207 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

crimzontearz wrote...

Shepard is still painted as the scape goat even if shepard didnt do arrival.
Otherwise. you would have a full blown batarian human war.

in game dialogue contradicts that

the only thing we have to follow is anderson words.
Remember anderson supported you working with cerberus in me2. and was also supportive of shepard in retribution. (wishing for shepard help) So what changed?

And if shepard wasnt scapegoated how did the alliance avoid war with the batarians and why the hell was shepard locked in, in the first place.being scape goated is the best i can come up with, i see no reason why shepard would under lockdown otherwise, Do you?

[KaiserShep]

iakus wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Heck I always saw the reaper plot as just a way to get all these people/aliens together, and then you get to kill the reapers after all the unity stuff is accomplished. Messy or no, I thought it was a great ride.

Well, up until Shepard got treated like a crash test dummy by the writers...

Eh, it's OK. Despite getting beaten pretty hard by Citadel rubble, Shepard got off relatively easy compared to some other characters, and really, he/she's been through worse. Lemme just pour a forty of ryncol for Mordin.

[10K]

KaiserShep wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

let's just agree that both ME2 and ME3 both had their ups and downs. ME2 didn't do enough to prepare Shepard for the Reaper attack, or the plot of ME3. But the crew was entertaining and engaging. And ME3 just ended the series in a big mess. But the combat was fun.

There we go. Nuff said.

Heck I always saw the reaper plot as just a way to get all these people/aliens together, and then you get to kill the reapers after all the unity stuff is accomplished. Messy or no, I thought it was a great ride.

Totally agree, killing reapers was the best central point of ME3. Loved it. Love multiplayer too because it's also focused so much around that point. The plot was meh, but the combat will always be ME3 definite factor.

[Darks1d3]

crimzontearz wrote...

What dialogue? "**** you've done"? Really? Like what, save the galaxy f**kin' TWICE?

Yes and the Batarian Terrorist does not ID you as responsible, and Anderson does not mention it at the beginning, so in my for all I know Arrival might nit gave involved Shepard, the fact the books say otherwise means little to people playing the game and being given a different scenario...you know like the way the choice of councilor was handled in the books

If you're going to mention the choice in councilors, Udina is councilor in ME3 regardless of your choice in ME1. Sure, there's a codex entry explaining why Anderson stepped down. I won't argue that point. But based on the the fact that Udina is the councilor in the book(s) and in ME3, he's the "canon" councilor. Even in a choiced based RPG, the writers will still have the final say since it's their story to write. And yes, the beginning of ME3 doesn't make sense if you don't do Arrival, but that still proves my point.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Shepard doing Arrival instead of anonymous troops was actually canonized in the books.

Bioware says there is no canon, also, it matters little to those whose main import still has no arrival dialogue in ME3

You sincerely believe there's literally "no canon" in Mass Effect?

Hell, you can't even get past the PC's name, Shepard, without a canonized element. 

I'd be more worried about things like Councilor Udina, "Thanks for saving us from Saren and the Reapers", and the rachni queen.  No need for petty, hair-splitting details like the name.

Shepard's name is merely the very early start of canonized elements across the entire series. Nothing "petty" about that: s/he has always been a moderately fixed character with unavoidable things railroading them along.

Mass Effect---and, by extension, Commander Shepard---followed far more set parameters than many here would like to acknowledge. Taking "there is no canon" and "it's your Shepard" so literally is bogus. 

KaiserShep wrote...

heh, male cannon.

[Steelcan]

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

[crimzontearz]

If you're going to mention the choice in councilors, Udina is councilor in ME3 regardless of your choice in ME1. Sure, there's a codex entry explaining why Anderson stepped down. I won't argue that point. But based on the the fact that Udina is the councilor in the book(s) and in ME3, he's the "canon" councilor. Even in a choiced based RPG, the writers will still have the final say since it's their story to write. And yes, the beginning of ME3 doesn't make sense if you don't do Arrival, but that still proves my point.

Right and the game EXPOSES that to me thus while Bioware canonized the fact Udina is councilor in ME3 they never canonized HOW and even if the books state one way or the other it matters very little to players who are exposed to their logically unfolding scenario

That does NOT happen at all for arrival tho does it??

[CynicalShep]

crimzontearz wrote...

What dialogue? "**** you've done"? Really? Like what, save the galaxy f**kin' TWICE?

Yes and the Batarian Terrorist does not ID you as responsible, and Anderson does not mention it at the beginning, so in my for all I know Arrival might nit gave involved Shepard, the fact the books say otherwise means little to people playing the game and being given a different scenario...you know like the way the choice of councilor was handled in the books

So how and why does the Alliance arrest and detain a spectre who saved the galaxy twice and didn't blow up a star system?

[The Night Mammoth]

CynicalShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

What dialogue? "**** you've done"? Really? Like what, save the galaxy f**kin' TWICE?

Yes and the Batarian Terrorist does not ID you as responsible, and Anderson does not mention it at the beginning, so in my for all I know Arrival might nit gave involved Shepard, the fact the books say otherwise means little to people playing the game and being given a different scenario...you know like the way the choice of councilor was handled in the books

So how and why does the Alliance arrest and detain a spectre who saved the galaxy twice and didn't blow up a star system?

So that Shepard's on Earth in preparation for ME3's opening sequence, six months pass so the Reapers have time to arrive, and the squad is split up and sent away around the galaxy so they can cameo later on.

Oh, you were looking for a logical, narritve reason? Cerberus involvement. Shepard and Cerberus's noble intentions don't exactly matter, since Cerberus are still terrorists. 

I don't think Shepard should have let themselves get arrested or agree to stay if they knew they'd be sitting around on Earth for six months, but I can understand why they'd be arrested or taken in by the Alliance at least at first. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 10 décembre 2013 - 05:05 .

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Shepard's name is merely the very early start of canonized elements across the entire series. Nothing "petty" about that: s/he has always been a moderately fixed character with unavoidable things railroading them along.

Mass Effect---and, by extension, Commander Shepard---followed far more set parameters than many here would like to acknowledge. Taking "there is no canon" and "it's your Shepard" so literally is bogus. 

I didn't choose my name.  But  the name doesn't canonize who I am.  It's just what people call me.  The same probably applies to you and most others here.

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

I partially agree with this, even if "practicaly nothing" is a bit extreme.  

Despite having to follow along with a canonical path, and despite operating more as a mouthpiece for humanity than merely the Alliance, Shepard's "resistance" to the scenario should have been better realized through optional dialogue. 

[Erez Kristal]

knucks360 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

....reasons

Pretty much...

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

I partially agree with this, even if "practicaly nothing" is a bit extreme.  

Despite having to follow along with a canonical path, and despite operating more as a mouthpiece for humanity than merely the Alliance, Shepard's "resistance" to the scenario should have been better realized through optional dialogue. 

In ME3 the Alliance is humanity, you are either with them or indoctrinated

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Shepard's name is merely the very early start of canonized elements across the entire series. Nothing "petty" about that: s/he has always been a moderately fixed character with unavoidable things railroading them along.

Mass Effect---and, by extension, Commander Shepard---followed far more set parameters than many here would like to acknowledge. Taking "there is no canon" and "it's your Shepard" so literally is bogus. 

I didn't choose my name.  But  the name doesn't canonize who I am.  It's just what people call me.  The same probably applies to you and most others here.

Actually, it kind of does, but what you do with your name and the experiences that come along is on you.

There isn't a PC who isn't a "Commander Shepard" and all that entails, though. 

[Erez Kristal]

CynicalShep wrote...



So how and why does the Alliance arrest and detain a spectre who saved the galaxy twice and didn't blow up a star system?

For messing with a soldier under his command...
http://news.bbc.co.u...cas/2760459.stm

You really believed that would come back to bite you in the ass, uh?

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

I partially agree with this, even if "practicaly nothing" is a bit extreme.  

Despite having to follow along with a canonical path, and despite operating more as a mouthpiece for humanity than merely the Alliance, Shepard's "resistance" to the scenario should have been better realized through optional dialogue. 

In ME3 the Alliance is humanity, you are either with them or indoctrinated

Essentially, yeah.  That's the way the story plays out. 

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

I partially agree with this, even if "practicaly nothing" is a bit extreme.  

Despite having to follow along with a canonical path, and despite operating more as a mouthpiece for humanity than merely the Alliance, Shepard's "resistance" to the scenario should have been better realized through optional dialogue. 

In ME3 the Alliance is humanity, you are either with them or indoctrinated

Essentially, yeah.  That's the way the story plays out. 

And it sucks, royally

I'm not sure if there ever were plans to let Shepard be himself and they just had to force him into that role because of time/budget or if they just thought everyone would be ok with it

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

There is some aspects that have to be railroaded in order for the plot to work, but things like motivation, how to fulfill the end goal, etc... should be left up to the player if at all possible.

Having all Shepards suddenly turn into an Alliance Mouthpiece is breaking from prior established characterization for many Shepards and should have been avoided.

But apparently the dialogue wheel had to be cut down to practically nothing...because

I partially agree with this, even if "practicaly nothing" is a bit extreme.  

Despite having to follow along with a canonical path, and despite operating more as a mouthpiece for humanity than merely the Alliance, Shepard's "resistance" to the scenario should have been better realized through optional dialogue. 

In ME3 the Alliance is humanity, you are either with them or indoctrinated

Essentially, yeah.  That's the way the story plays out. 

And it sucks, royally

I'm not sure if there ever were plans to let Shepard be himself and they just had to force him into that role because of time/budget or if they just thought everyone would be ok with it

Meh.  "These are dark days".

If you mean to side with Cerberus or the Alliance, probably not. 

[Seboist]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

What dialogue? "**** you've done"? Really? Like what, save the galaxy f**kin' TWICE?

Yes and the Batarian Terrorist does not ID you as responsible, and Anderson does not mention it at the beginning, so in my for all I know Arrival might nit gave involved Shepard, the fact the books say otherwise means little to people playing the game and being given a different scenario...you know like the way the choice of councilor was handled in the books

So how and why does the Alliance arrest and detain a spectre who saved the galaxy twice and didn't blow up a star system?

So that Shepard's on Earth in preparation for ME3's opening sequence, six months pass so the Reapers have time to arrive, and the squad is split up and sent away around the galaxy so they can cameo later on.

Oh, you were looking for a logical, narritve reason? Cerberus involvement. Shepard and Cerberus's noble intentions don't exactly matter, since Cerberus are still terrorists. 

I don't think Shepard should have let themselves get arrested or agree to stay if they knew they'd be sitting around on Earth for six months, but I can understand why they'd be arrested or taken in by the Alliance at least at first. 

"Cerberus involvement" doesn't make sense since the council and alliance are fully aware of it during ME2 and do nothing about it. They could've easily arrested him then and there on the citadel.

[Erez Kristal]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

In ME3 the Alliance is humanity, you are either with them or indoctrinated

Essentially, yeah.  That's the way the story plays out. 

And it sucks, royally

I'm not sure if there ever were plans to let Shepard be himself and they just had to force him into that role because of time/budget or if they just thought everyone would be ok with it

The Latter. no clues of the first option during anytime previous to the release of me3 or walters comics.
it seems like walters and the rest of the writers were sure their story was great and still deserve to be called an rp...

Mass effect is a video game with great story. but as a standalone with nothing to do with the other games.

Seboist wrote...

"Cerberus involvement" doesn't make sense since the council and alliance are fully aware of it during ME2 and do nothing about it. They could've easily arrested him then and there on the citadel.

to be fair, only anderson mentions cerberus as the reason for shepard being locked up. we can still assume it was because shepard was scape-goated. anderson doesnt make for the wisest guy in retribution and only survive due to luck and kai-leng big heart.

Modifié par erezike, 10 décembre 2013 - 05:25 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Steelcan wrote...
And it sucks, royally

I'm not sure if there ever were plans to let Shepard be himself and they just had to force him into that role because of time/budget or if they just thought everyone would be ok with it

Seems Shep was essentialy TIM in an earlier plan of the story.
"Veteran BioWare designer Matt Rhodes has posted an array of Mass Effect concept art from throughout the sci-fi trilogy which hints at early ideas for the series' characters and conclusion.

A "very, very early idea for Shepard" was that he would turn to Reaper technology to accomplish his goals and become something akin to Mass Effect 1 villain Saren.

In a cyclical twist and a mirror of the first game's Saren confrontation, Shepard would eventually have been confronted by the new human spectre (Ashley or Kaiden, depending on your Mass Effect 1 choice)."

EDIT:I also remember some article about another versios were Cerberus did help you out albiet for their own reasons and you had to pick between siding with them and the alliance through out the campaign but I can't remember where I read that.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 10 décembre 2013 - 05:26 .

[dreamgazer]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
And it sucks, royally

I'm not sure if there ever were plans to let Shepard be himself and they just had to force him into that role because of time/budget or if they just thought everyone would be ok with it

Seems Shep was essentialy TIM in an earlier plan of the story.
"Veteran BioWare designer Matt Rhodes has posted an array of Mass Effect concept art from throughout the sci-fi trilogy which hints at early ideas for the series' characters and conclusion.

A "very, very early idea for Shepard" was that he would turn to Reaper technology to accomplish his goals and become something akin to Mass Effect 1 villain Saren.

In a cyclical twist and a mirror of the first game's Saren confrontation, Shepard would eventually have been confronted by the new human spectre (Ashley or Kaiden, depending on your Mass Effect 1 choice)."

Talk about railroading.