297 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

bobobo878 wrote...

Hm, maybe one of these days I'll force myself to finish TW1

Sure and maybe one of these days you'll stay in your pokeball? 

[Han Shot First]

The posts implying that the Witcher is somehow less of an RPG because Geralt is pre-defined leave me scratching my head.

In the Witcher your decisions have more of an impact than any Bioware game to date. Some decisions result in completely different storylines that take Geralt to completely different locations and surround him with a different cast of characters. Character creation isn't the end-all-and-be-all of RPGs.

[Addai]

Han Shot First wrote...

The posts implying that the Witcher is somehow less of an RPG because Geralt is pre-defined leave me scratching my head.

In the Witcher your decisions have more of an impact than any Bioware game to date. Some decisions result in completely different storylines that take Geralt to completely different locations and surround him with a different cast of characters. Character creation isn't the end-all-and-be-all of RPGs.

To some people the character creation is what defines the RPG or at the very least is a dealbreaker.  The spouse won't play The Witcher for this reason. I know others who won't play if they can't make a female character. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but games are leisure pursuits, people should do what they want.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

EntropicAngel wrote...

In Exile wrote...

It's honestly the first medieval open world game that looks like it actually has cities. That's right Skyrim/Oblivion, I'm looking at you.

Hey, don't be mean to Oblivion, now. Oblivion did a good job for 2006.

^

[Blooddrunk1004]

Han Shot First wrote...

The posts implying that the Witcher is somehow less of an RPG because Geralt is pre-defined leave me scratching my head.

In the Witcher your decisions have more of an impact than any Bioware game to date. Some decisions result in completely different storylines that take Geralt to completely different locations and surround him with a different cast of characters. Character creation isn't the end-all-and-be-all of RPGs.

^^
This
Character creation is not what represents RPG, decisions and their outcomes do. It's also funny because some of dbest RPGs have predifined characters: The Witcher, Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex.

[Cheylus]

Shepard is a predefined character.
Saying that, I can't agree when you said "In the Witcher your decisions have more impact than in BioWare games".

[Blooddrunk1004]

Cheylus wrote...

Shepard is a predefined character.
Saying that, I can't agree when you said "In the Witcher your decisions have more impact than in BioWare games".

Oh please the biggest decisions like:

The Council, Collectors Base, Rachni Queen and etc. changed nothing and none of it mattered.
The only decisions where Bioware took some notice was Legion, Tali, Mordin loyalty missions and fate of Wrex.

In Witcher 2 where you have decision to hand Iorveth a sword puts entire fate of Flotsam in Geralt's hands ,because the village either gets destroyed or they have a celebration when you return. The biggest decision in Witcher 2 even changes the plot: either you end up with Kaedwen who is planning to invade upper Aedirn or you end up with the Aedirn rebellion and defend against Kaedwen + the story is completely different on both sides.

That decision alone is what makes "Mass Effect decision having an impact" look like a joke.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 10 décembre 2013 - 11:27 .

[Cheylus]

Ok and this choice apart? We still have to see how it impacts TW3.

Your decision of staying neutral/Scoiatel/Order in TW1 has no impact in TW2, and nothing big in TW1 too anyway. Your choices in side quests or main quests, in TW1 or TW2 alike, are very similar to what you also have in Mass Effect. The fact that TW2 completely ignore Shani for example would have made the BioWare fanatic base crazy. 

Still, we haven't see how TW3 will deal with our previous choices, but I won't hold my breath: Playstation players are newcomers to the serie, Xb360 saves can't be used in XbOne iirc.

It matters to me when choices have an impact on me, as a moral person. In that case, ME and TW do give us, both, very interesting choices. The Council, Rachni, Collector Base, Geths, the Genophage etc. were very important choices to me in the heat of the game. Likewise, fighting Letho or not, killing the Dragon or not, were also very important to me. 
I don't expect my choices to have consequences I fantasized. 

Modifié par Cheylus, 10 décembre 2013 - 12:36 .

[stonbw1]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Cheylus wrote...

Shepard is a predefined character.
Saying that, I can't agree when you said "In the Witcher your decisions have more impact than in BioWare games".

Oh please the biggest decisions like:

The Council, Collectors Base, Rachni Queen and etc. changed nothing and none of it mattered.
The only decisions where Bioware took some notice was Legion, Tali, Mordin loyalty missions and fate of Wrex.

In Witcher 2 where you have decision to hand Iorveth a sword puts entire fate of Flotsam in Geralt's hands ,because the village either gets destroyed or they have a celebration when you return. The biggest decision in Witcher 2 even changes the plot: either you end up with Kaedwen who is planning to invade upper Aedirn or you end up with the Aedirn rebellion and defend against Kaedwen + the story is completely different on both sides.

That decision alone is what makes "Mass Effect decision having an impact" look like a joke.

I didn't enjoy TW2 that much, but I was shocked by this story split.  TW2 seemed to become almost two separate games at this juncture.  To me, that's remarkable, since the vast majority of players don't finish the game (like me), much less play the game twice to realize the two different story paths.  You have to really applaud the developer for spending so much time/resources on this despite knowing only the hardcore fans would fully appreciate it. 

WITH THAT SAID (in defense of ME), would you trade multiple endings/story paths (ala TW2) if it meant the quality of the story/graphics/content was thinned out?  Say what you want to about ME, but the quality of the story/graphics/content far surpassed TW2 (...in my opinion!!!).

[Cheylus]

I wouldn't say that "Shepard isn't predefined at all", to begin with.

I don't think it's possible to discuss if it begins with an overstatement like this, and we're off-topic.

Shepard is defined by being a marine made to represent humanity as a space operative and a good guy who will ultimately save the day no matter what. You can choose a pre-established origin for him.
Do I want to be a space marine? Do I want to become humanity's figure? Do I want to become a hero? I don't have any choice here. A certain number of important "gaps" are then already filled and determined with none of the player's input.
Mass Effect isn't a game where you wonder about Shepard's identity and human nature.

Meanwhile, as much as I can recognize Geralt as predefined, TW keeps asking me if I want to be a Witcher and nothing more, if I want to take side and which side I want to take, if I want to change things of if I want to be - or remain - neutral.
This is one core theme of The Witcher (both in the books and in the games): am I the toy of destiny? can I be something else than a soulless golem? do I have a purpose? am I predefined?
The Law of Surprise and the bound he has with Yennefer (it is strongly implied they love each other because Geralt made a wish) are also relevent on this subject. Geralt isn't predefined because it's convenient game-wise. On the other hand and in my humble opinion, Shepard is predefined because it's convenient.

edit: I'm thinking of a choice you have in TW2: kill the dragon or not. It's stated in the books that no matter what, Geralt don't slay dragons; you still have the choice because you know the dragon's backstory. In the meantime, Shepard follow orders most of the time. He needs Anderson to know that he can take a break.
I'm not saying one is less "predefined" than the other, I'm just trying to make you understand that both are predefined. What's interesting here is what is made with this "predefinition". For instance, Batman in the Arkham serie is also predefined, and he isn't much more than that - Geralt, like Batman, has a strong backstory, but he is much more than that.

Modifié par Cheylus, 10 décembre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

Cheylus wrote...

Ok and this choice apart? We still have to see how it impacts TW3.

Your decision of staying neutral/Scoiatel/Order in TW1 has no impact in TW2, and nothing big in TW1 too anyway. Your choices in side quests or main quests, in TW1 or TW2 alike, are very similar to what you also have in Mass Effect. The fact that TW2 completely ignore Shani for example would have made the BioWare fanatic base crazy. 

Looks like you didn't side with the Order, because when you reach their camp in chapter 3 you meet Sigfried again, he is still a friend with Geralt and also doesn't believe you are the murderer of Foltest. It also changes one part of the game, when you go save Foltest's daughter Anais, when you have decision to either hand her to Radovid or Natalis.

If you decide to give her to Natalis, Radovid will send his soldiers after you to make sure he gets her. Normaly you would have to fight those soldier but if Sigfried is around he tells his men to go and says that he never saw you.

stonbw1 wrote...
 

WITH THAT SAID (in defense of ME),
would you trade multiple endings/story paths (ala TW2) if it meant the
quality of the story/graphics/content was thinned out?  Say what you
want to about ME, but the quality of the story/graphics/content far
surpassed TW2 (...in my opinion!!!).

The problem with this statement is that CDPR takes their time with games, they will make sure nothing gets rushed, removed and etc. Unlike Bioware who is being pressured by EA to release everything as soon as possible. DA2 and ME3 both got rushed, also you can't use "ME has better graphics" as an opinion. TW2 has better graphics than ME trilogy, that's the fact.

As for quality, content and story i will side with Witcher any day.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 10 décembre 2013 - 03:53 .

[Cheylus]

I did side with the Order and I've completed both game many, many times with all the outcomes. Same with Mass Effect and Dragon Age. I also read the books.

Looks like you didn't side with the Order, because when you reach their camp in chapter 3 you meet Sigfried again, he is still a friend with Geralt and also doesn't believe you are the murderer of Foltest.

How has it "much more impact" than in a Dragon Age or a Mass Effect?
I can't count how many lines of dialog and cameos there are in both franchises because I made a choice...

If you decide to give her to Natalis, Radovid will send his soldiers after you to make sure he gets her. Normaly you would have to fight those soldier but if Sigfried is around he tells his men to go and says that he never saw you.

So by siding with the Order you can skip a battle.
I can side with a faction and skip battles in Dragon Age and Mass Effect too, numerous times.

Frankly, I expected more.

So, again:

Your choices (and consequences, if I may add) in side quests or main quests, in TW1 or TW2 alike, are very similar to what you also have in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Cheylus, 10 décembre 2013 - 04:17 .

[stonbw1]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Cheylus wrote...

Ok and this choice apart? We still have to see how it impacts TW3.

Your decision of staying neutral/Scoiatel/Order in TW1 has no impact in TW2, and nothing big in TW1 too anyway. Your choices in side quests or main quests, in TW1 or TW2 alike, are very similar to what you also have in Mass Effect. The fact that TW2 completely ignore Shani for example would have made the BioWare fanatic base crazy. 

Looks like you didn't side with the Order, because when you reach their camp in chapter 3 you meet Sigfried again, he is still a friend with Geralt and also doesn't believe you are the murderer of Foltest. It also changes one part of the game, when you go save Foltest's daughter Anais, when you have decision to either hand her to Radovid or Natalis.

If you decide to give her to Natalis, Radovid will send his soldiers after you to make sure he gets her. Normaly you would have to fight those soldier but if Sigfried is around he tells his men to go and says that he never saw you.

stonbw1 wrote...
 

WITH THAT SAID (in defense of ME),
would you trade multiple endings/story paths (ala TW2) if it meant the
quality of the story/graphics/content was thinned out?  Say what you
want to about ME, but the quality of the story/graphics/content far
surpassed TW2 (...in my opinion!!!).

The problem with this statement is that CDPR takes their time with games, they will make sure nothing gets rushed, removed and etc. Unlike Bioware who is being pressured by EA to release everything as soon as possible. DA2 and ME3 both got rushed, also you can't use "ME has better graphics" as an opinion. TW2 has better graphics than ME trilogy, that's the fact.

As for quality, content and story i will side with Witcher any day.

IF you play on PC.  From my console, it was clearly the opposite (well, at least with ME2&3).  

[Addai]

Vizima wins hands down. The Imperial City is loading screen after loading screen. Vizima seems alive and like a real city, including the seedy parts. Plus I love the weather mechanics and how people react to them.  Oh, also the art style. Compare the sewers of the IC and Vizima- the latter's are a little too real.

To me, Shepard is as pre-defined as Geralt. The background is basically meaningless. The only real choice in shaping Shepard is paragon or renegade and you have a similar effect on Geralt as well. The voice makes the character pre-defined as far as I'm concerned. I could only ever play ME with the same Shepard- otherwise it felt strange having Shepard's voice come out of a supposedly different person.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:12 .

[Han Shot First]

simfamSP wrote...

Shepard isn't predefined at all. Not in the sense that Geralt is. Geralt has a past that amounts to over three novels. Shepard's past is ambiguous and is done so purposely for us to fill the gaps.

If the two extremes are a blank slate character (the Dragonborn) and an entirely predefined one (Geralt), I think Shepard falls somewhere in the middle. Some elements of his (or her) backstory and personality are predefined while others are determined by the player.

I think Shepard having elements of both types of RPG protagonists are why you'll sometimes see players describe Shepard as a blank slate and others claim he's predefined. Both descriptions aren't entirely accurate. Of the two I do think predefined is closer to the mark than blank slate however.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 10 décembre 2013 - 08:11 .

[BouncyFrag]

This game will make me go next gen.

[HoonDing]

I suspect Witcher 3 cities will be like Assassin's Creed cities, just better looking and no jumping over rooftops.

[slimgrin]

I don't think any rendition of a medieval city has rivaled Vizima yet - the atmosphere and authenticity are on another level. But obviously there's more purpose to exploring the Imperial City. Hopefully we get both in Novigrad.