106 réponses à ce sujet

[FINE HERE]

I'd be okay with this if it was only for the smaller and lighter weapons. Swinging around two long swords or broadswords seems ridiculous and like an ineffective way to fight(A long sword and a smaller sword seems more appropriate).

Or, let dual larger weapons be in, but give the player a huge penalty for it. Like attacks at half speed or lower accuracy or takes stamina or gives the PC damage. Something like that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wulfram wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

What explanation can there possibly be within Thedas that prevents a Warrior from picking up a dagger, or a Rogue from picking up an axe?

They're trained and skilled warriors, so they're too sensible to use a weapon they're ineffective with in battle.

And that works, as long as we're not expected to roleplay those characters.

Assigning our character's personality is never acceptable.

[SgtSteel91]

Does anyone want a warrior who specializes in just the longsword? Like Sword and Shield minus the shield. You fight like Aragon in Lord of the Rings or Geralt from The Witcher.

Maybe it could play like this: with sword and shield you play like a tank. With the greatsword you attack slowly but those attacks hit hard. With longsword attack a lot more faster than with the greatsword or the sword and shield.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 14 décembre 2013 - 11:57 .

[Wulfram]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

And that works, as long as we're not expected to roleplay those characters.

Assigning our character's personality is never acceptable.

You don't have the freedom to crawl everywhere, or juggle wherever you want, or paint a picture or smell a flower or an infinity of other things that your character could in reality choose to do.

I don't see why this is any more restrictive of our characters personality than any of those things.

[jazzy B 3]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I suspect the problem is that they'd have to create a full set of extra animations for the DW warrior, and that's not cheap in two ways: it costs time and money to make and there's limited space for animations on the consoles (at least the older ones, I don't know about next-gen).

This seems to be the most popular thing to say these days. Honestly, what doesn't? If they make this an excuse every single time players ask for something, the end result is going to be something pretty shallow.

I think this is the key point you are missing.  They already have a roadmap for development, a plan for features and a budget that they are working to.  You seem to assume that extra money comes out of thin air because players ask for it.  It doesn't.  Now there is some flexibility with things, some features get dropped, others picked up, solutions are found, so maybe it would be possible, but assuming people are being stubborn because there are limitations in the real world is refusing to accept the reality of the situation.

I'm not saying don't ask, because asking tells the developers what is important to their playerbase and can sway a decision one way or another in a situation where there is latitude, but please don't start acting entitled when you have little personal knowledge of the development process in a particular company.  That just engenders upset and defensiveness.

Bioware may have made some mistakes in the past, I'd be the first to say that, but they also have a lot more experience designing game mechanics than pretty much anyone on this forum.  There might be reasons beyond animation cost that factor into a decision wether to include dual weilding or not.  For example, does it add enough to the options to make it worth investing in, will it infringe on another classes functionality and so effectively become redundant "choice", would it fundamentally feel different than a different weapon style already implemented?

Now if you want to suggest ways in which dual weilding could be made cool and unique beyond DAO then go ahead, but remember, we know very little about how the combat in DAI will play out, or what the different weapon styles and skill trees will offer at the moment.

That said, they are considering it strongly, so don't rule out the possibility it will make it into the game.

[Anomaly-]

Sidney wrote...
Seriously? You needed to use tactics?

Needed to? No. Enjoyed doing so? Yes.

I would think it was a problem if I needed to. That's what I really didn't like about cross class combos in DA2. They were pretty much forced on you if you wanted to be effective, particularly on higher difficulties. That severely limited options.

I am honestly flabbergasted. DAO's combat is a total mess of nothing. I ran the last half of the game with 2 tactics on every party member for all non-boss fights:

DA:O certainly wasn't as well balanced as it could have been, but I found the overall design to be good. The fact that there was much more freedom in gear and build choices isn't what made the combat too easy. I find that when you mod the game to be much more balanced, the resullt is excellent.

Even with the slower pacing by the time you could move your rogue about, shuffle them over, reset their feet 18 times because your backstabby target moved a nanometer anything they were trying to stab should be dead.

I think if that's the case you're not doing a good job of picking your targets. However, as I already said, the game wasn't well balanced, especially in regards to melee vs mages.

Really even beyond need in so many places - Arl Howe's estate or really any interior location for example there wasn't room to manuever for backstabs because the rooms and halls were so small.

Can't say I've ever actually had much trouble with it. And if a hallway is narrow and you have trouble getting behind an enemy, I would find that realistic. Don't you think a halfway intelligent enemy would be trying to protect their back?

In Exile wrote...
Even if that's true, in DA:O rogues were such unyielding garbage compared to a warrior in terms of how much effort it took to get value out of them that having one around (even properly built) just mean taking up space that you could have for a (probably) mage to steamroll the game.

I agree, the balance was off (especially mages). But what I don't understand is why people talk about how underpowered Rogues were as a way to justify having much fewer options. I just think a much better solution is to make those options better.

The biggest limit on the party's power in DA:O was the fact you couldn't level your own companions from the start.

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of that, either.

Wulfram wrote...
They're trained and skilled warriors, so they're too sensible to use a weapon they're ineffective with in battle.

Why would they be ineffective with a dagger? It's one of the better options in very close quarters combat, so I would think a Warrior would be undertrained if they didn't know how to use it. I would expect that, due to the game's mechanics in regards to talent trees and attributes that Rogues would probably be a little more effective with them, but I see no reason a Warrior would not be able to use them.

As I said before, it doesn't even need to cost much resource wise. DA:O basically just used the same swinging animation for each weapon between classes and I was totally fine with that. As long as the gameplay between a Rogue and a Warrior still differs, allowing more freedom in regards to gear does nothing but add more options both build wise and for roleplaying purposes.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wulfram wrote...

You don't have the freedom to crawl everywhere, or juggle wherever you want, or paint a picture or smell a flower or an infinity of other things that your character could in reality choose to do.

I don't see why this is any more restrictive of our characters personality than any of those things.

Because no one gets to do those things.

I'm not objecting to the limitation.  I'm objecting to the arbitrariness of the limitation.  If Warriors could juggle, but Mages could not, wouldn't that be weird?  Especially if juggling has potential gameplay relevance?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 15 décembre 2013 - 05:37 .