349 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

Angrywolves is right about Sega owning the license. It's a shame we're unlikely to see an AP sequel anytime soon, given its poor sales.

[Seagloom]

I'm so glad they released Space Channel 5: Part Two. Now if only we could get the original. A shame they couldn't keep Crazy Taxi's original music. I refuse to buy that game without the old soundtrack. >.<

[sickpixie]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I liked it better when Obsidian was making its own stuff instead of BioWare's games.

I'd rather have Alpha Protocol 2 than BG 2.0.

You mean Mass Effect with spies?

Everything's derivative of something else.

[Angrywolves]

Bioware was going to do it's own spy game at one point.Schumaker denied EA made them drop it, that was the rumor, said Bioware dropped it because they realized it "wasn't them".
Bioware should be able and willing to make any rpg imo.So I don't buy that reasoning.

Back on topic:How big is this world going to be.As big as thedas or bigger.Do we know.
I got slammed for suggesting dark elves in DAi. Do we know what the races are to be in this game ?

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...
For instance, the game assumes the player wouldn't want to help Isabella recover the Tome and leave Kirkwall. It assumes we want to stay and defend the city, when it would have been just as valid (if not entirely functional from a game perspective) to want to chase and then run away with Isabella, enjoying the life of of riches such a treasure would be worth.  

But Bioware games - and story-driven RPGs in general - always assume this. And it's a brutal sort of rail-roading. It's just that most players roll characters that are totally in line with the boderline fanatical dedication to epic-level heroism that's required, even when the quest is insane and serves no purpose whatsoever.

I suppose my biggest gripe comes from the voiced protagonist, as off-topic as that may seem.

I see these things as conceits to telling a story in DA:O. In DA2, with the paraphrasing/lack of direct control of dialogue or what's being said, I feel this extends to every aspect of the dialogue. With a silent protag, these instances of forced narrative seem like small conceits, sacrificies on the larger altar of narrative coherency. In DA2, I felt the character could never truly be mine, since the character was saying only what Bioware thought I would want the character to say. That gap in ownership made the entire process passive, making these instances of forced narrtive conceits more jarring. 

If any of that makes any lick of sense.

I understand that they wanted to create a setting where the player had to experience a slow descent into madness by an entire city, but it winds up mkaing the other character's descents more the story than Hawke really being much importance to anything, except the guy/gal who kills everything as a way to mop up.

That's what you always are in a Bioware (and really, any isometric) RPG: a machine effectively crafted by nature (or god, or whatever) to kill and murder things. The Warden solves every single problem through massive amounts of killing (and eventually someone at the end maybe deciding that suicidally attacking you isn't the best idea and talking it out). 

Landsmeet? Massive amount of killing leading up to it, 1 on 1 duel to end it. You don't win the throne for Alistair/Anora because you're persuasive, you do it because you can beat an old man into the ground. 

Anvil of the Void? It's murder all the way! If you're with Harrowmont you basically crush skulls in the proving. If you're with Bhelen you murder your way through the deep roads. Then you murder your way through the Carta, and once you're done with that, you super murder your way through every living (and quasi-living, given the darkspawn) thing all the way to the Anvil itself. 

You'd think Bioware was famous for worshipping murder or something! Wait... I seem to remember this one game they did... 


Regardless, not every game needs to hinge on murder, anymore than every fantasy setting needs to be set in medieval Europe. But the DA series has had the ship sail on both fronts now for an IP. So the difference between one game to the next is execution. DA2's execution, that Hawke was a tragic character who was powerless to prevent things, was made extremely forced, simply due to the fact that Hawke was allowed to easily overcome every obstacle and foe that was put in his way by stabbigng it to death... unless the game says "no" in a way that completely segregates gameplay and story.

Hawke could have gone into the Gallows in Act 1 and killed Meredith and Orsino both (and Anders to boot) and saved everyone a fair bit of misery. But he can't, simply because the game forces this powerlessness. At least with the Warden, we are given the conceit that an army is needed to break through the Darkspawn enough to reach the Archdemon. DA2 has no such barriers, other than ones that are artificially put in place, which seem like roadblocks to giving the character agency rather than true obstacles Hawke faces in his struggle.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 décembre 2013 - 02:16 .

[Angrywolves]

yup that's true.
The Greek or is it Shakespearean tragedy stuff didn't motivate me.Still don't understand why it was written that way.I understand Exalted March was suppose to clean it all up, but they meaning Bioware should have realized you can't get to it without making DA2 something people should want to play as a stand alone.And they didn't.

[Fast Jimmy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sorry that it didn't grab my attention until now, then. 

DA2's characters are interesting in that they work and operate with completely their own motivations and agency - Isabella, Merril and Anders are all pretty good examples of this - but there is some real problems with this, as well.

For instance, the game assumes the player wouldn't want to help Isabella recover the Tome and leave Kirkwall. It assumes we want to stay and defend the city, when it would have been just as valid (if not entirely functional from a game perspective) to want to chase and then run away with Isabella, enjoying the life of of riches such a treasure would be worth.

Those assumptions are exactly the same assumptions that are made in every videogame, how you can't stay and become a Dwarven king and shun the Blight, or run away with Zevran, or whatever. You're not allowed to simply because of what the game is focused on. So the problem there is not any new one.

And, as I said with InExile, those barriers felt like logical constraints in DA:O. In order to finish the task the game gives you, you can't run away, or become king, or whatever. BUt they felt forced and contrived in DA2. Hawke can't be pro-active on a serial killer who has the MO of giving lillies... my mother meets some new dude and gets lilies... and, yet, Hawke is forced to durp through the situation. You can't refuse to work with Patriece because she is a despicable scum bag, but rather are forced to participate in her activities which pave the way for Kirkwall going crazy (the first time).

The constraints exist in DA:O to finish the game's task - defeating the Blight. The constraints exist in DA2 to finish the game's task - making Hawke fail. I'll give you a guess as to which set of constraints are going to be received poorly if they are not executed FLAWLESSLY.

But, in all of these cases, there is no choice ever presented. There are variable outcomes based on the companions approval levels, but the player never makes any sort of official call in many of these events. Which, while a cool concept that our companions would have actions and lives of their owns, winds up making the actions of Hawke seem totally ancillary to those of his companions. Isabella has much more to do with the plot of Act 2 than Hawke does. And Anders' actions in Act 3 drive the narrative there more than any choice by the PC. 

I understand that they wanted to create a setting where the player had to experience a slow descent into madness by an entire city, but it winds up mkaing the other character's descents more the story than Hawke really being much importance to anything, except the guy/gal who kills everything as a way to mop up.

That's the point. Heroes are unrealistic. That ^ is far more (I won't say it definitively is, but simply far more) realistic than Hawke, our Shepard/Warden-level meathead (i.e. grunt, not a leader of what's going on), being a driving force of the plot.

Edit: Stop that, In Exile! You're saying everything I want to say before I can say it.

It's one thing to say "no matter what you do, you lose." It's another to say "you'll do as I tell you and you will also lose." DA:O had constraints, but it also had a remarkable amount of choices and freedom. DA2 had the smallest shred of comparable agency AND it forced you down a path of making you feel powerless. If the game had given me a couple dozen paths with which to hang myself, that would have actually been pretty cool. The fact that, instead, you are told to tread a path that gives little deviation (especially by the shadow cast from DA:O) AND that path happens to lead to a place very few would be happy with is not good. It's, arguably, HORRIBLE. Horrible design and horrible execution. 

Arguably, of course.

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

You don't find out about her getting lilies until she's already dead.

And why are we talking about DA2? I thought this thread was to discuss how terrible Pillars of Eternity is going to be.

It's to talk about how terrible the graphics will be, last I checked.

Which, ironically enough, there is more conversation about the graphics of Pillars of Eternity recently in the Killzone thread, more talk of the Witcher in some of the DA:I forum threads and more talk of Baldur's Gate in The Witcher thread.

It's posting incest. And it's gloriously entertaining.

[sickpixie]

Angrywolves wrote...

Back on topic:How big is this world going to be.As big as thedas or bigger.Do we know.
I got slammed for suggesting dark elves in DAi. Do we know what the races are to be in this game ?

Link to the map: http://eternity.obsi...p-1750x1426.jpg

It won't cover that entire space, so far we know it'll cover Defiance Bay and Twin Elms.

The races are humans, elves, dwarves, orlans (long-eared small furry creatures), aumaua (large and semi-aquatic), and godlike-of-any-race (like the woman with the feathers in the teaser).

There won't be any marauder-races and it's impossible for any of them to have children with the others.

Modifié par sickpixie, 18 décembre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Angrywolves]

Large and semi-aquatic, like my deep ones thread, rotfl
Oh well.
Why should children come into it.Will we see children in the game.Not characters having them necessarily, but running around towns and villages or being carried by their parents hopefully.

Filament said:
And why are we talking about DA2? I thought this thread was to discuss how terrible Pillars of Eternity is going to be.

uh, no it won't be terrible.rolls eyes.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Well, I do understand when people applaud DA2's plot as being ambitious and bold in concept. My problem is that execution is more important than concept. Plus, the game was sold as a rise to power, not a story of being powerLESS. The game was hyped as a action-packed sequel to Origins, so the vast majority of release day buyers were expecting DA:O2, but got a more bare bones game with fundamentally different design and narrative goals which just left many scratching their heads... if not outright beating them against the wall.

To be more on topic, I'm concerned this may happen with PoE as well. That backers and interested gamers are being sold a bill of goods in the form of the nebulous concept of "old school RPG." While I think from the backer updates they are delivering on that front, I'm not entirely sure others will neccessaarily agree when the game is released.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 décembre 2013 - 02:35 .

[Seival]

Brockololly wrote...

Enjoy.

Its amazing. That music, those character portraits, the spell effects, the environments... taking me back to BG2!

An old-school trash.

Even browser games are much better nowadays.

Modifié par Seival, 18 décembre 2013 - 01:51 .

[TheChris92]

simfamSP wrote...

BioWare should write a comedy RPG. I swear it'll sell tons. Think what you will of them; they're a bunch of funny bastards xD

In other words they should make adventure games akin to that of Tim Schäfer! 

[Seagloom]

To me it seems like PoE is being sold less as old school RPG and more BG2 redux, or perhaps Infinity Engine game redux. I'm actually worried PoE will be a bit too much like BG2 for comfort. Obsidian may have bitten off more than they can chew by promising to throw in all these elements players enjoyed in past games.

What I'd personally like to see in PoE is something less ambitious that comes together perfectly. Being an ardent Obsidian fan, I almost certainly would have supported any project they wanted to do. All I want is to see what they are capable of when not underneath the yoke of publishers; and allowed full creative freedom.

Modifié par Seagloom, 18 décembre 2013 - 02:06 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Seival wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Enjoy.

Its amazing. That music, those character portraits, the spell effects, the environments... taking me back to BG2!

An old-school trash.

Even browser games are much better nowadays.

This just strikes me as the video game equivalent of:



Just because there is text the player has to read instead of high graphic fidelity cut scenes does not, inherently, make anything "trash." It just means that is not your preference.

[Eurypterid]

Seival wrote...
An old-school trash.

Even browser games are much better nowadays.

You play those browser games, bro. I prefer the trash.

[Seival]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Seival wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Enjoy.

Its amazing. That music, those character portraits, the spell effects, the environments... taking me back to BG2!

An old-school trash.

Even browser games are much better nowadays.

This just strikes me as the video game equivalent of:



Just because there is text the player has to read instead of high graphic fidelity cut scenes does not, inherently, make anything "trash." It just means that is not your preference.

When I wanna read a book - I read a book.
When I wanna play a game - I choose one from current century.

[Fast Jimmy]

Seival wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Seival wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Enjoy.

Its amazing. That music, those character portraits, the spell effects, the environments... taking me back to BG2!

An old-school trash.

Even browser games are much better nowadays.

This just strikes me as the video game equivalent of:



Just because there is text the player has to read instead of high graphic fidelity cut scenes does not, inherently, make anything "trash." It just means that is not your preference.

When I wanna read a book - I read a book.
When I wanna play a game - I choose one from current century.

You've never played blackjack?