406 réponses à ce sujet

[henesua]

Este, I really like the direction you are taking with the dormers, but I do think they need a tweak so that you reinforce the form of the building in the silhouette seen from the front and back of the building. In my opinion the most important thing to get right is the silhouette of the model. Whether you have one or three or two dormers won't have much impact on that. The problem I see is that right now the harsh vertical line of the eaves around the dormers squares off your side views in silhouette and that runs counter to the sweeping forms you started with that we've all been responding positively to. The squareness detracts from the graceful down sweep of the main roof's a-frame.

 

Basically you've got a fabric like form on the main roof as it is draped over the form of the building, and the leading edges of the roof curve backward like curtains which have been tied near the base. Thats a nice shape that you should carry through to the dormers albeit not as pronounced.

 

You could push the points of the dormer roofs outward slightly and pull the bottoms back so that you get a similar but muted version of the main roof's sweep backward. This could result in exposing the side walls of the dormer near the base, but that would just add to the visual interest. That said such a move would complicate your geometry, and is not necessary. All you need is a slight curve - likely concave - and an angle back and I think you are good. Just enough so that it breaks the square sides.

 

 

 

Another tweak that I think would be worth while is to slightly lower the middle dormers. If you lower these peaks it allows the main roof to remain dominant in silhouette, and the dormers to be secondary.

 

That you made a taller middle dormer was a great decision, by the way, as it repeats the form of the main roof in the side view elevation. Nice work there.

[Estelindis]

I really like your latest version as well, but it would be nice to keep one or both of the versions below for variety.

Sure, I was planning on doing that anyway.  

 

Would you mind a couple other suggestions?

 

The very large dormers are interesting, but they seem to a bit too extreme to me.  They aren't really balanced with the rest of the design for the structure.  I'm thinking from functionality and well as a stylistic standpoint.  First functionality—how would the top row of windows illuminate anything?  The dormers are so narrow and stick out so far from the roof that they would appear as great dark gashes in the roof from the inside save from when the sun is positioned at a very specific point in the sky.  From the outside, they appear as a stylistic addition without function, and fairly eyebrow rising at that.

 

I’ve two suggestions you may wish to kick around.  The first, if you really want to have that front roof profile—and it does look good IMO—combine the three dormers into a unified roof extension.  Though seeing an interior tileset with this roof is probably unlikely, it adds the—at least illusion of—interior functionality.  It would give you a chance to do some really interesting window as well.

 

Second suggestion is to go with two smaller dormers similar to what you’ve already shown.  They could be a little larger than your original two dormers, but not sticking out so far that they push the realm of believable usefulness.  I’m thinking along the lines of the elves combining graceful and beautiful architecture into something highly elegant, functional, and balanced thoughout the structure.

I'm confused about a few things.  What is the "front roof profile"?  I think of the side with the full balcony as the "front" of the building, but the way I'm reading your post, it seems like you might be referring to what I think of as the side?  

 

Anyway, I added more height to the tall dormers specifically because of rjshae's suggestion: "The taller dormer windows might fit the style a little better if the peak flared up a bit to match the main roof."  The outside needs a good bit more height if the dormer roof is going to have a curved slope upwards, because otherwise it won't connect to the main structure at the right height for a floor, and thus wouldn't give light to that floor.  See below:  

 

 

However, in spite of my reasons, I acknowledge that the high dormers may now look preposterously tall!  Is this your issue?  If they were at the same height as I showed in the previous version, would you be okay with them?  

 

Anyway, as I said to KlatchianCoffee, I will add a variant with the original small dormers (one or two layers), though I'm not sure if you were suggesting this or referring to the original version of the tall dormers.  As for a unified side structure, I must admit that I have considered this too.  As I was making these dormers taller, and increasing the height of the middle one even more (again, as per suggestions here), I did start to wonder how much sense it made to build like this and not just have one single structure.  Worst comes to worst, I can just make another variant.

[Estelindis]

Este, I really like the direction you are taking with the dormers, but I do think they need a tweak so that you reinforce the form of the building in the silhouette seen from the front and back of the building. In my opinion the most important thing to get right is the silhouette of the model. Whether you have one or three or two dormers won't have much impact on that. The problem I see is that right now the harsh vertical line of the eaves around the dormers squares off your side views in silhouette and that runs counter to the sweeping forms you started with that we've all been responding positively to. The squareness detracts from the graceful down sweep of the main roof's a-frame.

 

Basically you've got a fabric like form on the main roof as it is draped over the form of the building, and the leading edges of the roof curve backward like curtains which have been tied near the base. Thats a nice shape that you should carry through to the dormers albeit not as pronounced.

 

You could push the points of the dormer roofs outward slightly and pull the bottoms back so that you get a similar but muted version of the main roof's sweep backward. This could result in exposing the side walls of the dormer near the base, but that would just add to the visual interest. That said such a move would complicate your geometry, and is not necessary. All you need is a slight curve - likely concave - and an angle back and I think you are good. Just enough so that it breaks the square sides.

 

 

 

Another tweak that I think would be worth while is to slightly lower the middle dormers. If you lower these peaks it allows the main roof to remain dominant in silhouette, and the dormers to be secondary.

 

That you made a taller middle dormer was a great decision, by the way, as it repeats the form of the main roof in the side view elevation. Nice work there.

 

Thank you very much for the suggestions.  I had the middle dormer at the height where it is so that light from its window would reach the top floor, but maybe this isn't the most important consideration.  It might be worth lowering it.  As for lessening the straight rigidity of the dormers from a side view, I can try this, but I'm not sure how well it'll work.  The windows at the very bottom can't actually go much further back into the roof without disappearing into it, you see, and they need to stay at the height where they are so that they're in line with other windows for that storey.

 

I'm finding all the feedback very useful, and I very much welcome anything that anyone has to say (especially people with tileset experience like yourself!), but I don't know if I'll be able to please everyone in the end.  I'll do my best.  

[3RavensMore]

 

However, in spite of my reasons, I acknowledge that the high dormers may now look preposterously tall!  Is this your issue?

 

That was basically it.  I'd also forgotten you were planning on doing so variants so...

[henesua]

As for lessening the straight rigidity of the dormers from a side view, I can try this, but I'm not sure how well it'll work.  The windows at the very bottom can't actually go much further back into the roof without disappearing into it, you see, and they need to stay at the height where they are so that they're in line with other windows for that storey.

 

I wouldn't bother with moving the wall of the dormer. If you are thinking of taking my advice, I suggest only adjusting the roof. You could extend the point of the roof outward to gain the space you need to pull this off.

[LadyoftheCats]

This is the link that I'm pointing to for our players to download and it says updated January 17, 2014. But, its been updated since then? Just want to make sure where our players can download this. And, when you are finished, it will be the same link?

 

http://social.biowar...m/project/9069/

 

I'm not at all experienced with working with tilesets but am amazed the detail you are doing with this. I don't find any conflicting resources with our other tilesets, so that is great! Everything in your hak nice and neat and easy to add the SET. I think we can put up with white squares in the mini map until you're ready for full release! So many details with tilesets that its overwhelming!

[Estelindis]

This is the link that I'm pointing to for our players to download and it says updated January 17, 2014. But, its been updated since then? Just want to make sure where our players can download this. And, when you are finished, it will be the same link?

 

http://social.biowar...m/project/9069/

 

I'm not at all experienced with working with tilesets but am amazed the detail you are doing with this. I don't find any conflicting resources with our other tilesets, so that is great! Everything in your hak nice and neat and easy to add the SET. I think we can put up with white squares in the mini map until you're ready for full release! So many details with tilesets that its overwhelming!

 

The project says it was updated in January, but if you go to the files section, you'll find that it says it was last updated on the 30th of August.    

 

I'm glad that you find the tileset to be useful!  The only things at the moment that might cause issues would be if you've overridden some default Bioware textures, as I make use of some of those.  As it stands, there's no doortypes.2da, as I haven't added any custom doors.  There is a loadscreens.2da file, but I don't *think* that the lines I used are contentious.  If they are, I can always fix that later.

[LadyoftheCats]

No, no overrides on those textures and when I tested it with F9, it is lovely and not laggy! With all the custom doors out there, you might not have to worry about those... if you don't want to. We're using Gaonengs, Pasillii, CTP, and I forget the others. Loadscreens are working on my end, but I think our's is messed up and will have to go through those another time.Not a big deal for us if our loadscreens are blank or white.

 

As for the new buildings, I think I prefer just one row of roof windows. But, you do what you feel like doing! You might think you're all finished and then think of something else a year from now! Like interiors! 

 

[Shemsu-Heru]

Estelindis, This tileset is so beautiful, and have so many details. That I can only say, Thank You very much, for doing this!!!

[Estelindis]

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and kind words!  

 

Here is my attempt to incorporate all the suggestions made concerning the tall dormers.  Having done this, I'm going to move on and work on some different groups now, as I'm a little tired of this group.  However, if anyone wants to recommend improvements, please still do so.  I'll come back to them later, when I have a bit more distance and am able to assess the group a bit more neutrally, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

[_six]

Hm. I think you'd do well to replace the wood textures. There's something a bit too rustic log cabin about them to me, I like to think elves would keep their buildings a little cleaner, or maybe paint them white or pale greenish?

[Estelindis]

Hm. I think you'd do well to replace the wood textures. There's something a bit too rustic log cabin about them to me, I like to think elves would keep their buildings a little cleaner, or maybe paint them white or pale greenish?

 

Several people have pointed out the main wood texture as a weakness, yes.  I'm still thinking about what to replace it with.  In terms of changing the colour entirely, that's always a possibility, though I was thinking that making it white would be better in a total reskin of the set, in which the branches/bark of the trees would be white and the leaves pure gold, like Lothlorien.

[_six]

Something I found that's similar in construction style to the existing wall texture but a bit fancier looking http://cgtextures.co...0gv0g9j48r9ue92

 

if that's any inspiration

[rjshae]

Several people have pointed out the main wood texture as a weakness, yes.  I'm still thinking about what to replace it with.  In terms of changing the colour entirely, that's always a possibility, though I was thinking that making it white would be better in a total reskin of the set, in which the branches/bark of the trees would be white and the leaves pure gold, like Lothlorien.

 

Most of the woodwork looks fine to me--the trim, columns, frames, and decorations all look good. The surface of the upper deck looks like it could do with a remapping though; the radial borders seem a bit untidy. (Not sure if it matters though, if it can't be seen from ground level.) Other than that, perhaps the borders on the vertical wall slats are bit too broad and contrasting with the middle of the boards? Elven woodwork I'd expect to be tight fitting and nicely arrayed hardwood, almost like marquetry. But the current look works too.

[Jedijax]

I find these new screenies to show a perfect concept. We've all been liking the tileset for some time now, but the way you tackled the rooftops and windows tied it all together. The project has evolved steadily, and while I certainly thought it was a good idea, your choices over the months have turned it into a beautiful sight. Sure, there's details here and there that can be polished, but I think the overall style and intention have found the mark.

[Estelindis]

I decided to make a couple of gazebo groups, basing their roofs on the roofs of some existing groups in order to keep things consistent.  However, taking a look at the 2x1 gazebo, I realised it would be better to make it a bare-bones crosser, as this still uses a budget of just two tiles, but allows people to make gazebos as long as they like.  Even when I try to make groups, I end up making crossers!  

 

2x2 Gazebo

 

Gazebo crosser, two tiles long

 

Gazebo crosser, three tiles long

[rjshae]

Here's something that's on my to-do list: a dovecote.

 

As a suggestion, having an elven equivalent might make a nice addition to your set. Basically it's a small, (usually) round building with a roof top that has openings to accommodate pigeons (or equivalent birds). As these were mostly build by the well-to-do, some of them could get pretty elaborate. It seems like something that elves might build.

 

For example:

[Estelindis]

Excellent idea, rjshae!  Thanks for the suggestion.  

[Carcerian]

Reminds me a lot of the steampunk game Arcanum:

 

 

They definitely had some of the prettiest elven cities...

 

 

 

 

 

 

With some interesting interiors...

 

 

With no underdark, Dark Elves lived in dead trees, of course...

 

 

 

 

There is even a sort of Spiritual Successor in the form of a Kickstarter sequel "Pillars of Eternity"

 

[Wall3T]

those are probably the best screenshots of a tree city in a long time. they just dont make like they used to anymore...

[Estelindis]

I thought I should try making something a bit like Carcerian's pictures: some round platforms, supported by a large tree.  This took way longer than I ever thought it would!    The version I've just mostly finished is plain, but I intend to add another version later, with some buildings on the platforms.

 

However, I am having a problem with this group.  It doesn't paint down properly - and, when I try to paint it, the toolset locks up and freezes.  I'm not sure what I'm missing, which is embarrassing, because I thought that I had tilesets fairly well sussed out at this stage!  I'd love to get some suggestions from people.

 

The group is 3x3.  It's supposed to paint on High Forest, with the top of the top-middle tile connecting to the Walkway crosser.  As best as I can see, it's set up properly for this in the Set file, but there must be something I'm missing.  The strange thing is, some of the tiles in the group do paint down when I try to paint the group, just not all of them.  The tiles that paint are w01_04, 07, 08 and 09.  

 

Here are some pictures of the central tile of the group, taken from NWN Explorer, as well as the error message when I try to paint down the group.  (I put all of the "main" geometry into the central tile.  The other tiles only have the low tree canopy, walkmesh, and the usual dummies.)  I have also uploaded the latest version of the hakpak to my OneDrive, if people want to check out the set file and/or models.  Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

 

 

 

[Pstemarie]

I ran the tiles through CM3 which did some minor cleanup and fixes. Then I loaded the group in 3DS Max and found the issue. when the group loads the walkmesh gets destroyed...

 

This first shot is the tiles after CM3 was used on them. You'll see that several of the walkmeshes are distorted.

 

 

This is a picture of your raw tiles in 3DS Max. You'll see the same walkmesh scattering and some of the walkmeshes look like they have faces pointing down or lying under other faces.

 

 

So, I'd say its definitely a walkmesh issue. With the faces of the walkmesh positioned off tile, the toolset is trying to paint them over adjacent tiles that already have walkmeshes. Thus, the toolset crashes. 

[_six]

Heh, that's one familiar looking error message. Walkmesh - always walkmesh.

 

Still, group looks amaze!

[Estelindis]

PSM, that is some fairly tragic walkmesh!    Thanks a million for identifying the issue.  I really never thought that would be the problem, because I was careful about the pivots and positions before exporting, but no doubt when I reimport the tiles the problem will become all too apparent!

 

Thanks for the compliment, Six.  

[Michael DarkAngel]

First off, you do beautiful work!

 

That type of "explosion of meshes" typically means a "Reset-X-Forms" was needed prior to export.  Now I know you're a vet at this and you've probably already done that.  So I'll move on to my next assumption. that this was caused by mass export.  Try exporting each tile individually, by moving each tile to center point 0,0 and performing a "Reset-X-Form" prior to export.

 

If neither of the above is a correct assumption of your workflow, I'm sad to say that I'm out of advice

 

MDA