168 réponses à ce sujet

[CynicalShep]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@OP:
I would drop Samara and Kasumi from ME2, and add Miranda and Legion to ME3 as team members. Reason in all four cases: story significance or the lack thereof. Miranda would've worked as an NPC only if her story potential had been realized regardless. Oh, and I meant of course ME2 Legion and Miranda, not the impostors (in both cases) we got in ME3.

Signed under every word ^

[DeinonSlayer]

AlanC9 wrote...

I don't want to derail the thread, but one-for-one substitutions don't really work at the same level of dev resources. Most of the ME2 squadmates don't have much content; giving all of Samara's word count to Miranda still won't get Miranda up to squadmate levels.

Ashley has pretty much nothing to say on the Normandy after recruiting her (not that that's a good thing). I can think of several metaphysical fluff arguments with zero plot relevance which could have been dropped from EDI's word count (navel-gazing about multiverses and some such). I'm sure other places could have been found.

Drop a superfluous squadmate (ex: Jacob) and you drop every word said by every character in their cameo mission (if you drop the mission, or give the replacement character a role in their place in it).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 décembre 2013 - 08:08 .

[ruggly]

Drop: Jacob and Thane
Add: Miranda (or at least re-work her content) and...can't decide between Mordin and Legion.

[wright1978]

I'd drop Samara/Morinth. I think one less biotic could have made the biotic bubble choice in suicide mission more interesting.Zaeed, personally found him the weakest character.

I'd add Miranda & Kasumi to ME3.

Miranda should really have a hefty role in the cerberus arc. She would add balance to the roster for those players who are only reluctantly back with Alliance. Also the conflict factor with the alliance crew & VS especially which in my opinion is badly missing in ME3.

Kasumi, just because i really liked her in ME2. I probably really should go for grunt for the krogan factor or Legion.

[Wynterdust]

Drop: Jack and Thane
Add: Miranda and Kasumi.

[Karlone123]

jtav wrote...

I'd like to see everything completely reworked. Liara takes Hackett's place as your mission brief person and only becomes available after Thessia if she even joins up. Tali is a temp for Rannoch only. Miranda and Jack become temps for a new "Cerberus arc" comprised of Sanctuary, Gellix, Grissom, and Cronos with a choice to reform it under Miranda/Brynn or destroy it. Javik gets full squad status and becomes your "pure" biotic. EDI, James and Javik are your core squad while everyone else rotates in and out as temps or joins late before everyone comes back for Earth and you choose your squad from any former or current squad member.

Drop EDI from being a core companion and I'll think your plan is sound.

[Ieldra]

Karlone123 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'd like to see everything completely reworked. Liara takes Hackett's place as your mission brief person and only becomes available after Thessia if she even joins up. Tali is a temp for Rannoch only. Miranda and Jack become temps for a new "Cerberus arc" comprised of Sanctuary, Gellix, Grissom, and Cronos with a choice to reform it under Miranda/Brynn or destroy it. Javik gets full squad status and becomes your "pure" biotic. EDI, James and Javik are your core squad while everyone else rotates in and out as temps or joins late before everyone comes back for Earth and you choose your squad from any former or current squad member.

Drop EDI from being a core companion and I'll think your plan is sound.

From a gameplay viewpoint, you need a biotic, a soldier and an engineer on the core team. 

[Sir DeLoria]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Tali gets utterly shredded by banshees (imagine a person being sucked into a blender).

Jack and her squad get vaporized by a direct hit from a Reaper.

Shepard puts Ashley down personally.

Well, you certainly have a very...vivid fantasy. But how can a Banshee "blender" someone to death? 

[DeinonSlayer]

Anyone who's read Tairis Deamhan's "Razor's Edge" fanfic would probably approve of Garrus/Kasumi. 

"Daydreaming on us, Sneaky?" Garrus asked, interrupting her train of thought.

"Sneaky?"

The turian shrugged. "Vega has taken to calling me 'Scars'. Figure I'd try my hand at this nickname thing too."

"Hmm... but 'Sneaky'? Really? I expected more out of you, Garrus."

Shepard leaned back against the bench, crossing his arms. "She's got a point there."

"You started this in the first place. At least 'Scars' sounds appropriately manly."

Doing her best to produce a look of pure innocent from beneath her hood Kasumi smiled. "What, 'Gare' isn't manly? How about 'Garry'? Just imagine the look on people's faces when you're introduced as 'Garry the turian'."

"You're enjoying this far too much."

"No, enjoying it far too much would be mentioning a message from Dr. Michel on the Citadel calling you... what was it?"

Garrus' mandibles flexed wordlessly and his bright blue eyes widened. Finally he managed to sputter out part of a sentence.

"How... but... don't you dare..."

"Oh yes," she said silkily, cocking her head and grinning. "I think it was 'Garebear'."

"Whoa... did I just hear what I think I heard?" Vega's voice interrupted from behind them.

The ensuing round of amused comments and ribbing was unrelenting. Vega of course had a long series of questions about turians and 'human fetishists', which inspired Mordin to go on a very long, painfully detailed explanation of exactly that. This of course resulted in more smart assed comments and denials from Garrus, along with cries to stop Mordin's information flood as it became even more detailed. She definitely learned a few things. Even Cortez offered a few choice comments from the cockpit. She could see the look of agitation shifting across the turian's face plates but they faded slightly when he noticed Shepard getting in on the action occasionally.

Of course Kasumi was also highly amused to note that, despite turian physiology, Garrus managed to give her a withering glare and mouth the words 'I hate you' in perfect English when no one else was looking.

I miss ME2's flashbang grenades...

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 décembre 2013 - 08:46 .

[Anubis722]

Drop: Legion and Jacob/Thane and Add: Miranda and Kasumi/Zaeed

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

ME2 had Tali and Garrus. And we were always told the VS and Liara were being held back for significant roles (and Liara gets LOTSB). ME2 fans had no such hope for the future. i'm stuck with a squad I hate with no hope of fighting alongside the characters I cared about.

Wholeheartedly agree with every word.

[Sir DeLoria]

AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath wrote...

Drop: Legion and Jacob/Thane and Add: Miranda and Kasumi/Zaeed

Yep, exactly this.

[RandomGuy96]

Drop for ME2: Thane and either Miranda or Jacob.

Thane, I just never found interesting. A standard spiritual assassin with a heart who vehemently denies that he actually did anything wrong. He did give us a bit of backstory for the drell and hanar, but not much else. I think it's notable that he he's the only squadmate who has no real job on the suicide mission; Tali and Legion are tech experts. Garrus, Jacob and Miranda are fireteam leaders. Samara and Jack are biotic experts. Shepard is Shepard. Grunt can hold the line alone. Thane? Nothing. I don't hate it, but I do think he's unnecessary, so if I had to cut a squadmate, it would be him. Note that I'm not counting Morinth or the DLC characters- I don't think that's fair, as the DLC characters are optional and Morinth has basically no role and very little unique dialogue as is.

Miranda and Jacob: personally, I was completely bored by them both. Except for Miranda, where I was occasionally annoyed or disgusted. From a plot perspective, they mostly served as Cerberus mouth pieces and exposition fairies. I think we only need one of those. If I had to choose one to cut, it'd be Miranda, because at least Jacob is boringly unoffensive (I don't actively disdain him like Miranda) and is a comedy gold mine. Not to say that Miranda doesn't have funny moments too, everyone does, but... unintentional ones are better.

Add for ME3: No one, remove EDI. It was almost entirely superfluous, it could've stayed as the ship's AI and little would've changed. The resources devoted to all of its voice acting and gameplay mechanics could be better used elsewhere. ANYWHERE else. I liked everyone else, even the VS (I've come to appreciate them a bit more recently). Tali, Garrus, Liara and Ash/Kaidan are of course classics, Javik is badass and hilarious, and James is by far the best human squadmate for being useful, funny, relateable, and just an overall great bro. Plus, the one I like the least, Kaidan/Ashley, can be sent away if I wish. 

Modifié par RandomGuy96, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:12 .

[dreamgazer]

Apparently BioWare should just get rid of everybody, huh?

[AlanC9]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Ashley has pretty much nothing to say on the Normandy after recruiting her (not that that's a good thing). I can think of several metaphysical fluff arguments with zero plot relevance which could have been dropped from EDI's word count (navel-gazing about multiverses and some such). I'm sure other places could have been found.

OK, so now we're talking about making unspecified cuts in order to get, say, Miranda up to Ashley levels? 

Drop a superfluous squadmate (ex: Jacob) and you drop every word said by every character in their cameo mission (if you drop the mission, or give the replacement character a role in their place in it).

If you give the role to a replacement character, how much are you saving ?

But I guess we can't really settle this without someone coming up with actual numbers

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:04 .

[frozen45throne]

Okay... Let's see

Drop for ME2 : Jacob and/or Miranda
Add for ME3 : This is an easy one - Kasumi

[RandomGuy96]

dreamgazer wrote...

Apparently BioWare should just get rid of everybody, huh?

Assuming that was directed at me, no. The only ones I'd actually prefer be cut are EDI and Miranda... so, 2, not everyone. And EDI doesn't really count, because I don't want it cut as a character, just cut as a squadmate. I only chose Thane because I had to choose two ME2 squadmates.

While I like the ME2 squadmates (except Miranda and Jacob), the ME1 ones are the ones I'm really attached to, so I'm glad ME3 focuses on them and more or less forgets about half the ME2 cast while introducing a couple cool new characters to fill in the gaps.

Modifié par RandomGuy96, 08 décembre 2013 - 09:57 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Tali gets utterly shredded by banshees (imagine a person being sucked into a blender).

Jack and her squad get vaporized by a direct hit from a Reaper.

Shepard puts Ashley down personally.

Well, you certainly have a very...vivid fantasy. But how can a Banshee "blender" someone to death? 

Quite easily. Imagine a bunch of banshees tearing her apart at once.

[DeinonSlayer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

This is why I wish you had more OC's for ME3.

I just wish every squadmate from ME1 who isn't Wrex would die a painful death.

Yeah, we know, in vivid detail. Would shuffling them off as a war asset (as you can with the VS) have satisfied you?

Garrus, Liara, and Tali legitimately do have jobs to do off of the Normandy. So long as the player had at least two squadmates, I could see optional dismissal for those three working out (not that I, personally, would do it... maybe for Liara).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:05 .

[jtav]

That's one thing that kind of baffles me. Liara, VS, Admiral Tali, and Garrus have actual jobs they should be doing beyond being Shep's henchman. While Miranda, Samara, and Zaeed don't join because, well I really don't understand cit. It'd make more sense if the cameos were the ones with important jobs.

[RandomGuy96]

To be completely fair, they still do their jobs from the Normandy.

Garrus was in charge of a task force to prepare for the Reapers, but said task force has no purpose anymore, so now, he's apparently an "advisor". We do see him do some "advising", like when he "advises" the Primarch to order a full retreat.

Tali, according to herself, doesn't have as much power as the other admirals or even a fleet to command, she just gets a vote and a voice (which is why you can only get the geth-quarian peace with her in power). So she makes the best of the situation and acts as an ambassador whenever you're on the Citadel, doing stuff like organizing evacuations and the bolstering of turian defense lines.

Liara was apparently so screwed by Cerberus that her network was in shambles and her base is gone. She says that she can still run her network just as efficiently from the Normandy with that room full of computers. And, true to her word, you do see messages on her terminal that indicate she's doing something. Doesn't actually use her information brokering abilities to help find Cerberus, though.

The VS actually can be sent off, so that's not an issue. I  actually prefer it that way, as they have no real reason for being on the Normandy and could probably carve out a good career under Hackett's command, fighting in another theatre of the war.

Miranda's survival, as has been pointed out by many, seems to something of an afterthought. She doesn't have anything important to say or do after, despite her role as the Illusive Man's former right hand. In addition, Drunk Tali kind makes more sense if she died, Leng killing her fits better with him being considered a threat (if she survives, I guess he just kinda stomped her and... left?), and the conditions to get her to survive are much more difficult than the survival conditions for all the other squadmates. Contrast the others- Zaeed can be saved just by gaining his loyalty. Samara can be saved with a simple paragon interrupt. Tali survives in 2/3 of the resolutions- and the routes she survives in give more assets than the one route she dies in anyway. Kasumi survives if you have her loyalty. Wrex survives in the best route of the end of his arc, just like Tali. Ash/Kaidan can be saved simply by visiting them in the hospital. Jack can be saved by not intentionally putting off her mission. Grunt can be save by gaining his loyalty. Garrus and Liara can't even die unless you bring them to the final mission with low EMS.

Mordin, Legion, and Thane have unavoidable deaths- or ALMOST unavoidable in Mordin's case.

Miranda? You have to gain her loyalty AND warn her about Leng AND give her Alliance resources AND handle the confrontation with her father right AND not dump her if you romanced her. The only one that has more complicated survival standards is Mordin, and his survival feels like an afterthought as well. He's so obviously meant to die curing the genophage. 

Zaeed and Samara pretty much have no excuse though. They just hang around the Citadel talking about how they'll totally help you out later. Though, I guess it makes sense; Zaeed was DLC, so it wouldn't really be fair to make him a full squadmate to those who bought a used copy/don't have a good connection, and Samara always seemed like a loner to me anway.

Modifié par RandomGuy96, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:21 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

This is why I wish you had more OC's for ME3.

I just wish every squadmate from ME1 who isn't Wrex would die a painful death.

Yeah, we know, in vivid detail. Would shuffling them off as a war asset (as you can with the VS) have satisfied you?

Garrus, Liara, and Tali legitimately do have jobs to do off of the Normandy. So long as the player had at least two squadmates, I could see optional dismissal for those three working out (not that I, personally, would do it... maybe for Liara).

I'd be fine with it yeah. Garrus would be somewhere else doing his thing with the Turians, Tali would be off somewhere probably doing something on Rannoch, and Liara would be off doing something for Hackett.

Mind you, I also wish you could also define how relationships with characters would be. Also, I still wish we had the option to take the original Shadow Broker over Liara. 

I also wish we had the ability to consult with EDI before she gets in the body. I'd be using that thing as a killbot for my own purposes, similar to the AIU from MP.

[Hazegurl]

jtav wrote...

That's one thing that kind of baffles me. Liara, VS, Admiral Tali, and Garrus have actual jobs they should be doing beyond being Shep's henchman. While Miranda, Samara, and Zaeed don't join because, well I really don't understand cit. It'd make more sense if the cameos were the ones with important jobs.

At least the VS makes it clear that it's Shep's choice to have them on otherwise they'll go do their own thing. The others just come along for the ride for no reason.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

RandomGuy96 wrote...

To be completely fair, they still do their jobs from the Normandy.

Garrus was in charge of a task force to prepare for the Reapers, but said task force has no purpose anymore, so now, he's apparently an "advisor". We do see him do some "advising", like when he "advises" the Primarch to order a full retreat.

Tali, according to herself, doesn't have as much power as the other admirals or even a fleet to command, she just gets a vote and a voice (which is why you can only get the geth-quarian peace with her in power). So she makes the best of the situation and acts as an ambassador whenever you're on the Citadel, doing stuff like organizing evacuations and the bolstering of turian defense lines.

Liara was apparently so screwed by Cerberus that her network was in shambles and her base is gone. She says that she can still run her network just as efficiently from the Normandy with that room full of computers. And, true to her word, you do see messages on her terminal that indicate she's doing something. Doesn't actually use her information brokering abilities to help find Cerberus, though.

That's not the point. The point is that I don't want them on my ship. I don't care what they do so much as it's away from me. It'd be pretty nice to have the ability to more or less kick them off the ship, and I'd like to have the ability to define how their relationship to my Shepard is. They'd be pretty negative.

It's about having more choice to how the fates of your squadmates work out as well. I'd have liked more control over their fates in the game, especially the final battle.

I don't want to see Ashley having a good career, especially since she hasn't earned anything she has in ME3 beyond whatever she didn't already have at the start of ME1.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 08 décembre 2013 - 10:27 .

[Stakrin]

 Drop:Jack and Samara. (Well they seem to be the two most pointless, but you need at least one for the suicide mission. Miranda could be the biotic if nether of them existed though)


ne3: add grunt ( need a Krogan and he should have stayed anyway) and Thane (kirrahe sacrifices himself, you cure keprel's syndrome, get thane) or kirrahe (Thane sacrifices himself, Kirrahe joins you if he survived me1) but you said me2 squadmates sooo