190 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Tevinter cares little for the people and are willing to trample them beneath their feet. And I disagree with the whole "automaton" thing. Their logic is that, from the moment you're born, you continuing to exist is you ALWAYS making the most important choice.

Which is a sentiment I agree with, particularly how it goes into how people should make the most of their existence for the betterment of the people. They don't remove free will (well, save through qamek, but I'm hesitant to take the word of outsiders of Qunari culture on its effects just yet) but simply believe that free will should be used in the best way possible.

I consider the entire society one large family because of how Sten refers to his comrades as his brothers, and the villagers consider their missing friends family. I believe family transcends blood ties.

Where others see monsters, I see people. Where others see an abhorrent ideology, I see something with its own sort of beauty to it.

And again, given the choice between a society that acts like monsters and a society that acts like people, I'll take the latter.

[Br3admax]

Blood ties has nothing to do with it. It's a totalitarian state where there is literally no movement whatsoever. Your father was dung merchant. You shall be a dung merchant. So says Koslun." Not to mention the blatant, "Women should be shopkeepers." And they don't act like people, they act like whatever they are told to act like, and if they don't they're brainwashed into it. The Qunari are just as bad if not worse than Tevinter. And using Sten calling his comrades in arms brothers is not a reflection on the society as a whole. People in the US army will call each other brother, does that make everyone in the US my family? No.

[Nefla]

Both are horrible. I'd wait for them to take each other out and then mop up the loser while they were weak.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

Blood ties has nothing to do with it. It's a totalitarian state where there is literally no movement whatsoever. Your father was dung merchant. You shall be a dung merchant. So says Koslun." Not to mention the blatant, "Women should be shopkeepers." And they don't act like people, they act like whatever they are told to act like, and if they don't they're brainwashed into it. The Qunari are just as bad if not worse than Tevinter. And using Sten calling his comrades in arms brothers is not a reflection on the society as a whole. People in the US army will call each other brother, does that make everyone in the US my family? No.

Um...where on earth is this said? I thought according to Sten you were tested to see which role you'd be more suited for. It had nothing to do with your relatives.

Also Women aren't soldiers that doesn't mean they're just shopkeepers. Isn't one of the Ari people female? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 décembre 2013 - 06:12 .

[TEWR]

Your father was dung merchant. You shall be a dung merchant. So says Koslun."

Not so. As the children are trained by the Tamassrans to see what field they are best at, the child of a dung merchant might show signs that he's a better soldier or inventor then a dung merchant.

And honestly, they would probably not have "Dung Merchant" but just "Merchant".

Plus, they don't even have coin systems in the Qunari lands, IIRC a dev quote correctly.

People in the US army will call each other brother, does that make everyone in the US my family? No.

I used Sten alongside another example, not just Sten in a vacuum. Plus IIRC Tallis says some things along these lines.

Women should be shopkeepers

As well as administrators and a slew of others things. And it's not that they don't believe women can't be capable fighters -- Sten at Redcliffe says in the same situation, every Qunari would fight and the female Qunari are rather strong looking themselves -- but just that they're not the best fighters.

I can't say I agree with that necessarily, but meh. There are women who have fought in history that I consider better then men.

Qunari believe women are smarter and men are stronger, without believing women are an inherently weak group or that men are an inherently dumb group. That's the vibe I got anyway, and I recall a few dev quotes talking about how the army was a man's role to them (while the Ben-Hassrath, who fight, don't live by their blade so aren't restricted into being male only). But I'd have to look at all the dev quotes again.

Look, I'm not denying Qunari society is flawed (and sort-of sexist in a different way then most societies), but I just view them as being better then Tevinter.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 décembre 2013 - 06:17 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Stalin was worse than Hitler. I don't like last Chinese empress though. The whole topic is less informative than my previous lines.

Not to mention that Qun means Ass in our language. So stop using this nonsensical name and change it to something else!

[Ryzaki]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Look, I'm not denying Qunari society is flawed (and sort-of sexist in a different way then most societies), but I just view them as being better then Tevinter.

Yeah being better than Tevinter is sort of like being better than a pedophile. It's not exactly something to be proud of.

[Hellion Rex]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Blood ties has nothing to do with it. It's a totalitarian state where there is literally no movement whatsoever. Your father was dung merchant. You shall be a dung merchant. So says Koslun." Not to mention the blatant, "Women should be shopkeepers." And they don't act like people, they act like whatever they are told to act like, and if they don't they're brainwashed into it. The Qunari are just as bad if not worse than Tevinter. And using Sten calling his comrades in arms brothers is not a reflection on the society as a whole. People in the US army will call each other brother, does that make everyone in the US my family? No.

Um...where on earth is this said? I thought according to Sten you were tested to see which role you'd be more suited for. It had nothing to do with your relatives.

Also Women aren't soldiers that doesn't mean they're just shopkeepers. Isn't one of the Ari people female? 

The Arigena is always female and the Ariqun can be a male or female.

[Ryzaki]

eluvianix wrote...
The Arigena is always female and the Ariqun can be a male or female.

Ah thanks.

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Blood ties has nothing to do with it. It's a totalitarian state where there is literally no movement whatsoever. Your father was dung merchant. You shall be a dung merchant. So says Koslun." Not to mention the blatant, "Women should be shopkeepers." And they don't act like people, they act like whatever they are told to act like, and if they don't they're brainwashed into it. The Qunari are just as bad if not worse than Tevinter. And using Sten calling his comrades in arms brothers is not a reflection on the society as a whole. People in the US army will call each other brother, does that make everyone in the US my family? No.

Um...where on earth is this said? I thought according to Sten you were tested to see which role you'd be more suited for. It had nothing to do with your relatives.

Ah my bad. Could have sworn I heard that somewhere. Oh well.

Also Women aren't soldiers that doesn't mean they're just shopkeepers. Isn't one of the Ari people female? 

I'm just using part of a Sten quote.

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

Ah my bad. Could have sworn I heard that somewhere. Oh well.

Nah Sten tells you about the tests when you see those kids in Denerim (if it triggers. Mine seems to be bugged and doesn't trigger anymore)

I'm just using part of a Sten quote.

Ah. That conversation was hilarious if only for the "Are you flirting with me Sten?" bit.

[Br3admax]

Ryzaki wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Ah my bad. Could have sworn I heard that somewhere. Oh well.

Nah Sten tells you about the tests when you see those kids in Denerim (if it triggers. Mine seems to be bugged and doesn't trigger anymore)

Right. Qunari don't have families in the traditional since. Slip of the tongue. Swing and a miss. 

I'm just using part of a Sten quote.

Ah. That conversation was hilarious if only for the "Are you flirting with me Sten?" bit.

Yes, definitely a chat to remember. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qunari. Rather easy choice for me.

[Lotion Soronarr]

What kind of question is that heretic?

FOR THE IMPERIUM!


...
oh, wait...wrong Imperium.

Purge them both and let the Emperor sort them out.

[Fredward]

Tevinter I'm afraid. You might be unexpectedly exploded like a bloody zit but at least you're allowed to think for yourself, except if you're being mind controlled I suppose. But yeah, I hope Tevinter crush the Qunari.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I believe David Gaider or one of the other devs did say that for a Qunari, they consider their coworkers their family.

[Uccio]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 That would really depend on my character's priorities.


As far as personal, out-of-world likings go, I like the Qunari and a lot of their ideals. Tevinter... not so much.

So you are against birth dictated mage rulers with slavery and blood sacrifices aka Tevinter, but support birth dictated society with slavery and mental re-education camps aka Qun? 

I support Tevinter, atleast they are not hypocrites. The Imperium needs to rise once more.

Modifié par Ukki, 10 décembre 2013 - 07:42 .

[Vit246]

I prefer a never-ending stalemate. Keeps both Tevinter and Qunari busy.

[Asdrubael Vect]

always Tevinter and i support Tal-Vashot

Qunari and Orlais with their Chantry must die

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 10 décembre 2013 - 07:59 .

[BouncyFrag]

I got your back Sten.

[Vulpe]

 Tevinter of course. It is easier to rebel if you are not brainwashed.

Silfren wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

@Silfren: yes, it's an interisting scenario. And I'd say that both personale would try to screw the other. Even if they'd form an alliance, it can't be nothing more than a temporary one.

They would need one hell of a good reason to align with each other due to their long standing hatred.

What came to mind was an alliance of indiduals more so than a true alliance between the groups.  Like, say, I dunno...a Tal-Vashoth posing as a high-ranking Qun official who secretly is in cahoots with a similarly-placed magister, who wants to see the Qun destroyed, even though they don't personally have any love for Tevinter.  More of a long-range scheme.  

Bonus points if Tallis is unwittingly doing that person's dirty work.

Don't mind me.  I just happen to really enjoy narratives with ultra-secret behind-the-scenes political scheming.  Especially if it's actually well written and executed--i.e. not something Dan Brown wrote.

I don't know if they would make and alliance, but I really believe there's something fishy when it comes to The Ariqun and the Ben'Hassrath. Some numbers don't fit. Here's a possible categorization I've made regarding the way the Qunari society is divided. It's a long read, but I recomment you read all of it so that you would understand. It looks like The Ariqun and its Ben'Hassrath aren't playing fair. 

[Ieldra]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...
Tevinter I'm afraid. You might be unexpectedly exploded like a bloody zit but at least you're allowed to think for yourself, except if you're being mind controlled I suppose. But yeah, I hope Tevinter crush the Qunari.

Same here. Living in the Imperium might be unpleasant at times, but living under qunari domination would be intolerable. Before you get brainwashed, that is - after that you'd be happy.

Also this:
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd." - Voltaire
"In uncertainty, find infinity possibility" - an old Orlesian saying.



@JulianWellpit:
Instead of "there's something fishy", I say "the developers didn't make these calculations". May I mention that you appear to have a habit of finding meaning in the almost certainly meaningless?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 décembre 2013 - 09:45 .

[The Elder King]

@Ieldra2: I understand why someone would prefer Tevinter over Qunari (and I really don't care about which side is considered worse here. As I said, it's a coin flip for me). But I wouldn't define living in Tevinter 'unpleasant at times'. A slave preferred to travel all the way from Tevinter to the Dales, in poor condition and high chances of death, rather than remaining as as an experimental slave.
So no, living in Tevinter isn't 'unpleasant at times'. It's hell for a lot of people.

[Ieldra]

hhh89 wrote...
@Ieldra2: I understand why someone would prefer Tevinter over Qunari (and I really don't care about which side is considered worse here. As I said, it's a coin flip for me). But I wouldn't define living in Tevinter 'unpleasant at times'. A slave preferred to travel all the way from Tevinter to the Dales, in poor condition and high chances of death, rather than remaining as as an experimental slave.
So no, living in Tevinter isn't 'unpleasant at times'. It's hell for a lot of people.

I was speaking for a member of the Soporati class (the free non-mages), which appears to be in the majority. The deciding aspects for me are that the Imperium leaves room for individual expression and ambition (at least if you're not a slave) and the attitude towards magic. With regard to the qunari, it's quite possible that the majority of them is content with having their fates decided for them, but the philosophy is nonetheless anathema to me, to say nothing of the oppressive attitude to magic.

My personal philosophy embraces exploration of the unknown, knowledge, ascension. I would prefer a less unpleasant society than the Imperium to represent that, but unfortunately it's the only one on Thedas, and I wouldn't sacrifice those things even for a society where justice and fairness could be absolutely assured, even less for one whose "certainty" results in the brainwashing of dissidents (if they aren't killed outright).

While I'm at it, I would really like to see a society in a Bioware game where these things (exploration of the unknown, knowledge, ascension) aren't tied to evil. I find it insulting, this thematic message that the things I value are intrinsically tied to evil. I've had enough of that with ME's Cerberus.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 décembre 2013 - 10:12 .