawke, they put him in command and he screws everything up and we roll over Par Vollen

Trust me, the Qunari are anything but stupid. They'd shoot him first, ask questions never.

Indeed. Or even in the case they find him useful, they'd never put him in charge. They'd likely use him in the same way I think my Shepard would send Grunt against his enemies. Hawke is still pretty good at killing stuff.

[Master Warder Z_]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Qunari were in retreat and had been all but driven from Thedas but the codex actualy goes as far as to state it didn't seem to be their losses that prompted the peace treaty, it was the death of so many Rivaini. I'm actually pretty confident that if the war had continued, the human nations might have been able to drive the Qunari from Kont-aar, but would have failed to take the fight to Par Vollen. They had already been stretched to the breaking point just getting that far.

Possibly, But we would never know and most Qun supports buy into the logic that the Ox Men's massive defeats and losses that led to signing that little accord didn't enter into the agrument, it was as you said the loss of their converts. I personally look at how their logistical situation was just falling apart and how their military was being driven back on every front it was fighting in.

To me it looks like the Late Fall Offensive of 1944  for the Wermacht during the second world war, They were continously being driven back and their situation was just growing bleaker and bleaker by every passing month before that treaty was signed.

I think their war was all but lost by the point that treaty was signed, But that said i personally agree with your assessment laying siege to Par Vollen would have had to have come later, but i do agree that they could drive the Qunari out of their outer provinces and reduce their territory to speck in the middle of nowhere. The war for both sides wasn't looking good by this point but the militaries of Thedas were in damn better shape then those of the Qunari.

[Master Warder Z_]

eluvianix wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

TK514 wrote...

The Qunari didn't lose. They realized their objectives couldn't be met. The Qunari aren't fighting a war of conquest, they're fighting a war of conversion. When the Qunari realized that the Exalted Marches called against them were as busy slaughtering the innocent civilians the Qunari were trying to convert as engaging in battle, they withdrew and accepted a cease fire to reconsider the problem.

Sure and the fact that their Lines across Antiva, Rivain and Nevarra were collapsing at the sametime has nothing to do with the Withdrawl?

Also with them being shoved out of Kirkwall their military might was about spent, According to the Lore and from what i can glean the war was taking massive losses for the armies of Thedas but headway was being made and suddenly the Qunari offer terms of peace and they were taken.

To me? That implies they realized how royally screwed they were once their little loop around strategem via the free marches didn't work.

I disagree. They were losing a crap ton of potential converts during the fighting, and that was part of the reason the Llomeryn Accords were signed. They fought every other nation to a standstill, but withdrew in part because the war was doing nothing for their cause.

Again the fact they were losing the war they started doesn't factor into it huh? 

I suppose i cannot agrue with logic of a religious fanatic as the Qunari because they will always deem whatever failure they encounter into that of a religious setback, not a defeat even when to every one else the truth of the matter is obvious.

[Han Shot First]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@Han Shot First: I really doubt that the qunari are weaker than Orlais and Tevinter, considering that it took the power of all the nations to repel them.
Not to mention the power of their fleet, compared to the weakness of the rest of Thedas's states.

I rank the Qunari lower because of their aversion to magic. For all the discipline and technolical superiority of their armies, that attitude towards magic hamstrings them.

And yet they still hold their own against ALL of the nations that do have magic.

They didn't. They lost.

They might have put up a tough fight, but their offensives were ultimately stopped cold because the factions of Thedas field more mages.

If the Qunari had a more open-minded attitude towards magic they'd probably be the dominant power on the continent, and the Tevinter Imperium would most likely cease to exist. But that reluctance to use magic ultimately gives their military a fatal flaw.

The Qunari didn't lose. They were fought to a standstill, then they accepted the Llomerryn Accord, and drew back their forces from most of mainland Thedas.
This means that the Qunari were fully capable of taking on the combined might of Thedas, and fight it to a standstill.

The Qunari were invaders from outside Thedas who were busy trying to impose their will on the continent beyond Rivain and Seheron. Their offensives ended up being stopped cold, and they eventually were forced to withraw to behind their pre-war borders.

That is a defeat.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 10 décembre 2013 - 11:54 .

[Hellion Rex]

hhh89 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I know how any war against the Qunari can be won, we give them Hawke, they put him in command and he screws everything up and we roll over Par Vollen

Trust me, the Qunari are anything but stupid. They'd shoot him first, ask questions never.

Indeed. Or even in the case they find him useful, they'd never put him in charge. They'd likely use him in the same way I think my Shepard would send Grunt against his enemies. Hawke is still pretty good at killing stuff.

Good point. As that Tamassran said, the Qunari don't waste anything, ever.

[Master Warder Z_]

Han Shot First wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@Han Shot First: I really doubt that the qunari are weaker than Orlais and Tevinter, considering that it took the power of all the nations to repel them.
Not to mention the power of their fleet, compared to the weakness of the rest of Thedas's states.

I rank the Qunari lower because of their aversion to magic. For all the discipline and technolical superiority of their armies, that attitude towards magic hamstrings them.

And yet they still hold their own against ALL of the nations that do have magic.

They didn't. They lost.

They might have put up a tough fight, but their offensives were ultimately stopped cold because the factions of Thedas field more mages.

If the Qunari had a more open-minded attitude towards magic they'd probably be the dominant power on the continent, and the Tevinter Imperium would most likely cease to exist. But that reluctance to use magic ultimately gives their military a fatal flaw.

The Qunari didn't lose. They were fought to a standstill, then they accepted the Llomerryn Accord, and drew back their forces from most of mainland Thedas.
This means that the Qunari were fully capable of taking on the combined might of Thedas, and fight it to a standstill.

The Qunari were invaders from outside Thedas who were busy trying to impose their will on the continent beyond Rivain and Seheron. Their offensives ended up being stopped cold, and they eventually were forced to withraw to behind their pre-war borders.

That is a defeat.

Agreed.

[Steelcan]

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

[Master Warder Z_]

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

[Br3admax]

More Ottoman/Europe, tbh. Tevinter is Byzantium. Mages are greek fire. The Qunari have the most advance technology and cannons, etc, so on and so forth.

[Steelcan]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

[TK514]

Master Warder Z wrote...

TK514 wrote...

The Qunari didn't lose. They realized their objectives couldn't be met. The Qunari aren't fighting a war of conquest, they're fighting a war of conversion. When the Qunari realized that the Exalted Marches called against them were as busy slaughtering the innocent civilians the Qunari were trying to convert as engaging in battle, they withdrew and accepted a cease fire to reconsider the problem.

Sure and the fact that their Lines across Antiva, Rivain and Nevarra were collapsing at the sametime has nothing to do with the Withdrawl?

Also with them being shoved out of Kirkwall their military might was about spent, According to the Lore and from what i can glean the war was taking massive losses for the armies of Thedas but headway was being made and suddenly the Qunari offer terms of peace and they were taken.

To me? That implies they realized how royally screwed they were once their little loop around strategem via the free marches didn't work.

I get my info straight from World of Thedas, page 41.

[Mister Gusty]

 "The  war drained the resources of every nation in Thedas, leaving most on the brink of collapse. For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. When the Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar without even chipping the Qunari occupying force, the giants finally withdrew"

http://dragonage.wik...omerryn_Accords

Also if their "defeat," forced them to withdraw to behind their pre-war borders they technically would have to have gone back to whatever land they originated from...

Modifié par Mister Gusty, 11 décembre 2013 - 12:14 .

[Master Warder Z_]

TK514 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

TK514 wrote...

The Qunari didn't lose. They realized their objectives couldn't be met. The Qunari aren't fighting a war of conquest, they're fighting a war of conversion. When the Qunari realized that the Exalted Marches called against them were as busy slaughtering the innocent civilians the Qunari were trying to convert as engaging in battle, they withdrew and accepted a cease fire to reconsider the problem.

Sure and the fact that their Lines across Antiva, Rivain and Nevarra were collapsing at the sametime has nothing to do with the Withdrawl?

Also with them being shoved out of Kirkwall their military might was about spent, According to the Lore and from what i can glean the war was taking massive losses for the armies of Thedas but headway was being made and suddenly the Qunari offer terms of peace and they were taken.

To me? That implies they realized how royally screwed they were once their little loop around strategem via the free marches didn't work.

I get my info straight from World of Thedas, page 41.

Considering my personal copy is on the other side of the atlantic at the moment.

Be a lamb and enlighten me with what it has to say.

[Master Warder Z_]

Steelcan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

For some reason i feel slightly disgusted at the comparsion between Germany and the Qunari...

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It depends how you look at the war. The balance of power ended in a stalemate. But since the Qunari were the aggressors, the humans achieved their objectives and the Qunari did not.

[billy the squid]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

For some reason i feel slightly disgusted at the comparsion between Germany and the Qunari...

Why, the situation at that point is similar, sans the Treaty of Versailles. Yet, no one is comparing the Qunari to Germany.

[Master Warder Z_]

billy the squid wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

For some reason i feel slightly disgusted at the comparsion between Germany and the Qunari...

Why, the situation at that point is similar, sans the Treaty of Versailles. Yet, no one is comparing the Qunari to Germany.

No i meant the mental comparsion i did of the situation.

And i wouldn't compare Versailles to the Accord personally.

One was a Nation killer that rained debt and misfortune upon a people and the other granted them territory they were occupying anyway.

Not exactly accurate in my book.

[billy the squid]

Master Warder Z wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

For some reason i feel slightly disgusted at the comparsion between Germany and the Qunari...

Why, the situation at that point is similar, sans the Treaty of Versailles. Yet, no one is comparing the Qunari to Germany.

No i meant the mental comparsion i did of the situation.

And i wouldn't compare Versailles to the Accord personally.

One was a Nation killer that rained debt and misfortune upon a people and the other granted them territory they were occupying anyway.

Not exactly accurate in my book.

that's why I said sans = without. 

[Master Warder Z_]

billy the squid wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The Qunari/Thedas conflict seems reminiscent of WW1 to me.

Explain.

.  Two large powers going at it, an Alliance between former enemies to combat the invading forces, massive casualties on both sides but eventually the attackers start to roll back.

However the defeat is not utter, there are issues over the Peace treaty, and its probably going to result in a new war before too long.

For some reason i feel slightly disgusted at the comparsion between Germany and the Qunari...

Why, the situation at that point is similar, sans the Treaty of Versailles. Yet, no one is comparing the Qunari to Germany.

No i meant the mental comparsion i did of the situation.

And i wouldn't compare Versailles to the Accord personally.

One was a Nation killer that rained debt and misfortune upon a people and the other granted them territory they were occupying anyway.

Not exactly accurate in my book.

that's why I said sans = without. 

Bleh i thought you were using internet shorthand (Sans has an entirely diffrent meaning) not the literal meaning of the word.

Although you are lucky i comprehend enough french to glean the intent; Next time i would expand upon a point to avoid confusion.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Master Warder Z wrote...

TK514 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

TK514 wrote...

The Qunari didn't lose. They realized their objectives couldn't be met. The Qunari aren't fighting a war of conquest, they're fighting a war of conversion. When the Qunari realized that the Exalted Marches called against them were as busy slaughtering the innocent civilians the Qunari were trying to convert as engaging in battle, they withdrew and accepted a cease fire to reconsider the problem.

Sure and the fact that their Lines across Antiva, Rivain and Nevarra were collapsing at the sametime has nothing to do with the Withdrawl?

Also with them being shoved out of Kirkwall their military might was about spent, According to the Lore and from what i can glean the war was taking massive losses for the armies of Thedas but headway was being made and suddenly the Qunari offer terms of peace and they were taken.

To me? That implies they realized how royally screwed they were once their little loop around strategem via the free marches didn't work.

I get my info straight from World of Thedas, page 41.

Considering my personal copy is on the other side of the atlantic at the moment.

Be a lamb and enlighten me with what it has to say.

There's an in universe document by a Qunari offering a summary of the Qunari Wars. It mentions that the peace treaty was a response to the suffering of the Kabethari. Thier war becomes pointless if it results in the death of the people they hoped to convert.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 décembre 2013 - 05:35 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Han Shot First wrote...

The Qunari were invaders from outside Thedas who were busy trying to impose their will on the continent beyond Rivain and Seheron. Their offensives ended up being stopped cold, and they eventually were forced to withraw to behind their pre-war borders.

That is a defeat.

Their pre-war borders were Par Vollen alone, or if you want to get real technical they had no land at all before the war. After the war they sat firmly on Seheron and northeren Rivain. That is NOT a defeat.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 11 décembre 2013 - 05:56 .