41 réponses à ce sujet

[Yougotcarved1]

To me the question is like asking "will we see what's happening on Saturn during the next Metal Gear Solid"? The scope of Mass Effect has always been the Milky Way and this is a (relatively) hard technological and narrative limit, much like how Metal Gear Solid has always been set on Earth because the narrative has nothing to do with outer space.

Yes, they could feasibly "invent" some methods for the ME races to get outside the Milky Way if their narrative called for it, but then they could also do the same for getting to Saturn in Metal Gear Solid (or the next GTA or the next God of War).

The technological leap required for getting outside the Milky Way in ME is similar to the technological leap to reach other planets for the games I mentioned above.

I realise that Mass Effect is a sci-fi game so it makes more sense within the setting, but if you're taking that line then what would a new galaxy add in terms of the setting? There are so many unexplored planets within the Milky Way...in fact there could easily be entire societies and governments. In fact its feasible given what we know about the density of the galaxy that an entire Star Wars sized society could fit in the Milky Way and the ME races would never bump into them, giving infinite scope for other civilisations/planets/situations within the Milky Way itself.

Given all this, why does the question of "outside" the Milky Way come up? I genuinely can't see anything that it would add...

[David7204]

It would be a very easy, althrough incredibly mediocre way to introduce a new antagonist.

Open the relay. Killer aliens pour through.

[Yougotcarved1]

But why do we need a new galaxy for that? I mean look at the Rachni, that exact same situation happened with no need to suddenly (and somewhat implausibly) introduce a whole other galaxy

[Matthias King]

I can't speak for everyone, but I think there are a few reasons.

One reason would be that leaving the Milky Way and exploring another galaxy seems like one of the few viable options for a new Mass Effect game that isn't a prequel.

Another reason is the subject of dark space which has been mentioned numerous times throughout the trilogy. Dark space being the space between galaxies, it doesn't seem totally implausible that something involving dark space and another galaxy could happen in the next installment.

And yet another reason is that it's left purposely ambiguous where some of the uncharted relays lead. One could logically assume they lead to somewhere within the vast Milky Way galaxy, but once again, the potential is there for some uncharted relay being activated and found to connect to a neighboring galaxy.

I'm not a physicist, so I have no idea if the theoretical scientific principles behind Mass Relays could apply to trans-galactic travel or not, and keep in mind that even the established rules for relays are based on pseudo science at best anyway.

As for how good the idea is, I suspect that if the game did go to another galaxy in the next game or at some point later, it would just be more of the same, which would negate the need to go to another galaxy to begin with.

The Milky Way is astronomically huge, but by Mass Effect 3, it does seem like the galaxy is largely explored and there is little in the way of new clusters or life forms to discover, and by extension, little potential for new enemies, so other galaxies do offer an option for new enemies, but as I said, I have a feeling that even if they did that, it would essentially be more of the same, just in a different wrapper.

[Reorte]

Matthias King wrote...

The Milky Way is astronomically huge, but by Mass Effect 3, it does seem like the galaxy is largely explored and there is little in the way of new clusters or life forms to discover, and by extension, little potential for new enemies, so other galaxies do offer an option for new enemies, but as I said, I have a feeling that even if they did that, it would essentially be more of the same, just in a different wrapper.

I've never got that impression at all. The ease with which humanity was finding relays suggests vast swathes of them, and hence the rest of the galaxy, remain to be discovered. Having them as close as Earth and Arcturus means there are millions or billions of them, and what we've seen doesn't go anywhere near suggesting that much space is known and explored, even if there are huge numbers of worlds known and regularly visited that we've not heard of (which is more than likely). The surface of the Milky Way has barely been scratched.

Modifié par Reorte, 09 décembre 2013 - 02:04 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Less than one percent of the Milky Way has been explored according to the Codex. There's plenty to do in our own galaxy.

Besides, given that the space between galaxies is actually heated to millions of degrees (recent discovery) and spans distances of millions of light years, it begs the question of how anything could cross that void to begin with.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Oh come on. People here think that it is one of the few viable ways? It's easy. We've only explored a small fraction of the Milky Way. I agree with David here. Outside the Milky Way is cheap and easy. It requires no imagination. It also requires no fanservice.

A story requires conflict, therefore synthesis is not the canon because synthesis is the galactic peace ending. Control is also not the canon because the Shepardlyst can end the conflict because he/she watches over the many and maintains the peace by being the guardian or the dictator. So Destroy by default is the canon ending because of the best chance for conflict. Bye bye geth. Bye bye EDI. We're rebuilding or we've rebuilt with space magic and let's go to it. Rage on BSN.

[durasteel]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
... So Destroy by default is the canon ending because of the best chance for conflict. Bye bye geth. Bye bye EDI. We're rebuilding or we've rebuilt with space magic and let's go to it. Rage on BSN.

I don't disagree with you about the red being the default canon, but I really don't see why that should end the geth. It's easy to come up with a reason for the geth to survive, especially after Legion is integrated. I also think that some of the Reapers should have survived, simply because the galaxy is a much more interesting place with them in it. With the catalyst destryed they are free to pursue their own mysterious goals, perhaps reflections of the civilizations that were destroyed in thier creation.

The important result of the red space magic blast is that the catalyst is destryed, therefore the immediate threat of the reapers--and their cycle of annihilation--is ended. As for the rest, well... when you have a ending that stupid, you really should feel free to ignore any parts of it that are inconvenient.

Modifié par durasteel, 09 décembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[Michotic]

I think for some, the reasoning is another galaxy is perhaps the only place an enemy could be found that tops the Reapers.

Reapers have been ending all advanced life in the Milky Way for millions of years. While I don't doubt a new enemy could be found in the Milky Way (similar to how the Rachni came about), I'm not sure if it would have the same impact.

I'm not in support of using a new galaxy as a plot point, big or small. Just my observation of it.

[Matthias King]

Reorte wrote...

Matthias King wrote...

The Milky Way is astronomically huge, but by Mass Effect 3, it does seem like the galaxy is largely explored and there is little in the way of new clusters or life forms to discover, and by extension, little potential for new enemies, so other galaxies do offer an option for new enemies, but as I said, I have a feeling that even if they did that, it would essentially be more of the same, just in a different wrapper.

I've never got that impression at all. The ease with which humanity was finding relays suggests vast swathes of them, and hence the rest of the galaxy, remain to be discovered. Having them as close as Earth and Arcturus means there are millions or billions of them, and what we've seen doesn't go anywhere near suggesting that much space is known and explored, even if there are huge numbers of worlds known and regularly visited that we've not heard of (which is more than likely). The surface of the Milky Way has barely been scratched.

I only say that based on the layout of the galaxy map and the distribution of charted relays and explored and/or colonized clusters.  I figured, possibly correctly, possibly incorrectly, that since pretty much every region of the Milky Way has charted clusters, that the area between those clusters would have been explored as well.  For instance, the area where the Kepler Verge, Armstrong Nebula, Nubian Expanse, Attican Beta, Maroon Sea, Shadow Sea, Styx Theta, Hawking Eta, and Caleston Rift.  That's a densely populated area of clusters.  It seems like there wouldn't be much undiscovered area anywhere in there.  And likewise in most areas of the Milky Way.

Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be room enough in the spaces for hundreds of other clusters.

But another thing that I thought of is that the Reapers were supposedly conquering the whole of the Milky Way.  They were only paying attention to known clusters and known races.  I figured that even if the known races don't know about these other hypothetical clusters and races, surely the Reapers would know about them and would be focusing attention on them, but they weren't. 

Modifié par Matthias King, 09 décembre 2013 - 03:03 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Oh come on. People here think that it is one of the few viable ways? It's easy. We've only explored a small fraction of the Milky Way. I agree with David here. Outside the Milky Way is cheap and easy. It requires no imagination. It also requires no fanservice.

A story requires conflict, therefore synthesis is not the canon because synthesis is the galactic peace ending. Control is also not the canon because the Shepardlyst can end the conflict because he/she watches over the many and maintains the peace by being the guardian or the dictator. So Destroy by default is the canon ending because of the best chance for conflict. Bye bye geth. Bye bye EDI. We're rebuilding or we've rebuilt with space magic and let's go to it. Rage on BSN.

I seriously doubt there will be a direct follow up or canon ending especially when they went through the trouble and sh*tstorm of maintaining the premise of the endings in EC if they were just going to scrap whole thing later in favor of just one option.

[Derpy]

 Nobody mentioned a world wide geth war...

Even if the destroy is the canon ending, they could add that all the deactivated geth heretics survived and wanted revenge. The geth could take the citadel over and turn it into a big base and you have to destroy it to end the game.

[Michotic]

Matthias King wrote...

I only say that based on the layout of the galaxy map and the distribution of charted relays and explored and/or colonized clusters.  I figured, possibly correctly, possibly incorrectly, that since pretty much every region of the Milky Way has charted clusters, that the area between those clusters would have been explored as well.  For instance, the area where the Kepler Verge, Armstrong Nebula, Nubian Expanse, Attican Beta, Maroon Sea, Shadow Sea, Styx Theta, Hawking Eta, and Caleston Rift.  That's a densely populated area of clusters.  It seems like there wouldn't be much undiscovered area anywhere in there.  And likewise in most areas of the Milky Way.

Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be room enough in the spaces for hundreds of other clusters.

But another thing that I thought of is that the Reapers were supposedly conquering the whole of the Milky Way.  They were only paying attention to known clusters and known races.  I figured that even if the known races don't know about these other hypothetical clusters and races, surely the Reapers would know about them and would be focusing attention on them, but they weren't. 

It looks densley packed, but the map doesn't really incorporate the scale. Our galaxy contains at least 100 billion stars, most likely much, much more. While not all of them will have systems (or even habitable planets), there's still a lot out there that hasn't been seen yet.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

durasteel wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
... So Destroy by default is the canon ending because of the best chance for conflict. Bye bye geth. Bye bye EDI. We're rebuilding or we've rebuilt with space magic and let's go to it. Rage on BSN.

I don't disagree with you about the red being the default canon, but I really don't see why that should end the geth. It's easy to come up with a reason for the geth to survive, especially after Legion is integrated. I also think that some of the Reapers should have survived, simply because the galaxy is a much more interesting place with them in it. With the catalyst destryed they are free to pursue their own mysterious goals, perhaps reflections of the civilizations that were destroyed in thier creation.

The important result of the red space magic blast is that the catalyst is destryed, therefore the immediate threat of the reapers--and their cycle of annihilation--is ended. As for the rest, well... when you have a ending that stupid, you really should feel free to ignore any parts of it that are inconvenient.

Well, they had a chance to change the bold with the EC and they didn't, so that isn't going to happen. We were talking about what Bioware could come up with for the next story as a sequel, not what is in our head canons. The reaper plot is over. Shepard's story is over.

[Matthias King]

Michotic wrote...

Matthias King wrote...

I only say that based on the layout of the galaxy map and the distribution of charted relays and explored and/or colonized clusters.  I figured, possibly correctly, possibly incorrectly, that since pretty much every region of the Milky Way has charted clusters, that the area between those clusters would have been explored as well.  For instance, the area where the Kepler Verge, Armstrong Nebula, Nubian Expanse, Attican Beta, Maroon Sea, Shadow Sea, Styx Theta, Hawking Eta, and Caleston Rift.  That's a densely populated area of clusters.  It seems like there wouldn't be much undiscovered area anywhere in there.  And likewise in most areas of the Milky Way.

Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be room enough in the spaces for hundreds of other clusters.

But another thing that I thought of is that the Reapers were supposedly conquering the whole of the Milky Way.  They were only paying attention to known clusters and known races.  I figured that even if the known races don't know about these other hypothetical clusters and races, surely the Reapers would know about them and would be focusing attention on them, but they weren't. 

It looks densley packed, but the map doesn't really incorporate the scale. Our galaxy contains at least 100 billion stars, most likely much, much more. While not all of them will have systems (or even habitable planets), there's still a lot out there that hasn't been seen yet.

Yes, and that makes sense, that is something I thought about.  There could be millions of clusters out there unexplored.  The only thing that makes me wonder is the thing about the Reapers.  They were seemingly only concerned with the known races and the charted clusters, as if they were the only parts of the Milky Way that were of note.  Granted, that's probably just Bioware not knowing what else to do, but it does introduce problems in the story if, for instance, in ME4 someone opened up an uncharted relay to a cluster somewhere in the lower left area of the Milky Way and discovered a bunch of races or one super-powerful enemy race or whatever, and people start to ask, if the Reapers were conquering the entire Milky Way, and had been for millions of years, why weren't they doing anything to these new guys we just discovered down here? 

[Michotic]

The Reapers know where to hit based on the census data of the current civilization. If a species hasn't joined the galactic community (space faring or not), I don't think the Reapers would know about them.

I wonder if the chain of events Shepard set off is what gets the attention of the new antagonist in the next installment. The energy given off no matter which choice you make hits every Relay. This might allow the various species to track down new Relays and see what they discover.

[Vortex13]

The notion of adding a whole other galaxy to the setting; even though only 1% (rounding up) of the current galaxy has been explored seems very improbable. Plus as others have said, it would feel like such a waste when there is so much potential still left in the Milky Way.

Why would anyone else think that going to another galaxy would be something groundbreaking for the lore of the setting (ignoring the cosmic travel distances of course)? There would be alien life there, yes, but I fail to see how that would be anymore compelling then the myriad of alien life already present (and as yet undiscovered) in our own galaxy.

Here is an new alien species discovered on the other side of an uncharted Relay, and here is an alien species from the Andromada galaxy. What is the big difference apart from galaxy of origin? They are both aliens.

The idea that we can find something that 'tops' the Reapers in some other part of the universe is something that I hope never happens. We don't need Mass Effect to become DBZ with a new villain of the week; each one being an order of magnitude more powerful then the last one. The inclusion of the Leviathans was a huge deal, one that can stand to see some more elaboration, we really don't need something else far more powerful and/or ancient then them, otherwise the villians/potential antagonists becomes nothing more then a DBZ villain.

The only thing I am interested in seeing, outside of the Milky Way in ME:Next is the Dark Space Relay, and the (possible) Reapers still out there.

[Matthias King]

Michotic wrote...

The Reapers know where to hit based on the census data of the current civilization. If a species hasn't joined the galactic community (space faring or not), I don't think the Reapers would know about them.

I wonder if the chain of events Shepard set off is what gets the attention of the new antagonist in the next installment. The energy given off no matter which choice you make hits every Relay. This might allow the various species to track down new Relays and see what they discover.

It seems hard to believe that the Reapers based everything they did simply off what we knew.  If that were the case, for all they knew there were synthetics wholesale slaughtering organics and taking over cluster after cluster in a quest for galactic, and then universal dominance!  But since we didn't know about it, the Reapers didn't know about it, and they come back 50,000 years later and find that the unknown race of super-synthetics has wiped out all organic life in the galaxy and moved on to a neighboring galaxy.

[Michotic]

I believe it was Vigil on Ilos that said the Reaper left behind each cycle no doubt 'awakened' at various points to scan the galaxy to determine what stage life was developing at. There'd be no reason to call the Reapers back if there wasn't enough of a civilization to harvest.

The Reapers knew where to attack because they had all the data. They knew where people were. It wouldn't be logical to send your forces to uncharted areas in the hope you might find something.

In your scenario, these synthetics would have to have done it without alerting anyone in the known galactic civilization. Instead of finishing the job in the Milky Way, they go for a much more risky venture of trying to get to another galaxy?

[Matthias King]

Vortex13 wrote...

The notion of adding a whole other galaxy to the setting; even though only 1% (rounding up) of the current galaxy has been explored seems very improbable. Plus as others have said, it would feel like such a waste when there is so much potential still left in the Milky Way.

Why would anyone else think that going to another galaxy would be something groundbreaking for the lore of the setting (ignoring the cosmic travel distances of course)? There would be alien life there, yes, but I fail to see how that would be anymore compelling then the myriad of alien life already present (and as yet undiscovered) in our own galaxy.

Here is an new alien species discovered on the other side of an uncharted Relay, and here is an alien species from the Andromada galaxy. What is the big difference apart from galaxy of origin? They are both aliens.

The idea that we can find something that 'tops' the Reapers in some other part of the universe is something that I hope never happens. We don't need Mass Effect to become DBZ with a new villain of the week; each one being an order of magnitude more powerful then the last one. The inclusion of the Leviathans was a huge deal, one that can stand to see some more elaboration, we really don't need something else far more powerful and/or ancient then them, otherwise the villians/potential antagonists becomes nothing more then a DBZ villain.

The only thing I am interested in seeing, outside of the Milky Way in ME:Next is the Dark Space Relay, and the (possible) Reapers still out there.

Just for the record, I agree with you.  I wasn't suggesting any of those options was a particularly great idea, just offering suggestions as to why some people may think it is.

[Matthias King]

Michotic wrote...

I believe it was Vigil on Ilos that said the Reaper left behind each cycle no doubt 'awakened' at various points to scan the galaxy to determine what stage life was developing at. There'd be no reason to call the Reapers back if there wasn't enough of a civilization to harvest.

The Reapers knew where to attack because they had all the data. They knew where people were. It wouldn't be logical to send your forces to uncharted areas in the hope you might find something.

In your scenario, these synthetics would have to have done it without alerting anyone in the known galactic civilization. Instead of finishing the job in the Milky Way, they go for a much more risky venture of trying to get to another galaxy?

I was only offering that scenario to point out that if the Reapers are basing everything they do entirely off what we know, and the possibility is that there are millions of clusters out there with life in them doing who knows what that we don't even know about, then their reaping of the Milky Way would be extremely incomplete.  Hence, it stands to reason that, if they are as good at what they do as has been suggested, they have to know more about what's going on in the galaxy than we do.  Does that make sense?

I mean, it's all a moot point anyway because they reapers are defeated anyway, assuming the next Mass Effect takes place after the Shepard Trilogy that is.

[Vortex13]

Matthias King wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

The notion of adding a whole other galaxy to the setting; even though only 1% (rounding up) of the current galaxy has been explored seems very improbable. Plus as others have said, it would feel like such a waste when there is so much potential still left in the Milky Way.

Why would anyone else think that going to another galaxy would be something groundbreaking for the lore of the setting (ignoring the cosmic travel distances of course)? There would be alien life there, yes, but I fail to see how that would be anymore compelling then the myriad of alien life already present (and as yet undiscovered) in our own galaxy. 

Here is an new alien species discovered on the other side of an uncharted Relay, and here is an alien species from the Andromada galaxy. What is the big difference apart from galaxy of origin? They are both aliens.

The idea that we can find something that 'tops' the Reapers in some other part of the universe is something that I hope never happens. We don't need Mass Effect to become DBZ with a new villain of the week; each one being an order of magnitude more powerful then the last one. The inclusion of the Leviathans was a huge deal, one that can stand to see some more elaboration, we really don't need something else far more powerful and/or ancient then them, otherwise the villians/potential antagonists becomes nothing more then a DBZ villain.

The only thing I am interested in seeing, outside of the Milky Way in ME:Next is the Dark Space Relay, and the (possible) Reapers still out there.

Just for the record, I agree with you.  I wasn't suggesting any of those options was a particularly great idea, just offering suggestions as to why some people may think it is.

Sorry if my post came off as directed at anyone in particular, it wasn't supposed to be; just my view on the whole "ME: Next should go to Andromada" debate.

[General TSAR]

It's fun?

[Matthias King]

Vortex13 wrote...

Matthias King wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

The notion of adding a whole other galaxy to the setting; even though only 1% (rounding up) of the current galaxy has been explored seems very improbable. Plus as others have said, it would feel like such a waste when there is so much potential still left in the Milky Way.

Why would anyone else think that going to another galaxy would be something groundbreaking for the lore of the setting (ignoring the cosmic travel distances of course)? There would be alien life there, yes, but I fail to see how that would be anymore compelling then the myriad of alien life already present (and as yet undiscovered) in our own galaxy. 

Here is an new alien species discovered on the other side of an uncharted Relay, and here is an alien species from the Andromada galaxy. What is the big difference apart from galaxy of origin? They are both aliens.

The idea that we can find something that 'tops' the Reapers in some other part of the universe is something that I hope never happens. We don't need Mass Effect to become DBZ with a new villain of the week; each one being an order of magnitude more powerful then the last one. The inclusion of the Leviathans was a huge deal, one that can stand to see some more elaboration, we really don't need something else far more powerful and/or ancient then them, otherwise the villians/potential antagonists becomes nothing more then a DBZ villain.

The only thing I am interested in seeing, outside of the Milky Way in ME:Next is the Dark Space Relay, and the (possible) Reapers still out there.

Just for the record, I agree with you.  I wasn't suggesting any of those options was a particularly great idea, just offering suggestions as to why some people may think it is.

Sorry if my post came off as directed at anyone in particular, it wasn't supposed to be; just my view on the whole "ME: Next should go to Andromada" debate.

That's cool, I didn't think it was directed at me specifically.  I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't arguing in favor of it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Oh come on. People here think that it is one of the few viable ways? It's easy. We've only explored a small fraction of the Milky Way. I agree with David here. Outside the Milky Way is cheap and easy. It requires no imagination. It also requires no fanservice.

A story requires conflict, therefore synthesis is not the canon because synthesis is the galactic peace ending. Control is also not the canon because the Shepardlyst can end the conflict because he/she watches over the many and maintains the peace by being the guardian or the dictator. So Destroy by default is the canon ending because of the best chance for conflict. Bye bye geth. Bye bye EDI. We're rebuilding or we've rebuilt with space magic and let's go to it. Rage on BSN.

I always thought they would do one of those everything is cannon ending. Like there will be no Reapers because they're dead or they left to go on some Reaper journey or something and the Geth go with them. And it will be long enough in the future that people obtained Synthesis any way, or the green faded over time and Synthesis ends up not really changing anything.