195 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Robosexual wrote...

Necanor wrote...

SilJeff wrote...
As for me, I don't care what anyone else says (TIM and Anderson included), I think Paragon-Control is far more paragon than Destroy. Destroy involves killing an entire race. Control means only shepard's sacrifice.

If the Geth have already been destroyed only EDI dies. I'd rather have one dead robot than a totalitarian police state.

Killing the love of the life of someone who has saved your life countless times, destroying the infastructure and foundations of galactic civilisation that no one knows how to rebuild, and crippling the galaxy to an almost complete standstill.

Or

Sacrificing yourself to control the Reapers.

Yeah, it's a bit more than "one dead robot".

Placing yourself in charge, as a half human half AI hybrid, in control of weapons that were created in the most hideous, blood soaked manner imagineable?  You're right.  It is one HELL of a lot more than "one dead robot" just not necessarily in the way you're thinking.

[trenq]

You should have written the Rannoch arc Deinon.

[DeinonSlayer]

trenq wrote...

You should have written the Rannoch arc Deinon.

Thanks. Already did. 

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 13 décembre 2013 - 04:47 .

[Linkenski]

People saying that "wow I liked how the ending switched the paragon and renegade choices around by mindbucking you." always made me facepalm. It's totally false. Destroy is meant to be renegade because you kill your comrades to obtain your goal.

Modifié par Linkenski, 15 décembre 2013 - 07:36 .

[JamesFaith]

Linkenski wrote...

People saying that "wow I liked how the ending switched the paragon and renegade choices around by mindbucking you." always made me facepalm. It's totally false. Destroy is meant to be renegade because you kill your comrades to obtain your goal.

Only if you accept EDI as living person, not only smart machine, and Geth are alive.

Renegade/paragon is quite subjective here.

[Sir DeLoria]

Linkenski wrote...

People saying that "wow I liked how the ending switched the paragon and renegade choices around by mindbucking you." always made me facepalm. It's totally false. Destroy is meant to be renegade because you kill your comrades to obtain your goal.

I'd rather have one sacrificed sexbot and a free galaxy than an eternal totalitarian police state:P

EDI told me it would sacrifice itself for the cause and I made that promise come true.

Modifié par Necanor, 15 décembre 2013 - 07:43 .

[dreamgazer]

Linkenski wrote...

People saying that "wow I liked how the ending switched the paragon and renegade choices around by mindbucking you." always made me facepalm. It's totally false. Destroy is meant to be renegade because you kill your comrades to obtain your goal.

In Control, you enslave (one could say conspire with) your mile-high, laser-beaming foes in order to authoritatively police the galaxy, becoming the puppet master of ageless death machines.  You're also rolling the dice with Shepard's personality upload, having no knowledge of what this digital self will ultimately decide once they've initiated the process. And that's not even taking the renegade version depicted in the EC into account. 

In Destroy, you give every surviving race actual peace of mind and freedom to determine their own Reaper-free futures by shouldering the burden of being the one who pulled the trigger. 

Far from totally false, sir.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 15 décembre 2013 - 08:34 .

[AlanC9]

What I take away from this sort of thread is usually the incoherence of the P/R distinction.

[Han Shot First]

Linkenski wrote...

People saying that "wow I liked how the ending switched the paragon and renegade choices around by mindbucking you." always made me facepalm. It's totally false. Destroy is meant to be renegade because you kill your comrades to obtain your goal.

If Destroy was meant to be renegade why is Anderson (a paragon) its avatar and why is the low EMS variant only open to players who destroyed the Collector Base (paragon) in Mass Effect 2?

Also if Destroy was meant to be renegade why does Control have TIM (a renegade) as its avatar and why is the low EMS variant only open to players who kept the Collector Base (renegade) in Mass Effect 2?

I think you have it reversed. To me it was fairly clear that Destroy was intended to the paragon choice, regardless of whether or not some players agree with it.

And while Destroy has some fairly large negative consequences, so does Control and Synthesis.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 15 décembre 2013 - 09:43 .

[Village_Idiot]

AlanC9 wrote...

What I take away from this sort of thread is usually the incoherence of the P/R distinction.

Agreed. The Paragon/Renegade system is intrinsically flawed since it's attempting to label subjective decisions with an objective value. One man's Paragon decision could quite easily be reasoned to be Renegade by another.

Moral decisions should be made according to the player and not because the game designates your morality for you.

Modifié par Shadrach 88, 15 décembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[KaiserShep]

I'm content to settle with the idea that these choices are independent of the renegade/paragon system.

[Reorte]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm content to settle with the idea that these choices are independent of the renegade/paragon system.

Agree with that. The posts suggesting that people are being a bit closed-minded by always thinking blue == Paragon when it might be the other way round are themselves still stuck in the mindset of thinking that every choice is Paragon or Renegade.

[dreamgazer]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm content to settle with the idea that these choices are independent of the renegade/paragon system.

Ding, ding, ding.

It ain't difficult to grasp, people: they're all purple. 

(And spare me from whatever color joke you're about to make.)

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 décembre 2013 - 12:39 .

[Deathsaurer]

dreamgazer wrote...

Ding, ding, ding.

It ain't difficult to grasp, people: they're all purple.

Once again I don't understand why anyone would want to ascribe the silly morality system to them. All the endings clearly have their own paragon and renegade elements and this was an intentional design choice. There isn't supposed to be a best or worst, a paragon or renegade. Calling them all purple is actually a really good descriptor. Listen to dreamgazer and let go of that silly red vs blue stuff.

If you're looking to jusify your ending choice doing this then you're doing it wrong. Shepard, no matter the alignment, has never given a crap what the galaxy at large thinks and goes with what they think is right public opinion be dammed.

[Daemul]

Deathsaurer wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Ding, ding, ding.

It ain't difficult to grasp, people: they're all purple.

Once again I don't understand why anyone would want to ascribe the silly morality system to them. All the endings clearly have their own paragon and renegade elements and this was an intentional design choice. There isn't supposed to be a best or worst, a paragon or renegade. Calling them all purple is actually a really good descriptor. Listen to dreamgazer and let go of that silly red vs blue stuff.

If you're looking to jusify your ending choice doing this then you're doing it wrong. Shepard, no matter the alignment, has never given a crap what the galaxy at large thinks and goes with what they think is right public opinion be dammed.

Agreed. It's ridiculous how so many think that if their ending choice was Paragon it would somehow have bulletproof justification, that's not how it works.

[Deathsaurer]

The point that Javik also advocates it is an interesting one. Javik is about as renegade as you can get. A clear indicator that there is no set morality involved in this.

[N7Gold]

Deathsaurer wrote...

The point that Javik also advocates it is an interesting one. Javik is about as renegade as you can get. A clear indicator that there is no set morality involved in this.

"Do not waver. Victory is never won without making difficult choices."

[Deathsaurer]

StreetMagic wrote...

Point is though, when you focus on individual characters, the morality isn't quite clear cut.

What was it that Shepard said to Garrus if you talk him into letting Sidonis live? The line between good and evil blurrs when you're looking at someone you know or something to that effect.