Maverick827 wrote...
By that token, TW is just cheap fan service, both pornographically as well as grimdark grisly manly dark grim badass grim darkly.
Fast Jimmy wrote...
ME1 I'd agree with you. ME2 I would do so as well, but with maybe some grumbling. But by ME3, we'd have to debate.
As I laid out, it isn't entirely about history, but assumed emotion abkut said history that begins creating a set, defined protagonist. ME3 Shephard feels sad about Thessia, he feels traumatized by the boy that died, he believes the Alliance is the only solution and that Cereberus is terrible. He's friends with Garrus, he's very close with Liara and he's impressed enough with Vega to give hik the time of day, despite many other Alliance marines on his ship.
I understand the story-telling purpose to all of these things, but it doesn't change the fact that Shephard has a lot of his own opinions about has haplened and is currently happening to him. Opinions the player can only color, not outright direct or change. That's much less defined than the bhaalspawn or Warden.
Jestina wrote...
Role-playing is collaborative storytelling. The players main role is in creating the characters and playing them. The function of the GM is to act as arbiter and come up with the setting for the game. Except for giving general guidelines to follow, the GM should be mostly hands off with the players characters. If the GM is defining the characters, then you've taken away the players role, and you now just have a story with players going along for the ride. Much of how your character will be played is determined during the creation process.
slimgrin wrote...
You're describing PnP gaming. Not the same as a cRPG, where you are always along for the ride. Me imagining what my character is like does nothing to enhance a cRPG. It's all about the mechanics and story already in place.
Jestina wrote...
slimgrin wrote...
You're describing PnP gaming. Not the same as a cRPG, where you are always along for the ride. Me imagining what my character is like does nothing to enhance a cRPG. It's all about the mechanics and story already in place.
It doesn't matter the medium. It could be tabletop, LARP, or computer gaming but the definition is the same regardless. Changing the definition to suit some authors definition is how the RPG category got so polluted with action games and shooters.
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Guest_EntropicAngel_*
slimgrin wrote...
I like to customize a character as much as anyone, but insisting on it means I'd miss out on quality games. It's overrated really. I wish there were more predefined characters in RPG's with a general set of values and a history. The emphasis can then be on how events in the plot change according to your actions, and less on traditional D&D alignments types.
Jestina wrote...
slimgrin wrote...
You're describing PnP gaming. Not the same as a cRPG, where you are always along for the ride. Me imagining what my character is like does nothing to enhance a cRPG. It's all about the mechanics and story already in place.
It doesn't matter the medium. It could be tabletop, LARP, or computer gaming but the definition is the same regardless. Changing the definition to suit some authors definition is how the RPG category got so polluted with action games and shooters.
Modifié par LegendaryAvenger, 15 décembre 2013 - 01:06 .
Jestina wrote...
Role-playing is collaborative storytelling. The players main role is in creating the characters and playing them. The function of the GM is to act as arbiter and come up with the setting for the game.
Except for giving general guidelines to follow, the GM should be mostly hands off with the players characters. If the GM is defining the characters, then you've taken away the players role, and you now just have a story with players going along for the ride. Much of how your character will be played is determined during the creation process.
Modifié par In Exile, 15 décembre 2013 - 01:29 .
In Exile wrote...
It is possible to have RPGs were you pick from predesigned characters the GM created. Not all P&P starts with you making up your character from scratch.
Jestina wrote...
It's been defined since at least the 70's. TW is just an action story. There's no input from the player on the character being played in the world. Appearance, gender, mannerisms, skills, profession, etc. are all already defined by the writers...without any collaboration from the player.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
As long as BioWare games are also NOT considered RPGs by that logic I'm good with it.spirosz wrote...
Jestina wrote...
It's been defined since at least the 70's. TW is just an action story. There's no input from the player on the character being played in the world. Appearance, gender, mannerisms, skills, profession, etc. are all already defined by the writers...without any collaboration from the player.
Yes and? This is defined as one of the aspects that you approach the game from. Yet, that doesn't stop the game from changing because of the player input, regardless of your perspective on roleplaying.
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
This guy gets it.CrustyBot wrote...
Planescape: Torment is not an RPG.
Jestina wrote...
Very rarely would that pass. Maybe at a con if you're short on time. And even so, there is no choice of pre-defined characters in TW.
CrustyBot wrote...
Planescape: Torment is not an RPG.
In Exile wrote...
Fast Jimmy wrote...
ME1 I'd agree with you. ME2 I would do so as well, but with maybe some grumbling. But by ME3, we'd have to debate.
As I laid out, it isn't entirely about history, but assumed emotion abkut said history that begins creating a set, defined protagonist. ME3 Shephard feels sad about Thessia, he feels traumatized by the boy that died, he believes the Alliance is the only solution and that Cereberus is terrible. He's friends with Garrus, he's very close with Liara and he's impressed enough with Vega to give hik the time of day, despite many other Alliance marines on his ship.
I understand the story-telling purpose to all of these things, but it doesn't change the fact that Shephard has a lot of his own opinions about has haplened and is currently happening to him. Opinions the player can only color, not outright direct or change. That's much less defined than the bhaalspawn or Warden.
But ME3 is not like any other Bioware game: it has copious amounts of automatic dialogue. It's exactly like TW2 in that regard. Like I mentioned in another post, Bioware started to fix Shepard belief in ME3, which is a whole other thing. And that point, I think you're almost in the realm of a set protagonist.
Point taken about ME3 though. I was so dissapointed in the game I forgot it existed. It's the only Bioware game I've ever played only once and thrown away in the heap - that's an honour not even NWN has (because as much as I didn't like the OC, HoTU was one of my favourite campaigns).
CrustyBot wrote...
Planescape: Torment is not an RPG.
Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 15 décembre 2013 - 10:19 .
Guest_simfamUP_*
Jestina wrote...
It's been defined since at least the 70's. TW is just an action story. There's no input from the player on the character being played in the world. Appearance, gender, mannerisms, skills, profession, etc. are all already defined by the writers...without any collaboration from the player.
ME3 is the same railroaded linear cover shooter that ME2 and (to a lesser extent) ME1 was.
Modifié par simfamSP, 15 décembre 2013 - 11:39 .
Seboist wrote...
CrustyBot wrote...
Planescape: Torment is not an RPG.
Lol, inorite?
Comical how these LARPers think creating a shallow self-insert with customizable hairstyles and whatever make believe that only exists in their head being the core of a video game RPG.
J. Reezy wrote...
As long as BioWare games are also NOT considered RPGs by that logic I'm good with it.spirosz wrote...
Jestina wrote...
It's been defined since at least the 70's. TW is just an action story. There's no input from the player on the character being played in the world. Appearance, gender, mannerisms, skills, profession, etc. are all already defined by the writers...without any collaboration from the player.
Yes and? This is defined as one of the aspects that you approach the game from. Yet, that doesn't stop the game from changing because of the player input, regardless of your perspective on roleplaying.
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