226 réponses à ce sujet

[-Skorpious-]

Angrywolves wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

I thought that was explained by the shipwreck cant swim in heavy armor

This.

Doesn't explain two years of nearly nude Qunari squatting inside of Kirkwall; they had money and access to supplies.  

[MrMrPendragon]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

I thought that was explained by the shipwreck cant swim in heavy armor

This.

Doesn't explain two years of nearly nude Qunari squatting inside of Kirkwall; they had money and access to supplies.  

They like to flaunt their ripped body to strangers. There's your explanation.

[Zatche]

thats1evildude wrote...

Besides, armour in Dragon Age serves a different purpose than RL armour, where it's meant to prevent damage. In DA, armour just reduces damage. And why not? The people in DA are generally made of iron and can suffer being impaled, sliced, set on fire and shot full of arrows without permanent damage. The shirtless qunari are hardly any less protected against attack than the fellows in full plate.

There's also another purpose for armor in the game. Distinction. Different groups are made more identifiable by giving them stylized, unique, and iconic armor. You could argue that this could still be done while keeping practicality, but it's not a big deal to me.

In DAO, so much of the armor looked the same, you couldn't see the difference between Ferelden soldiers, mercenaries, etc. You could tell by context or dialogue, but video games are a visual medium. Why not take advantage of it to better express a faction's culture, style, or (for a lack of a better word) personality?

[Nightdragon8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

mx_keep13 wrote...

I thought that was explained by the shipwreck cant swim in heavy armor

That's what I thought, but they seem to wear the same type of armor here:

because comic books are cannon yes?

[Homer2101]

Climate doesn't dictate armor selection. The European conquistadors did not shed their armor and go around topless when they got to South America, despite local climate. They continued wearing their steel armor, because it made them near-invulnerable to local weapons. Similarly, modern-day soldiers deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan do not replace their body armor with with g-strings, at least off-base, whatever the local temperature. In real life, being horribly uncomfortable is generally better than being dead. That the indigenous people of sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas lacked steel armor is due to several factors; hot weather in itself is not one of them.

In real life, steel breastplates continued to be used by cavalry units almost up until the eve of World War I.

So realistically, as the most technologically-advanced group in Theadas, the Qunari should be wearing good steel armor, not a fabulous contraption of leather belts and steel pieces.

In-game, there are a few plausible explanations. The shipwreck would explain why the Qunari had no armor in the first chapter of Dragon Age 2. But some years pass between then and Chapter 2. By then, presumably the Arishok could have had armor made in Kirkwall, or he could have sent a request home for armor or the money to buy it, or if the location of their shipwreck is known, he could have had the armor raised by magic and such. It is possible that he simply did not expect to have to fight a war, however, and so did not make preparations like acquiring proper armor.

Meta-wise, I assume that the Qunari lack of armor was just part of Bioware's general shift away from realism and towards a JRPG-inspired aesthetic of revealing and relatively impractical outfits. The Qunari are not an outlier in tht regard. Merrill wears mail over apparently bare skin -- which is wrong in all sorts of ways. Bethany has a weird mail/dress thing. Carver and Varrick just wear street clothes, which might make sense when running around on the streets of Kirkwall, but doesn't make sense when exploring the Deep Roads or going to confront a powerful demon.

Mass Effect 2, released about a year before Dragon Age 2, similarly saw a shift away from the relatively practical armors of ME1, and featured cleavage windows (Miranda), scoop necks (Morinth), pasties (Jack), spandex (everyone), and other such. Some say that the real protection is offered by biotic fields, but biotic fields are not failsafe -- if they fail, all of the protection is gone. Realistically, the fields would be supplemented by armor for when something gets through, or at least so that the user does not die to exposure if the fields should fail.

Now, one would be wrong to assume that I dislike Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2. I do not. They are thoroughly enjoyable games. The character outfits tend to be quite pretty, and Varrick has perhaps the most awesome outfit I've seen so far in any game. But they are not practical for combat. 

Modifié par Homer2101, 11 décembre 2013 - 05:21 .

[thats1evildude]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Doesn't explain two years of nearly nude Qunari squatting inside of Kirkwall; they had money and access to supplies.

Well, the qunari couldn't craft their own armour; they're soliders, not blacksmiths. Crafting armour would be outside of their role.

They could employ blacksmiths, but they would be extremely reluctant to do so. First, most of the qunari don't speak the common tongue. Secondly, as soliders, they have zero experience bartering for goods. Third, because the qunari guard their secrets so zealously, they would be hesitant about directing foreigners to make armour for them. Fourth, being reliant on the inferior bas would be seen as distasteful to the qunari.

[MACharlie1]

Bothered? No. Incredibly turned on? Yes.

....did I say that out loud?

[thats1evildude]

Zatche wrote...

There's also another purpose for armor in the game. Distinction. Different groups are made more identifiable by giving them stylized, unique, and iconic armor. You could argue that this could still be done while keeping practicality, but it's not a big deal to me.

In DAO, so much of the armor looked the same, you couldn't see the difference between Ferelden soldiers, mercenaries, etc. You could tell by context or dialogue, but video games are a visual medium. Why not take advantage of it to better express a faction's culture, style, or (for a lack of a better word) personality?

There is also that. There wasn't much distinguishing the different nationalities in Dragon Age; Tevinters looked just like Fereldans.

[Homer2101]

thats1evildude wrote...

Zatche wrote...

There's also another purpose for armor in the game. Distinction. Different groups are made more identifiable by giving them stylized, unique, and iconic armor. You could argue that this could still be done while keeping practicality, but it's not a big deal to me.

In DAO, so much of the armor looked the same, you couldn't see the difference between Ferelden soldiers, mercenaries, etc. You could tell by context or dialogue, but video games are a visual medium. Why not take advantage of it to better express a faction's culture, style, or (for a lack of a better word) personality?

There is also that. There wasn't much distinguishing the different nationalities in Dragon Age; Tevinters looked just like Fereldans.

This could have been accomplished through distinctive armor design, rather than by removing as much armor as possible. I agree that armors in Origins tended to look similar to one another, although there were distinctions in color scheme and heraldry. But armor can be realistic and still have a distinct style. As a real world example,  the wikipedia page for mail has three examples of visually-distinct mail armors, and it's possible to come up with many more if combinations of plate and mail are used. 

[DRTJR]

Homer2101 wrote...

Climate doesn't dictate armor selection. The European conquistadors did not shed their armor and go around topless when they got to South America, despite local climate. They continued wearing their steel armor, because it made them near-invulnerable to local weapons. Similarly, modern-day soldiers deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan do not replace their body armor with with g-strings, at least off-base, whatever the local temperature. In real life, being horribly uncomfortable is generally better than being dead. That the indigenous people of sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas lacked steel armor is due to several factors; hot weather in itself is not one of them.

yes but if a Conquistador is sitting his a safe area like a fort or a camp I doubt he'd wear said armor. Same deal with Par Vollen, it's hot and safe. The Qunari are the only power in that area and it's tropical so it's hot year round.

Homer2101 wrote...
In-game, there are a few plausible explanations. The shipwreck would explain why the Qunari had no armor in the first chapter of Dragon Age 2. But some years pass between then and Chapter 2. By then, presumably the Arishok could have had armor made in Kirkwall, or he could have sent a request home for armor or the money to buy it, or if the location of their shipwreck is known, he could have had the armor raised by magic and such. It is possible that he simply did not expect to have to fight a war, however, and so did not make preparations like acquiring proper armor.

Also could be an effort to seem less threatening by having all the Qunari warriors shirtless, plus the Arishok is there to find the tome of Kusland, that is it, if Isibella found it a week earlier and left it on his face while he was asleep then he probibly would have left there and then. 

[Liyros]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Bothered? No. Incredibly turned on? Yes.

....did I say that out loud?

Ahaahahaa!  Part of me is like, fair is fair no? 

Nah, but they should really put some armor on for battles in my opinion.  Though what they wear during their down-time is their prerogative.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Most of the Qunari we have encoutnered so far are marines. Obviously they aren't going to go around in full plate armor on a boat, since if they fell overboard they would be dead. And once they are on land, and not in a combat situation, why exactly would they put on the uncomfortable armor? So far there is no lore discrepancy as to the Qunari appearance. Marines don't wear a lot of armor for good reasons, and you don't wear full plate armor if you aren't going into battle.

[Dayze]

One of the arguments the last time this got brought up was that their most consistent enemy, Tevinter employs a whole lot of magic that could basically make armor worthless one way or another.

A fire ball aint nice; but a fireball plus a heap of melted liquid raging hot steel on your skin is even less nicer.

But basically as pointed out they had a couple years not to mention the thieves/mercenaries that also could have geared up.

I'm pretty sure this is supposed to be the general portrayal/depiction of the Qunari now.

[Vit246]

Dayze wrote...

One of the arguments the last time this got brought up was that their most consistent enemy, Tevinter employs a whole lot of magic that could basically make armor worthless one way or another.

A fire ball aint nice; but a fireball plus a heap of melted liquid raging hot steel on your skin is even less nicer.

Sigh. Does Tevinter infantry not exist or something? Soldiers with sharp pointy objects?

[Dayze]

Vit246 wrote...

Dayze wrote...

One of the arguments the last time this got brought up was that their most consistent enemy, Tevinter employs a whole lot of magic that could basically make armor worthless one way or another.

A fire ball aint nice; but a fireball plus a heap of melted liquid raging hot steel on your skin is even less nicer.

Sigh. Does Tevinter infantry not exist or something? Soldiers with sharp pointy objects?

Actually if Tevinter military works anything like medieval armies did, I think a lot of soldiers actually used to be nobility back in the day or some such sort of thing.

That being what it is; Tevinter mages essentially being nobility and breeding as much as they want.....many of their soldiers could indeed simply be "lesser nobility" or weaker mages in this case, nephews, nieces etc....

[Vit246]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Most of the Qunari we have encoutnered so far are marines. Obviously they aren't going to go around in full plate armor on a boat, since if they fell overboard they would be dead. And once they are on land, and not in a combat situation, why exactly would they put on the uncomfortable armor? So far there is no lore discrepancy as to the Qunari appearance. Marines don't wear a lot of armor for good reasons, and you don't wear full plate armor if you aren't going into battle.

The Kirkwall Qunari were conveniently shipwrecked so they never got a chance to show off any armor. And full plate is not the only possible freaking armor for Qunari. There could be leather, chainmail, scale, lamellar, whatever. Relatively light armor.

[Vit246]

Dayze wrote...

Vit246 wrote...

Dayze wrote...

One of the arguments the last time this got brought up was that their most consistent enemy, Tevinter employs a whole lot of magic that could basically make armor worthless one way or another.

A fire ball aint nice; but a fireball plus a heap of melted liquid raging hot steel on your skin is even less nicer.

Sigh. Does Tevinter infantry not exist or something? Soldiers with sharp pointy objects?

Actually if Tevinter military works anything like medieval armies did, I think a lot of soldiers actually used to be nobility back in the day or some such sort of thing.

That being what it is; Tevinter mages essentially being nobility and breeding as much as they want.....many of their soldiers could indeed simply be "lesser nobility" or weaker mages in this case, nephews, nieces etc....

I think what I'm trying to say is that the Qunari will eventually have to deal with the standard melee infantry with swords, spears, arrows, and whatnot. Some steel torso armor might go a long way into making that chest area with all those vital organs underneath relatively swordproof.

Modifié par Vit246, 11 décembre 2013 - 06:31 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Vit246 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Most of the Qunari we have encoutnered so far are marines. Obviously they aren't going to go around in full plate armor on a boat, since if they fell overboard they would be dead. And once they are on land, and not in a combat situation, why exactly would they put on the uncomfortable armor? So far there is no lore discrepancy as to the Qunari appearance. Marines don't wear a lot of armor for good reasons, and you don't wear full plate armor if you aren't going into battle.

The Kirkwall Qunari were conveniently shipwrecked so they never got a chance to show off any armor. And full plate is not the only possible freaking armor for Qunari. There could be leather, chainmail, scale, lamellar, whatever. Relatively light armor.

Armor is uncomfortable, you really wouldn't wear it unless combat was about to begin. And even a simple chainmail coat would still make you sink like a rock, and good luck swimming in leather.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 11 décembre 2013 - 06:42 .

[Laughing_Man]

This seems like a clear case of the "Rule-of-Cool", and I can't say that I was thrilled to see it.

[Hellion Rex]

TheRedVipress wrote...

This seems like a clear case of the "Rule-of-Cool", and I can't say that I was thrilled to see it.

You didn't enjoy watching the parade of hot Qunari flesh?

Modifié par eluvianix, 11 décembre 2013 - 06:49 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, the concept art for Dragon Age: Inquisition shows Qunari with armor, so the ones in DA2 were just different or one or more of the reasons given in here already.
 

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 11 décembre 2013 - 06:52 .

[Killdren88]

Perhaps Kirkwall had no armor that could fit them. And I doubt anyone wanted to take their measurements.

Modifié par Killdren88, 11 décembre 2013 - 07:07 .

[Fredward]

Armor is for pansies is why. And maybe they prefer speed in combat over being encased in armour.

[Laughing_Man]

eluvianix wrote...

TheRedVipress wrote...

This seems like a clear case of the "Rule-of-Cool", and I can't say that I was thrilled to see it.

You didn't enjoy watching the parade of hot Qunari flesh?

I don't begrudge anyone of his pleasures in this particular area, nor see a point in arguing what is the meaning of "sexy" or "erotic" - but I don't swing that way, and considering that the Qunari we saw were all males, well, I didn't see anything particularly appealing about that. (I simply didn't notice it in *this* way, but it didn't really bother me.)