160 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

JSlither wrote...

All power corrupts. Sword master, high ranking officer, noble, crime lord, king, mage whatever. Blood magic is no different. A demon cannot outright possess someone. You have to let them in. Either knowingly like Anders or by being tricked. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Blood magic is not the Force. Blood mages are not Psykers.

But magic and abominations have the potential to do a lot more harm than a guy with a sword or a group of bandits.

And it only needs one foolish mage making the wrong deal or a mage with nothing left to lose to let a demon possess him/her and create a big problem.

But on topic: I think there is more to blood magic that requires 'fresh blood' either from yourself or from a doner so that keeping store blood wouldn't work for blood magic.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 09 décembre 2013 - 03:43 .

[Inprea]

sandalisthemaker wrote...
I really don't think they store blood long term. At least I've never heard it mentioned anywhere. Except phylacteries, but those are small vials, and I think that magic is involved in the creation and storage of phylacteries because blood eventually putrifies unless frozen. The chambers where phylacteries are kept are never described as being cold.

We haven't heard of every type of magic that may exist in the dragon age universe either. Even if they don't store blood long term now that doesn't mean they couldn't. If someoen already knew how we wouldn't neeed to research it would we? At least it seems like something that would be worth researching to me.

As for anyone who considers this evil. I'm thinking of resource management not ethics.Though I believe most slaves would prefer bleading a little over having their hands bound, their stomachs cut open and their internals allowed to fall out to maximize the pain and potency of the collected blood.

Oh side note. There is actually some grounds for being able to store blood at least short term. Remember Fenris's loyaly mission? They were butchering the slaves in advance so they blood would be readily available. At the very least it seems the blood retains its potence for several hours. That could be a starting point to expand it to weeks or months perhaps even years.

Modifié par Inprea, 09 décembre 2013 - 03:52 .

[Treacherous J Slither]

Jestina wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

JSlither wrote...
Honestly I don't see why any mage would NOT be a blood mage. The benefits far outweigh the risks seeing as how the only real risk is being found out and possibly killed by Templars.

Power corrupts, plus using blood magic makes a mage even more suseptable to demonic possesion than regular mages.

The risk is addiction and eventually total corruption. Skimming over the history of Thedas, blood magic practice appears to be responsible for just about every major catastrophe.

And this from the codex....
[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">"Just as treacherous, blood magic allows the ] to be opened completely so that [/color]demons may physically pass through it into our world."

Be neat if something like that were implemented in the game. Say...a certain percentage chance of hostile demons showing up if you cast blood magic.

Blood magic is not a narcotic. Every single blood mage that chooses to harm an innocent is no different from a mundane that chooses to do the same. There can be a myriad of reasons for someone to make that decision but the decision was theirs. Blood magic doesn't make anyone evil.

Blood magic can be used to tear the Veil but simply using it doesn't rip it open completely on it's own. All negative energy weakens the Veil. Some rogue slitting a rich merchants throat in the night weakens the Veil. As does a battle between mercenary companies or some guy smacking his wife around. All of these things happen far more often than a blood mage casting a spell.

[sandalisthemaker]

^ Casual blood magic should never be justified.

[thats1evildude]

On the other hand, Jslither, why does your average person really need blood magic?

[Medhia Nox]

At the very least - blood magic is mentally unhealthy. At it's worst, it's twirly mustache evil.

[SgtSteel91]

thats1evildude wrote...

On the other hand, Jslither, why does your average person really need blood magic?

Well before blood magic was used to hemmorage the blood of others as well as control people, blood magic was used to power up other spells. Example, Merrill used blood magic to power up a healing spell used to cleanse a shard of an Eluvian of the taint.

[sandalisthemaker]

Medhia Nox wrote...

At the very least - blood magic is mentally unhealthy. At it's worst, it's twirly mustache evil.

For once we can agree, Qunari.

[Rolling Flame]

Inprea wrote...

Oh side note. There is actually some grounds for being able to store blood at least short term. Remember Fenris's loyaly mission? They were butchering the slaves in advance so they blood would be readily available. At the very least it seems the blood retains its potence for several hours. That could be a starting point to expand it to weeks or months perhaps even years.

Perhaps in that instance, Hadriana was hoping to rely on the volume of blood, enabling her able to cast compartively weaker spells at a faster rate instead of stronger abilities that require the pain factor.

Funnily enough, she (or any of the other mages with her, for that matter) doesn't actually end up using Blood Magic in her fight, despite the preparations.

[Inprea]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Inprea wrote...

Oh side note. There is actually some grounds for being able to store blood at least short term. Remember Fenris's loyaly mission? They were butchering the slaves in advance so they blood would be readily available. At the very least it seems the blood retains its potence for several hours. That could be a starting point to expand it to weeks or months perhaps even years.

Perhaps in that instance, Hadriana was hoping to rely on the volume of blood, enabling her able to cast compartively weaker spells at a faster rate instead of stronger abilities that require the pain factor.

Funnily enough, she (or any of the other mages with her, for that matter) doesn't actually end up using Blood Magic in her fight, despite the preparations.

Wouldn't the summoning of spirits to fight alongside of her be considered blood magic?

[sandalisthemaker]

Inprea wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Inprea wrote...

Oh side note. There is actually some grounds for being able to store blood at least short term. Remember Fenris's loyaly mission? They were butchering the slaves in advance so they blood would be readily available. At the very least it seems the blood retains its potence for several hours. That could be a starting point to expand it to weeks or months perhaps even years.

Perhaps in that instance, Hadriana was hoping to rely on the volume of blood, enabling her able to cast compartively weaker spells at a faster rate instead of stronger abilities that require the pain factor.

Funnily enough, she (or any of the other mages with her, for that matter) doesn't actually end up using Blood Magic in her fight, despite the preparations.

Wouldn't the summoning of spirits to fight alongside of her be considered blood magic?

Yes.
Plus, she could have been using blood magic to fuel her normal spells, (casting from HP)

[SerTabris]

Does it matter how the person feels about the pain? Because I'm thinking that a blood mage/masochist partnership might work out.

[thats1evildude]

Sure, there are exceptional circumstances where blood magic is necessary. The Wardens use it. Merrill used it to cleanse the eluvian. Malcolm used it to keep Corypheus imprisoned.

But aside from these rare examples, what does your average law-abiding mage need it? It's powerful, but is power in and of itself worth risking your life and potentially your soul?

[Treacherous J Slither]

Inprea wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
This is what Tevinter magisters do with their elven slaves.
They cut them up to test their spells, or to secretly cast spells on other magisters, or to magically protect themselves from other magisters. Then the slave heals. Then they get cut up again. 
There is an exerpt in World of Thedas where an elf leaving Tevinter describes that he was cut repeatedly by his master.

It's good to know they can at least be economical whenever it comes to their abuses rather then killing the slave every time. I still wonder about long term storage of the blood of course. Now I don't mean simply dumping it into a jug or the sort.

I wonder if a meat doll could be developed like the unravaler. Except of course it would be entirely immobile and its only purpose would be to set there and store blood for future use perhaps using a bit of it to survive. Plus early versions should be limited in size and contained. Something small enough to be flash fried with a fire blast if it began to move or grow.

^This is actually a terrific idea. A virtually never ending source of blood magic fuel. Flesh golems have incredibly high health and even if the blood mage went overboard and killed the thing, there's always that resurrection spell from the Spirit school...

Now that I think about, how the **** did Tevinter lose to Andraste? How are the Qunari stalemating them? They should still be the most powerful force on Thedas. Who can stand against a country full of immoral blood mages?

Modifié par JSlither, 09 décembre 2013 - 04:11 .

[Jestina]

JSlither wrote...
Blood magic is not a narcotic. Every single blood mage that chooses to harm an innocent is no different from a mundane that chooses to do the same. There can be a myriad of reasons for someone to make that decision but the decision was theirs. Blood magic doesn't make anyone evil.

All that info is from actual game lore. The Tevinters used blood magic to conquer Thedas and destroy the Elven civilization, forcing them into slavery. Also in lore is the mentioning of Tevinter blood mages causing the first blight.

[Inprea]

thats1evildude wrote...

Sure, there are exceptional circumstances where blood magic is necessary. The Wardens use it. Merrill used it to cleanse the eluvian. Malcolm used it to keep Corypheus imprisoned.

But aside from these rare examples, what does your average law-abiding mage need it? It's powerful, but is power in and of itself worth risking your life and potentially your soul?

Could be several reasons. They're a healer and there has recently been a bad fire or perhaps the fire is going on right now. The mage knows how to use elemental magic ice but they don't have the lyrium or the raw power themselves to stop the flames. So they dip into blood magic to create a frost storm powerful enough to stop the fire. That or perhaps they have more people to heal then they can heal upon their own and they have no lyrium potions.

The mage could ask for healthy uninjured people to offer a little blood so they can have enough power to heal those with critical injuries.

I'd risk my own life if my choices were use a little of my blood to fuel the magic or even a lot of it or watch ten people die from third degree burns.

[DRTJR]

JSlither wrote...

Inprea wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
This is what Tevinter magisters do with their elven slaves.
They cut them up to test their spells, or to secretly cast spells on other magisters, or to magically protect themselves from other magisters. Then the slave heals. Then they get cut up again. 
There is an exerpt in World of Thedas where an elf leaving Tevinter describes that he was cut repeatedly by his master.

It's good to know they can at least be economical whenever it comes to their abuses rather then killing the slave every time. I still wonder about long term storage of the blood of course. Now I don't mean simply dumping it into a jug or the sort.

I wonder if a meat doll could be developed like the unravaler. Except of course it would be entirely immobile and its only purpose would be to set there and store blood for future use perhaps using a bit of it to survive. Plus early versions should be limited in size and contained. Something small enough to be flash fried with a fire blast if it began to move or grow.

^This is actually a terrific idea. A virtually never ending source of blood magic fuel. Flesh golems have incredibly high health and even if the blood mage went overboard and killed the thing, there's always that resurrection spell from the Spirit school...

Now that I think about, how the **** did Tevinter lose to Andraste? How are the Qunari stalemating them? They should still be the most powerful force on Thedas. Who can stand against a country full of immoral blood mages?

The Qunari
could be so trained that they don't feel pain thus Blood magic isn't as
effective. Although most of the powerful Magisters where busy rebuilding after
the first blight to fight a rebellion

[Treacherous J Slither]

thats1evildude wrote...

On the other hand, Jslither, why does your average person really need blood magic?

Your average person? Or your average mage?

The mage needs it to defend themselves from the Templars that can shut down mana based magic and render the mage powerless. If you desire your life and your freedom, practice blood magic.

Other than that it's just a way to power up spells and an alternate source of fuel if your mana is low.

[sandalisthemaker]

DRTJR wrote...
The Qunari
could be so trained that they don't feel pain thus Blood magic isn't as
effective. Although most of the powerful Magisters where busy rebuilding after
the first blight to fight a rebellion

As much as I'd like to think that Qunari are mindless automatons, I'm pretty sure they feel pain.

[SgtSteel91]

thats1evildude wrote...

Sure, there are exceptional circumstances where blood magic is necessary. The Wardens use it. Merrill used it to cleanse the eluvian. Malcolm used it to keep Corypheus imprisoned.

But aside from these rare examples, what does your average law-abiding mage need it? It's powerful, but is power in and of itself worth risking your life and potentially your soul?

Making your foe's blood hemmorage is pretty metal and it's just as messed up as burning them alive.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 09 décembre 2013 - 04:20 .

[Inprea]

JSlither wrote..

^This is actually a terrific idea. A virtually never ending source of blood magic fuel. Flesh golems have incredibly high health and even if the blood mage went overboard and killed the thing, there's always that resurrection spell from the Spirit school...

Now that I think about, how the **** did Tevinter lose to Andraste? How are the Qunari stalemating them? They should still be the most powerful force on Thedas. Who can stand against a country full of immoral blood mages?

Thanks. It is a little strange that the imperium could sink a city of elven mages beneath the earth using blood magic but can't sink an island. I don't see why they can't just drown the Qunari and their entire island with them.

[DRTJR]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

DRTJR wrote...
The Qunari
could be so trained that they don't feel pain thus Blood magic isn't as
effective. Although most of the powerful Magisters where busy rebuilding after
the first blight to fight a rebellion

As much as I'd like to think that Qunari are mindless automatons, I'm pretty sure they feel pain.

I am shure they would/do but you and I could in theory train our body to not feel pain like these guys.

If they can do it I'm sure the Qunari can do it. 

[thats1evildude]

That assumes the mage lived in a community where they were openly accepting of a blood mage, which is not the case in most of Thedas.

And what if the only way to save those people was to kill someone?

[sandalisthemaker]

DRTJR wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

DRTJR wrote...
The Qunari
could be so trained that they don't feel pain thus Blood magic isn't as
effective. Although most of the powerful Magisters where busy rebuilding after
the first blight to fight a rebellion

As much as I'd like to think that Qunari are mindless automatons, I'm pretty sure they feel pain.

I am shure they would/do but you and I could in theory train our body to not feel pain like these guys.

If they can do it I'm sure the Qunari can do it. 

That image is fascinating. Do you have any details on it?

[Treacherous J Slither]

Jestina wrote...

JSlither wrote...
Blood magic is not a narcotic. Every single blood mage that chooses to harm an innocent is no different from a mundane that chooses to do the same. There can be a myriad of reasons for someone to make that decision but the decision was theirs. Blood magic doesn't make anyone evil.

All that info is from actual game lore. The Tevinters used blood magic to conquer Thedas and destroy the Elven civilization, forcing them into slavery. Also in lore is the mentioning of Tevinter blood mages causing the first blight.

I understand what the Tevinters have done. I've played the game too. Nowhere however is there any evidence that suggests blood magic made these people do what they have done. They made these decisions themselves.

Mundanes do many horrible things in Dragon Age as well as mages. More so even. Arl Howe is quite evil and yet not a blood mage. The Chantry led an Exalted March against the elves who were simply minding their own business. Loghain instigated a civil war. The list goes on and on. People can do wrong things. Mage or mundane, the person is to blame.